Paul Milenkovic My standard of realism is that it has to burn solid fuel. You could substitute "bio-coal" as the Minnesota project with an AT&SF 4-6-4 is proposing, but it has to be solid fuel. Yes, heavy fuel oil was burned as boiler fuel "back in the day", and it was somewhat cheaper than the light oil used in contemporary Diesels. But the movement is to burn light oil (i.e. Diesel) in steamers because it is much easier to work with and may even be cheaper to operate steam that way rather than buy coal in odd-lot quantities. But for me, you could burn coal, you could burn wood or wood pellets, you could burn a charcoal made from biowaste, but the essence of external combustion (steam) is that it uses fuels no Diesel engine could ever use.
My standard of realism is that it has to burn solid fuel.
You could substitute "bio-coal" as the Minnesota project with an AT&SF 4-6-4 is proposing, but it has to be solid fuel.
Yes, heavy fuel oil was burned as boiler fuel "back in the day", and it was somewhat cheaper than the light oil used in contemporary Diesels. But the movement is to burn light oil (i.e. Diesel) in steamers because it is much easier to work with and may even be cheaper to operate steam that way rather than buy coal in odd-lot quantities.
But for me, you could burn coal, you could burn wood or wood pellets, you could burn a charcoal made from biowaste, but the essence of external combustion (steam) is that it uses fuels no Diesel engine could ever use.
How do you classify the Union Pacific GP9s (and Gas Turbines) that were modified to run on bunker oil?
Does that invalidate all Bunker oil fueled Steam locomotives?
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
Replica? If you build an exact example of a type such as the Tornado for example, it's not a replica. It has a consecutive serial number from the last A1 built back in the day. Why not build a new 999 and see what it will do?
NYC 999 the engine New York Central chose to champion its efforts to set a high speed record was especially constructed for the job.
Public relations at the time gave us "The Empire State Express" the "Twentieth Century Limited." What better publicity stunt than to make newspaper headlines across the nation - and world. "New York Central and Hudson River Railroad service from New York City tops 100 mph speed!"
Story is that NYC's William Buchanan had the engine especially built with hand polished locomotive frame - 86" drive wheels - brass trimmed - gold leaf lettering and engine cab of fine mahogany woodwork.
After being carefully broken in and with several car and tipped off reporters - the locomotive with Irish engineer Charlie Hogan at the throttle pulled off 112 mph running slightly downgrade going west into Batavia, NY.
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This locomotive show piece and speed trophy was eventually turned into a dowdy local freight engine.
Now why would anyone want to save this "milk run" remnant of former glory in this inoquious condition. THE GLORY LACKS - GLORY!
Doc
Irish eh? that puts a new slant on things! There is a really good beer store in Batavia, maybe that was a factor. They do have Guinnesss.
carnej1 Paul Milenkovic My standard of realism is that it has to burn solid fuel. You could substitute "bio-coal" as the Minnesota project with an AT&SF 4-6-4 is proposing, but it has to be solid fuel. Yes, heavy fuel oil was burned as boiler fuel "back in the day", and it was somewhat cheaper than the light oil used in contemporary Diesels. But the movement is to burn light oil (i.e. Diesel) in steamers because it is much easier to work with and may even be cheaper to operate steam that way rather than buy coal in odd-lot quantities. But for me, you could burn coal, you could burn wood or wood pellets, you could burn a charcoal made from biowaste, but the essence of external combustion (steam) is that it uses fuels no Diesel engine could ever use. How do you classify the Union Pacific GP9s (and Gas Turbines) that were modified to run on bunker oil? Does that invalidate all Bunker oil fueled Steam locomotives?
Yeah, I still can't "wrap my head" around burning natural gas in what used to be coal-fired power company boilers. You should save the light oil (Diesel) for trucks, gasoline for cars, natural gas for houses "in town", natural gas "condensates" (propane) for houses in the country, and run stationary and locomotive boilers on coal.
Burning Bunker C in steam engine boilers was always a special case of using an otherwise useless byproduct of cheap oil. Commonly and traditionally, steam engines used coal, or if not coal, then wood.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Paul MilenkovicBurning Bunker C in steam engine boilers was always a special case of using an otherwise useless byproduct of cheap oil. Commonly and traditionally, steam engines used coal, or if not coal, then wood.
Oil fuel was recognized as a good fuel for locomotives as early as the 1880s, and one of the earliest references to successful methods of burning it in a practical locomotive (more successful in some respects, in fact, than most of the modern high-pressure burner attempts!) dates from well before the 20th Century.
Among the advantages of oil fuel that are not usually 'discussed' were the relative longevity of the fuel in storage and the lack of ash handling issues (the ATSF long-distance records would have been more difficult if ash handling 'on the fly' had been required) A disavantage is that some oil contains high vanadium, which attacks the alloy composition in modern superheaters.
There is little question that oil-fired steam (either with heavy oil, as with 844 and 4449) and lighter oil (1522, if the reports by a couple of people associated with her on RyPN are accurate, and the European 8055) is just as good an experience as solid firing, albeit requiring a different set of skills and experience from running a stoker or wielding a scoop. We don't need political contests about 'right' and 'wrong' fuels, do we? De gustibus non disputandum est.
Keep in mind oil-firing in steam locomotives was an answer to a real problem in certain parts of the country where oil was plentiful but coal was hard to get, or non-existant.
California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas spring to mind.
The Famous Run of NYC 999 -
A few more details of the 112 mph championship speed run of 1893. An event which involved several famous people over a period of twenty and more years - JAMES GORDON BENNETT JR editor of The New York Herald - second was owner of New York Central and Hudson River Railroad itself - COMMODORE CORNELIUS VANDERBILT his son WILLIAM H. VANDERBILT and his grandson WILLIAM K. VANDERBILT - third was WILLIAM BUCHANAN Superintendent Of Motive Power - fourth was GEORGE H. DANIELS General Passenger Agent of the railroad and finally, fifth was famed New York Central passenger locomotive engineer CHARLES M. HOGAN.
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JAMES GORDON BENNETT JR - The famous 112 mph high speed run began here in the philosophy of this world famous newspaper owner and editor - "His most original contribution to modern journalism could be found in his notion that a newspaper shorld not merely report stores; it should create them. Editors should not only cover the news, he felt; they should orchestrate large-scale public dramas that stir emotions and get people talking. As one historan of American journalism later put it, BENNETT had the 'ability to seize upon dormant situations and bring them to life.'
BENNETT became outrageously wealthy running his New York newspaper. He had a bad boy penchant and eventually so disgusted the American public he was forced to move to France and operate the American news service from that European city.
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COMMODORE CORNELIUS VANDERBILT - Who decided to experiment with speed and in the summer of 1874 put on a special fast train to carry the New York Herald's Sunday editions to Saratoga NY, then a very fashionable resort. A year later for nine weekends he operated a three car train from New York to Chicago that cut 6 1/2 hours off of the regular running time of 36 hours. JAMES GORDON BENNETT, publisher had prompted the COMMODORE to try out such a train to advertise speed, rode it with his wife on the first trip and paid $1,000 for each of the nine runs.
WILLIAM H. VANDERBILT - Who took control of the railroad followed up the speed tradition in 1875 with the Fast Mail train cutting Chicago to New York time to 26 hours. This included creating a 4 track main line across the distance and rebuilding the roadbed and special training of railroad personnel. These four car mail trains included mail bags dyed scarlet and one 60 foot car reserved just for newspapers.
The VANDERBILT family would control the New York Central and Hudson Railroad for another 50 years until loosing to Wall Street Speculator Robert Young in a proxy fight for control of the company in the late 1940's. One of the last desendants of this famous American railroad family is Anderson Cooper who broadcasts the CNN News Network today.
Amtrak currently operates on the former New York Central rail line built by the VANDERBILT's. Running time to Chicago is today is close to the fast times set in the great age of steam railroading - about 16 hours.
GEORGE H. DANIELS - The year was 1891 and desiring to increase passenger train speed further WILLIAM K. VANDERBILT hired a brand new railroad General Passenger Agent named GEORGE H. DANIELS who was a former patent medicine salesman and who came up with among other things the idea for a special high speed train. He is also credited with the idea to launch this new, fast, luxury train between New York and Buffalo, called the Empire State Express. Newspapers hailed it as "The World's Fastest Passenger Service." DANIELS went on further with the idea for a special high speed engine. "Let's build a special engine that will take man over the earth at 100 miles per hour!" Perhaps the foremost railroad press agent of all time DANIELS eventually gave the railroad its most famous train in 1902 the 20th Century Limited.
DANIELS saw to it that the 112 mph speed record set by the Empire State Express and its world record run on May 10th, 1893 became front page news around the world. Further, that the engine would be so exhibited on display at the Columbian Exposition in Chicago that same year.
DANIELS became famous for the extensive publication of travel literature concerning all aspects of the New York Central Railroad and held sway for many years from is office in New York Grand Central Station.
Amtrak today runs modern passenger trains through Michigan a few miles north of the famous New York to Chicago track of the Central at a daily speed of 100 mph.
WILLIAM BUCHANAN who from the 1880's thru the 1890's held the title of Superintendent of Motive Power. During this time BUCHANAN developed a large series of "American" type 4-4-0 passenger locomotives designated the "I" class - engines which were perportedly already capable of reaching near 100 mph. These engines were characterized by what was known as the "BUCHANAN look" featuring grey iron boiler jackets which included a jacketed smokebox and were set off by shiney black boiler domes. The engines also featured varnished natural wood engine cabs and were clean lined or should I say "religiously straight lined in look." They were perfect to those who devoted themselves to the athestetic of the horizontal line.
It was BUCHANAN himself who designed the sleek beautiful NYC 999 which became the most famous of the Central's 4-4-0 type engines, and he personally supervised her construction in the railroad's West Albany shop. Differing from her regular passenger sisters NYC 999 rolled out of the shop with gigantic 86" driving wheels, she was brass trimed, and equipped with front truck wheel brakes, and featured a hand polished locomotive frame, and also a speed recorder. Her tender bore in disputed script in either gold leaf or silver with the name of the train not the railroad reading "Empire State Express." With magical and unforgetable numbers on her cab and sand dome the 999 was destined for American fame and history! The NYC 999 was the last hero!
NYC 999 is perported to have reached 102 mph on May 9, 1893 in service of the Empire State Express westward from Batavia, NY, and 112.5 mph in the same service on May 10, 1893 setting a worlds speed record.
The engine was exhibited at the Chicago Worlds Fair in 1893 and returned to passenger service following this. In 1913 the NYC 999 was renumbered NYC 1086 and in 1920 was numbered NYC 1021.
NYC 999 was shopped with changes loosing her mahogany engine cab and re-equipped with 70" drive wheels replacing her 86" "high heeled slippers." Bob Butterfield the famous engineer said "her pulling power did not equal her speed...she was hard to start because her piston stroke was small relative to her great wheel diameter.
In 1933 at the Chicago Worlds Fair "Century of Progress" which featured the theme "Romance of Transportation" NYC 999 returned after 40 years and found herself exhibited with no less a companion than "reigning speed queen" the brand new 100 mph Burlinton Zephyr.
In 1948 - 1949 at the "Chicago Railroad Fair" - "Wheels-a-rolling" pageant the NYC 999 was again present on stage to steam before the crowds a full 55 years after her famous run. Also present to perform was the "Burlinton Zephyr" the "General" the "William Mason" and PRR 5313 Pennsylvania Railroad T1 4-4-4-4 the true "steam speed queen of all time" having often un-offically run near 140 mph a feat never acknowledged.
NYC 999 was retired from service in May 1952 along with most of the railroads steam locomotive fleet having an active service life from May 1893 to May 1952 for a service life of 59 years.
In 1962 the New York Central Railroad which saved no steam locomotives for posterity in an "out of character" move donated the NYC 999 to the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry.
Today the NYC 999 rests only yards from where she was exhibited as the world speed champion at the Chicago Worlds fair of 1893 and where she performed at the Chicago Worlds Fair of 1933 and where she resided on static display outdoors from 1968 to 1993 over 35 years outdoors in the elements.
NYC 999 has been exhibited on indoor display for 23 years with modern scientific historians quibbling over the technology that measured her world speed record.
NYC 999 is 123 years old today - she set her speed record 20 years before the RMS Titanic sank by striking an iceburg in the Atlantic Ocean. America - the United States was barely 100 years old there were only 44 states in the Union and Benjamin Harrison was President. The Spanish American War was in process. There was no electrical grid, radio, TV, airplanes, or automobiles and the railroad was the forefront of technology. General Custer had died on the Little Bighorn within recent memory the polar ice caps had only just been explored.
Think about that - and NYC 999 could run again today!
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CHARLES W. HOGAN - "There was no need to fear for the IRISH was drivin her!" CHARLES M. HOGAN's name appears on the payroll sheets of the railroad two weeks before President Abraham Lincoln was assassinated. HOGAN began work as a waterboy for a section gang bossed by his father. As a young man he stood by the tracks near Rochester NY, and watched the seven black draped cars of Lincoln's funeral train pass by. HOGAN became a brakeman and went into locomotive service later becoming a locomotive engineer. Running between Syracuse and Buffalo, NY he occasionally pulled special trains for the Vanderbilts.
On May 10th, 1893 he was assigned to the westbound Empire State Express. Arriving late he was given the instructions to "take her bridle off." The special train was filled with officials timing the train. HOGAN kept a fast pace from Syracuse to Rochester and with the engine running well ran the 36 miles from Batavia to Buffalo at speed. A rising grade, then a level stretch of 14 miles, a slight downward grade followed into Buffalo, NY. Passing the curve outside of Batavia its a straight run with slight curve at Winspier Bridge.
According to the speed recorder and the testamony of two men with stopwatches in the buffet car the train covered one mile in 36 seconds, others at 38, 41, and 42 seconds. The 36 second mile was at a rate of 112 mph.
The run of the famous train also made the Empire State Express a household term throughout America.
Twenty years later, in 1913, during World War I the NYC 999 was running regular local freight service between Watertown and Carthage, NY. An aging company engineer CHARLES M. HOGAN pushed the railroad to save the locomotive as a museum piece rather than scrap her.
I saw NYC 999 outdoors in Chicago in 1964 - nearby was her Chicago Worlds Fair Pageant sister Burlington Zephyr. I saw NYC 999 again displayed indoors in Chicago in 2016, however, I was unsure that the museum did not consider her a "circus attraction" in a Green Energy Age that misunderstands everything that produces work by fossil fuel heat and coal. But then again Chicago celebrates Al Capone with his own museum - GEORGE H. DANIELS would understand the "carnival barker" fame of NYC 999 as he was the one who first put her there in the 1890's!
The Queen is dead! - NYC 999 - Long live the Queen!
Does it even matter, this is just semantics. It's a steam powered RR engine from the not-to-distant past. Representing the industrial revolution which transformed the entire World. wrrsends
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