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Do you like smoke deflectors?

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Posted by Sara T on Saturday, March 6, 2021 10:40 AM

Overmod wrote:

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RtmE0xCKvik

You can't have too much Alison. 

Invisible is 12:11."

Her voice is great, the song is great. She complains about her 'not-so' friend or lover, but can't break away. That's the old story - she's true, the other is not. That's the way it is - why? I don't know, I read it in the cristal so often, and the proband visiting me doesn't believe me but the one he or she asks me about. So, then I cannot do anything, I have to let them run into their doom. That's hard and everytime it happens I think about no more continuing with it. But I can't really because the reading wouldn't stop. Then again sometimes it happens a proband listens and is prepared and it makes me feel good again. It happens, however I see someone in the suburban railcars or in the underground train, and often it is no fun to get the story, I tell you! I leave the car, I have to. Luckly, over here I can do a lot by bike in the warm months and even in the no-so-warm times.

0S5A0R0A3

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, March 5, 2021 4:15 PM

No sound in version #2 in my part of the United States at least.

So here's something that works

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RtmE0xCKvik

You can't have too much Alison. 

Invisible is 12:11.

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Posted by Juniatha on Friday, March 5, 2021 4:07 PM

"Aw, dammit, I got a YouTube message "The Uploader Has Not Made This Video Available In Your Country."

Firelock & others - try the second link

=J=

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, March 5, 2021 3:55 PM

Juniatha
And here another great song from Allison Moyet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8CeAHfAD2w

Aw, dammit, I got a YouTube message "The Uploader Has Not Made This Video Available In Your Country."

First time I've ever seen that!  I've seen YouTube vids from all over up to now.

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Posted by Juniatha on Friday, March 5, 2021 3:53 PM

Uhm - where are the smoke wings?

Hmm - dunno, guess it's again

Off Topic

sorry - sorry - sorry

Juniatha

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Posted by Juniatha on Friday, March 5, 2021 3:49 PM

Flintlock76

Here you go Sara, I'm lighting up Allison for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG5zDk82Wd0  

 

And here another great song from Allison Moyet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8CeAHfAD2w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQfZ-Vofg10

original and extended remastered version

(oujow-up - now it works - che-che-che!)

and one more (geee - I like this song and the video, it's so positive!

... and it has this rod-planking - you know what? the secret is: they have recorded that from a 52 at biking pace - O-M-G

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsklsxReSe0

Vaya con dios todo el mundo

Juniatha

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Posted by Juniatha on Thursday, March 4, 2021 10:10 PM

The secret is: the smoke wings take up and repeat the canted windows area of the cab, so the engine has it not just in the back but up front, too. Also, the wings are essential when seeing the locomotive more from the front when the wings repeat the canted outer area of the cylinders and reverse it.

=J=

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, March 2, 2021 8:13 PM

Juniatha

Sara,

I put up for you this photo of 012 054 in Münster in the Summer of 1973

Juniatha

 

 

Ah, there we are, back to smoke deflectors!

Now, on that locomotiv  they look like they belong there, in fact, the locomotive wouldn't look quite the same without them.  

So it all depends, doesn't it?  Wink

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Posted by Juniatha on Tuesday, March 2, 2021 5:59 PM

Sara,

I put up for you this photo of 012 054 in Münster in the Summer of 1973

Juniatha

 

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Posted by Juniatha on Sunday, February 28, 2021 9:44 PM

Flintlock

 

this is the same as in my post, only you have it clickable and in mine you have to copy and paste it.

=J=

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, February 28, 2021 1:11 PM

Here you go Sara, I'm lighting up Allison for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG5zDk82Wd0  

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, February 28, 2021 12:20 PM

Sara, the pictures need their own URL for the forum software to display them.

The easiest way is to join one of the free image-hosting sites like Flickr and upload what you want to post there.  This will give you a direct URL which you can then make 'clickable' in a post by using the little 'insert link' button above the post window (it looks like two little chain links).

Many of the sites feature 'tools' that facilitate photo sharing, including the ability to 'embed'.  These can be used to show photos directly without triggering the 'hot linking protection' Kalmbach uses -- you paste the 'embed' link or BBcode directly into your post without using the Kalmbach link or image insert tools.

Ask again if you continue to have problems; we have some experts to assist you in detail.

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Posted by Sara T on Sunday, February 28, 2021 12:11 PM

Oh, I just discovered this:

>>To me, this is what Allison Moyet sings about (and wasn't she a formidable 44 at that time?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG5zDk82Wd0
All cried out<<

This is nice story, very nice.

I have also thought about something like this ...

Thank you for putting it up!

0S5A0R0A3

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Posted by Sara T on Sunday, February 28, 2021 11:39 AM

Juniatha,

Yes I know. I can't put it up. Either I'm not knowing how to do it or the site does not make it.

I try here again (???)

 

No, nothing (and this was a test for me to get it correct!)

 

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Posted by Ulrich on Saturday, February 27, 2021 9:57 AM

The NYC Niagaras were beautiful..

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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, February 26, 2021 5:07 PM

Juniatha

Hi SD70

Ok, I see by your participant's name you might feel differently - but my blood runs cold in view of a beaten diesel, sorry, man.

My name comes from the stuff I get to run at work.  Unfortunately Canadian National no longer rosters any steam power, and hasn't hosted any real steam excursions for the last 20 years. 

What I'd give for a head full of cinders, you must have had a blast!

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Juniatha on Thursday, February 25, 2021 10:02 PM

Quote "Oh well, this is why I don't dwell on the things I haven't done, but remember fondly the things I have  done.  Why be greedy?"

That's a good word! I like it, really think that's how the world should be.

Thank you, W.. uhm Fireflint, uhm Flintlock

Juniatha

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, February 25, 2021 9:39 PM

Juniatha
But then again they had friendly steam crews - they let me drive that engine

Some people have all the luck!  Bang Head

Oh well, this is why I don't dwell on the things I haven't done, but remember fondly the things I have  done.  Why be greedy?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, February 25, 2021 9:36 PM

SD70Dude
It wasn't just the aging steam power that ended up forlorn and filthy, as many North American railroads slipped closer and closer to bankruptcy from the 1950s onward those shiny new diesels saw the washrack less and less often.

'Dude, those pictures you linked immediately reminded me of a line Walter Lord wrote, so powerful it's stuck with me to this day.  About the end of an era:

"The railroads sagged into decrepitude like a Bowery bum."

Says it all, doesn't it?

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Posted by Juniatha on Thursday, February 25, 2021 8:18 PM

Hi SD70

 

Ok, I see by your participant's name you might feel differently - but my blood runs cold in view of a beaten diesel, sorry, man.

Yes, they slipped into bankruptcy - lots could be said about that, let's leave it at that!

Smoke deflectors didn't always work out right: well, they should have made a few simple wind tunnel tests - thats all.

In the 1990s the Polish thought even the bending of the 'Witte' smoke wings was a waste of effort and put on these ugly flat sheet plates - and that on a 52 (then Ty-2 / 42) with a semi-cylindrical tender water tank! Disgusting!

But then again they had friendly steam crews - they let me drive that engine with the ugly smoke wings (Ty-2.87 as I remember), and the driver even let me test the short cut-offs: I went down to 10%, then he noted that the engine had virtually quieted out, no exhaust beat any longer, it just came out smoothly without a sound - yet the fire was good and running was absolutely as good as on the general 'smallest' 25 - 30 % - yet he 'corrected' that quickly.  I also drove the heftier 'bad brother of the 52', the 42 (then Ty-3 / 43) and the Ol-49 - also down to 15 %, the driver chatted with the fireman, didn't care as long as we were proceeding on time, which we did. The brakes could be finely adjusted and I braked on spot with a minimum of modulating brake pressure ... Those were happy days 1990 / 91 / 92 - even though my hair really suffered ...

Juniatha

 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, February 25, 2021 7:05 PM

There is a separate thread for warbirds vs trains (you're welcome).

Apparently some of the North American smoke deflector designs didn't work out as intended, resulting in their removal.  I've read of at least one case where crews believed that a streamlined casing which was supposed to deflect smoke actually resulted in MORE of it ending up in their faces. 

It wasn't just the aging steam power that ended up forlorn and filthy, as many North American railroads slipped closer and closer to bankruptcy from the 1950s onward those shiny new diesels saw the washrack less and less often.

The white staining on the front truck is traction sand:

https://railpictures.net/photo/462144/

Others diesels fell out of favour even sooner:

https://railpictures.net/photo/644135/

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Juniatha on Thursday, February 25, 2021 6:25 PM

Sara,

both your pictures are missing -

mind putting them up again?

=J=

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Posted by Juniatha on Thursday, February 25, 2021 5:27 PM

 

Quote: "Gosh, this has become an eclectic thread branching into music and German fiction!"

Ok, you talk about music that evokes scenes of railroading to you. Well, let's take it one notch further: I'm talking of music that is like it comes from railroading - and what is the very core of railroading, the very center, where the essence of railroading focusses?
Right: the locomotive -
the steam locomotive, that is!
Many an Old Timer has told of the uncanny bond between the engine and him, that he felt what she was doing, if she was fine or desperately fighting to get the job done, how she reacted to what he gave her, it was like he could talk to her when she lost her temper in a wild spin, keep her calm and concentrated when the going got tough. And at a certain point of time, it was not only him talking to her but he would swear she talked to him - they had become a team working together on their time on the road, over the day, through the night - as the schedules asked it.
Now, I have a scene here of a driver and a 44 class three-cylinder Decapod: He had somehow managed to have that same 44 all the time, and finally, no one else had her - they had become a sworn-in team. This partly did happen, it was called planlok system, consisting of two or three crews for an engine, mostly though. Let's pass this detail and assume that guy had this one 44 just for him every day. They got the trains moving like it couldn't be any smoother, he got her to assault the incline, go through the curves, pass the small stations like it was nothing and it always was her and no other.
Then, one day he disappeared, leaving her idle at first. He had gone for further education to drive diesel. She had to feel other hands at the throttle, hands that didn't feel anything, didn't care, while she only yearned of that one hand - his! But he was gone.
Then finally, much later, he came back, wanted back his seat - but she had changed, she wasn't the same anymore, she had become just one other 44 and didn't welcome him back anymore - too much time had passed since those bright days.
To me, this is what Allison Moyet sings about (and wasn't she a formidable 44 at that time?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG5zDk82Wd0

All cried out
There is the vibrating rhythm, as the 44 moved, shoved, rolled ...
... I'm crazy you think? Well, I don't envy your rationalism.
I can be 100% rational when I want to - but I allow myself some dreaming, too at times.

Juniatha

 

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Posted by Juniatha on Thursday, February 25, 2021 2:49 PM

Hi, buddies

 

I noticed that several people say they don't like smoke wings - but then again with engine classes that had them from the beginning, the same people say the engine looks good with them.

 

That sounds like they largely appreciate all engines the way they were built in the beginning and in no improved form: those without smoke wings are better without and those with smoke wings are better with them.

 

This is not a genuine reflection of the aesthetic value of smoke wings but just a preference for the regular appearance of the engine.

Sorry ...

 

As for European engines with their smaller boiler diameter, I believe smoke deflectors are a sine qua non with road engines. In the aftermath of Unification, we Western steam fans had to experience quite an abounding number of Decapods downgraded to 'heating plants' that had their Witte wing torn off. They all looked very poor and lacking. There was a strong feeling of want about them, they were no complete and competent locomotives anymore, they were ghastly remnants of something of no importance, to be thrown away any time.

 

No one looked ok in that shorn state. In certain instances it was horrifying, the extent of neglect was incredible - gruesome! 

 

Although there were a few exeptions, in general the American big steam also went that way at the end with all the encrustations, grime, dirt, and rust about them. One could see they were willingly and purposely run down so they could no longer stand up against the adored and idolized diesel, the need for change from steam to diesel was self-created in this way.

 

Juniatha

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Posted by Sara T on Thursday, February 25, 2021 3:50 AM

Lithonia Operator

This morphed from smoke deflectors to music.

It's only a matter of time until we get to classic warplanes strafing concerts.

 

Ha-ha-ha, chucks, yes.

But ok, why not.

Only, I hope we can then come to some peace tech again ...?

Racing cars? Bicycles?

No: why not model railways?

Ah - there is a special magazine and forum for that.

But there is one for war planes, too.

Well, 05003 finally went to serve in March 1945 - but then the whole madness

was all over!

Sara  05003

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Posted by Sara T on Wednesday, February 24, 2021 5:28 PM

Hello everybody


I'm new in this forum, I am interested in steam locomotives from the aesthetic aspects and the vivid atmosphere they can create. A lot different from the diesel or electric locomotives that are just simply utilitarian tools to transport trains.
Yes, I think smoke deflectors are quite suited to complete a road running loco and give it some aspects of speed and dynamics.
Even the big American steam locomotives seen from a viewpoint sideways behind have a front end that lacks the forward look, the boiler is set back against the lower part and cylinders. With the last models when the large smoke deflectors were put on, the 'elephant ears', this was corrected and these locos look much better from this viewpoint.
On European steam locos with their smaller boilers or more narrow diameter barrels, this situation is even sharper and they do need smoke deflectors.
A special form of these sheets are the German ones that are mounted directly to the boiler sides and do not have the down reaching part. They were used on all DB and DR designs of locos since the 1950s and make an integral part of the boiler front end.
In my view, they look more speed emphasizing and dynamic than the older types of 'elephant ears'. the second have just a vertical front profile, the former leave the front of the locomotive more open and with several visual aspects: cylinders, frames, smokebox front are more visible and play a part in the arrangement of shaping the external character.
As you can see on this photo of DB 012 054 from BW Rheine, seen in Münster in Summer 1973, southern end of the line for steam at that time.

 (there should be a photo of 012 054. I have tried to put it up but I can't.

Sorry.)

 

 

 

I have slightly smoothened the shades and lines because the Rheine locos were quite battered altogether. 012 054 was one of the better ones, was shelved autumn that year and put out of service. If this was because of some defect or not I have no information. The 012 were oilfired three cylinder 4-6-2s and were not fully extended on the 'Emsland line' Münster - Rheine - Lingen - Emden - Nordeich-Mole because the line speed was limited to 110 km/h, 70 mph. Some trains were composed of up to 14 long express cars however, among them the afternoon up D 735 was famed with the steam friends and remained on the schedules of the 012s until the final withdrawal of the last six locos in May 1975.

Sara  05003

 

 

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Saturday, February 20, 2021 3:48 PM

daveklepper

The money came from Holywood up to agout 1960.  The work, however, was done at Bell Labs, AT&T in genral, and its manufacturing arm, Western Electric. Exponential horn drivers, compression drivers, large bass horn enclosures with 15 and 18-inch "woofers," all these came from AT&T and its subsidiaries.  After 1960, with its development of the transistor, the switch to digital sound was actually started in France as early as 1938 with "Pulse-code Modulation" as an alternative to Amplitude Modulation and Frequency Modulation.  In 1955, Bell Labs began working on digital audio to increase capacity of radio and wire links.  Frequency modulation already increased the capacity of a single link to well over a hundred messages, but ditital could raise it to ten thousand.

In 1960 Bell Labs developed a prototype frequency shifter for feedback control of public address systems.  The prototype was analogue, using frequency modulation, but the commercial versions that followed were digital.  (See my entry on the Manfred Shroeder Frequency Shifter and the chance meeting in the PRR Cincinnati Limited eastbound at Horseshoe Curve at www.proaudioencyclopedia.com.)   Then Lexicon and Industrial Research Products both introduced competitive audio delay units to match amplified with live sound in sound reinfrcement systems in 1971, first applied in Philadelphia's Walnut Street Theater and Manhattan's St. Thomas Church Fifth Avenue (the latter landmark sound system still in operation with its KLH 6.5 pew-back loudspeakers after 49 years).  Pretty sure royalties to AT&T were involved.  Then came CDs, with Philips and Deutsche Grammerphone taking the lead in using digital technology and applying it to what is essentially a micro version of the original Edison hill-and-dale mechanical recording and playback, but with optical playback for zero wear.  At the same time, digital control consoles, equalizers, even power amplifiers to the output stage.

From my entry on the audio encyclopedia website;  the referenced JASAarticle on the figure regards the Tanglewood Shed acoustics, not the frequency shifter.

 

 

There is a system to suppress microphone feedback?

You mean to tell me, no more "Is this mic on?" followed by "weeeescreeeeeeech!"

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
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Posted by ShroomZed on Saturday, February 20, 2021 10:10 AM

It really depends on the proportions of the locomotive if I like the addition or not. My aesthetic senses of steam locomotives are tied quite closely to German and South African locomotives so I do quite like the look of large elephant ear blinkers on certain locomotives, it usually adds to their formidable appearance. 

It's weird but I think most American locomotives actually don't look much better with blinkers. The NYC L4s definitely have a more complete appearance with them, but I'd have to think of some other examples. 

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Posted by MMLDelete on Thursday, July 9, 2020 2:04 PM

I don't mind those little ears on the B&M engine. That's a pretty sharp loco, IMO. A brute, too. Purposeful.

The deflectors don't dominate the front end, like on many engines.

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