Maybe you're right, Firelock but I know some garment or another from Big 2 was called a bum freezer.
Fascinating about U-boat crews wearing British battledress. I thought the crews wore mostly coveralls, I guess I need to see "Das Boot" again to be sure.
One thing Arthur Godfey had in common with Captain Eddie, he was quailfied to fly multi-engined commercial aircraft. So was Danny Kaye. John Travolta we know about, I wonder who else?
Firelock-- So then many British battle dress uniforms are laying at the bottom of the Atlantic all over the place. Or at least they were until they became fish food. Truth is stranger than fiction.
The 82nd Airborne parade is remarkable. That depicts a high water mark...terrific stuff!! I know your President has expressed an interest in holding a military parade but has met fierce resistance.
At the end of WWII we up here in Canada had the 3rd largest Navy in the world and now we have essentially bupkis. Dumb. It was a high water mark for us as well. I don't think we have had such widespread decency and common sense since.
When did laying around in mommys basement playing video games at 33 collecting welfare become the norm? Or expressing pride in being illiterate on the Forum?
Also I put forth that at the time of that parade was a high water mark for our Railroads. They did it all and were the ultimate framework of the land, providing services of every kind to everywhere. This was their best ever. Some say it was the roaring 20's but those immediate post war years were magnificent and golden. Never again would the Rock Island, Milwaukee, Pennsy, New York Central and all the others shine as bright as those years.
Firelock-- sent you an email, also Happy Canada Day 151 years and safe travels for the 4th to all in the USA.
You're welcome! You know, I've watched that 82d Airborne parade newsreel at least half a dozen times already, it's just fascinating.
A "bum freezer?" I don't know, this is the first I've heard of that. Of course, since the British Army's battle dress jacket was short and belted at the waist it seems to me they would have called it a "bum freezer" as well, at least well before they apllied that term to the "Ike jacket."
Here's a bit of WW2 trivia I have heard. When the Germans overran France in 1940 they captured large stocks of British battle dress uniforms, all new and perfectly serviceable. The problem was, what to do with them?
The answer? They issued them to U-Boat crews as on-board working uniforms. The concept worked so well they had to make new ones of their own as the British uniforms wore out.
Thansk for those films, Firelock! Didn't the Brits call the Ike jacket a "bum freezer?"
We were talking about Eisenhower jackets? Well, check this out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s90og73p2fo
Isn't THAT something! I saw a clip of this several years back when I was watching a WW2 documentary with Lady Firestorm's mom. "You know, it's a shame" I said. Mom said "What's a shame?"
"Well," I said, "I was just thinking, most of those guys would never look that good again."
"Yes, I know!" she muttered in a low voice.
Lady F was watching too. "Wow! They all look like General Patton!"
She wasn't wrong.
And Eddie Rickenbacker designing his own uniform? In a way, that was a matter of survival. That high collar on American WW1 uniforms was absolute torture for a fighter pilot who had to keep his head turning constantly. So, what Cap'n Eddie and quite a few others did was copy the British officers open-collared blouse, it was a LOT more comfortable.
And the reason for the aviators traditional silk scarf? It kept the pilot's neck from chafing on his uniform collar or flight suit.
Speaking of Cap'n Eddie, want to meet him?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3LRNQfwDyE
If the Big Boy was called the Eisenhower, how long before everyone called it the Ike? Five minutes?
But on the subject of uniforms, there are three that I think look pretty fine, U.S. Naval aviator dress greens (we had a CPO on my ship who looked like a million bucks in that suit,) The R.C.M.P. scarlet jacket with jodhpurs, pistol with lanyard and the Stetson hat. The London bobby uniform with that cool looking helmet is pretty spiffy too. These days, London cops have to wear high-vis vests and various pieces of equipment so the classic look is pretty rare these days. Also the U.S.M.C. dress blues.
And remember, in WW1, Eddie Rickenbacker designed his own duds.
But he DID get a locomotive named after him:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_A4_4496_Dwight_D_Eisenhower
And wasn't there a class of U.S. Army switchers (0-8-0's or 0-6-0's) sent to southeast asia that was known as "Eisenhowers"?
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Interesting story about the Eisenhower jacket. In a nutshell, when Ike went to Europe and saw the British Army's battledress jacket (check pictures of Field Marshall Montgomery for a good example) he said, in so many worlds, "That's cool! I've gotta get me one too!" And as a US Army general officer he had the priveledge of designing his own uniform so he could indulge himself. It wasn't too long before all the US general officers had to have one too, and eventually it trickled down the chain of command to other officers and enlisted men as well. I'll tell you, in my humble opinion it's one of the best looking military jackets ever.
And oddly enough on the other side of the world the same thing happened, although not quite the same way. When the Marines were relieved from the Guadalcanal campaign they were sent to Australia for rest and refit. Their uniforms were in rags so they were clothed out of Australian stocks. The Aussies had their own version of British Army battledress, same cut, but in a shade of green that suited the Marines just fine. The Marine "Ike jacket" remained as a uniform item until around 1960.
The Marines actually called theirs either the "Vandegrift Jacket" after First Marine Division commander General Alexander Vandegrift, or just the "Battle Jacket."
Firelock76 Ike's fame would only come after the Big Boy's name was permanent. But Ike didn't do too badly, he did get a neat-looking military jacket and an aircraft carrier named after him, to say nothing of that gig in the White House.
Ike's fame would only come after the Big Boy's name was permanent. But Ike didn't do too badly, he did get a neat-looking military jacket and an aircraft carrier named after him, to say nothing of that gig in the White House.
The "Eisenhower" jacket, which was non-standard, was actually a standard blouse that was cut off at the waist. Dad recalled that an officer would take his blouse to a tailor to have the appropriate alterations made. Since the jacket was non-standard, some would have fancy inside linings depending on what the officer could afford.
Penny Trains Or a Kelvinator refrigerator!
Or a Kelvinator refrigerator!
Absolutely right! Which is why a lot of people kept their iceboxes through the 1930's and through World War 2. The Thirties because few could afford them, WW2 because they just weren't to be had.
jtrain1I thought that it should have been called the "Eisenhower". But "Big Boy" is fine.
Well, when the first Big Boys rolled out of the erecting shops Dwight Eisenhower was an obscure brigadier general on George Marshall's staff in Washington DC.
How or why different 'roads purchased different wheel arrangements on locomotives really depended on those 'roads ideas of what a locomotive should be, and they certainly all had their own ideas. The N&W liked the 4-8-0 wheel set-up, but not too many others did. Some tried the type but didn't stay with it as long as the N&W did.
Same with the 2-10-0's. It was never super-popular, however the Erie purchased 75 of the Russian Decapods stranded here in the US after the Bolshevik Revolution. Certainly they got 'em at at a deep discount, but in the end the Erie was quite happy with them and got a lot of good service out of them. So did the Susquehanna, who got some of the Erie "Bolsheviks," as the crews called them.
Neat picture of that Lionel Standard Gauge 4-4-4 Penny Trains posted, isn't it? What you can't get from the picture is the sheer size of the thing, see one in person and it'll take your breath away, trust me. Back in the Thirties those trains were for rich kids only!
How expensive were they? Well, a Lionel "Blue Comet" Standard Gauge set, or another Standard Gauge set with that 4-4-4 locomotive, complete with track and transformer, in 1939 cost $75. That same $75 at that time would have gotten you a Winchester 30-30 rifle, a Colt .38 revolver, and you would have had $5 change coming to you!
daveklepperCP had the only $-4-4s except one for the B&O
And yet Lionel chose to make so many 4-4-4's over the years:
OK, I know it's a "turn radius thing".
Here is a list of users of 4-8-0 locomotives:
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?country=USA&wheel=4-8-0
Here is a picture of an SP “Mastodon” in service in 1955, similar to the way N&W used their 4-8-0 units:
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/whyte/4-8-0/USA/photos/sp2914-weber.jpg
The Reading also had some 4-4-4's.
N&W may have been noted for its 4-8-0's in branchline service but it wasn't the only operator.
SP also had dual-engine Alco freight power in the C643H's.
Ineresting that the UP had the only 4-8-8-4s, and also, the only 4-12-2s, and the only Big Blows, nd the only dual-engine Alco frieght power.
N&W had the only 4-8-0s
CP had the only $-4-4s except one for the B&O and of course the PRR 01 elecrics, which don't count.
Union RR the only 0-10-2s
What else?
Penny Trains big bird I thought he had writen that on the first one getting out of the shop ? In the picture posted it's loco # 4014 ... You're correct, it was loco 4000, the first 4-8-8-4. But I couldn't find that photo on the web to link to. What I did link was the "recreation" the UP steam crew did on 4014 before they moved it from L.A. to Cheyenne.
big bird I thought he had writen that on the first one getting out of the shop ? In the picture posted it's loco # 4014 ...
You're correct, it was loco 4000, the first 4-8-8-4. But I couldn't find that photo on the web to link to. What I did link was the "recreation" the UP steam crew did on 4014 before they moved it from L.A. to Cheyenne.
Penny Trains Ok thanks !!! big bird I thought he had writen that on the first one getting out of the shop ? In the picture posted it's loco # 4014 ... You're correct, it was loco 4000, the first 4-8-8-4. But I couldn't find that photo on the web to link to. What I did link was the "recreation" the UP steam crew did on 4014 before they moved it from L.A. to Cheyenne.
Ok thanks !!!
Ha ha now I get it !
Thanks .
big birdI thought he had writen that on the first one getting out of the shop ? In the picture posted it's loco # 4014 ...
I thought he had writen that on the first one getting out of the shop ?
In the picture posted it's loco # 4014 ...
Thanks I thought I read something like that . Original name Wasatch .
For the record, this is a Baltic:
This was Gaston du Bousquet's (of de Glehn-du Bousquet fame) last and probably best design, 1909-1911. If I remember correctly they were the largest engines in Europe at that time. They seem to have been worked effectively well into the 1930s; they were just a little too big for contemporary requirements (and of course subsequent developments in France ran to more efficient Pacifics). Note the relatively small, lean boiler.
The Milwaukee Road was responsible for the first modern 4-6-4 in the United States, and adopted the name they used for it from this class. However, since they were somewhat cash-poor (in part due to the Pacific extension) they didn't actually build F6s until after NYC had the original J1 running and named.
As a sort of compromise, the distinction is made that a 4-6-4 with a pin-guided trailing truck is a "Baltic", while one with a Delta-style (whether correct Bissel proportion or not) is a "Hudson". This is a good working distinction.
You are correct about the German influence in Milwaukee. When I was working for Bolt Beranek and Newman, aoustical consultants, we were consultants for the Uhlein Perfomring Arts Center in Milwaukee. So, a German consultant, Prof. Kraemer, was hired as advisor to us, and he was a real assett. I showed him hospitality on occasion by treating him (on my BBN expence account, of course) a Maeders, a fine German retoraunt that I hope is stil in business.
I was not the primarh consjltant on the project, but simply assistant Peter Tappan, the sound ssytem designer, and Ron McKay, Larry Kirkegaard and Ted Shultz, who did the room acoustics, and Bob Hoover on noise control. One idea of mine did get implemented and is still in use, the Aeolian Skinner organ is stored in the basement and rises on an elevator to stage floor level at the stage rear when used for concerts and recitals. This allows the stage, with a mechanized demoutable stage enclosure, to be used for drama, both theater and opera.
And then for a while I had the great privelege of riding to and from Miwaukee on the Chicago Orchestra's special C&NW train before and after their concerts in Milwaukee. Three regular reclining-seat long-distance coaches were used with on E-unit, I think Ben Heineman was still running the railroad in 1969, and he was Chicago Symphony Orchestra Patron.
I also stopped off on my train trip from Brandon, Manitoba back to Downers Grove, (actuall my car was at Glenside), in Milwaukee to hear Golda Meir's famous speech in the hall, with entrnce via the stage door because of the BBN connection.
Golda Meir, Israel's only woman Prime Minister so far, moved to Israel from Milwaukee.
Dave, you are right about the MILW 4-6-4 Baltics. The City of Milwaukee has a strong German heritage (Pabst, Schlitz, etc.) and there was no way they would name a locomotive after a Dutchman!
Baltics were 4-6-4s, not 4-4-2s. I think the Milwaukee called their 4-6-4s Baltics and not Hudsons. But so did European railroads. There may have been an alternative name for Atlantics, but I don't know it. Even the Sante Fe called their 4-4-2s Atlantics. I think SP did also. Who knows, maybe they hoped to reach the East Coast some day in the future?
Firelock is on target again with the origin of Mogul:
http://steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?country=USA&wheel=2-6-0
AKA Valley Malley on the Southern Pacific for their prodigious pulling power On the level San Joaquin Valley lines.
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/180675/
SD70Dude 54light15 Mikado? IIRC one of the first large batches was built for export to Japan. The name was changed to "MacArthur" during WWII.
54light15 Mikado?
Mikado?
IIRC one of the first large batches was built for export to Japan.
The name was changed to "MacArthur" during WWII.
Or a "Water Level Route" that wouldn't be caught dead with a "Mountain", hence "Mohawk".
Or a western road that had "Baltics" in lieu of "Atlantics"?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
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