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Texas and Pacific RR #610 A 2-10-4 TEXAS

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, January 14, 2017 9:24 PM

Kgbw49- Terrific photos and effort posting these...also on the PA thread and Western Maryland..spent hours studying those pics. Very nice and thanks. 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, January 15, 2017 1:05 PM

Some T&P pictures from Louisiana...

T&P 4-6-2 712 in Alexandria Union Station...

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T&P 4-6-2 718 at speed in the Bayou State...

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Another T&P 4-6-2 at Alexandria LA - T&P power always looks to be in pristine condition and looking sharp...Image result for texas & pacific in louisiana

T&P 4-6-2 704 in New Orleans LA branded for "The Eagle"...

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T&P 4-6-2 700 at New Orleans LA also branded for "The Eagle"...

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T&P 4-6-2 700 in another view with "The Eagle" branding...

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T&P 2-10-4 649 in Shreveport LA clearing out the cylinders at the start of a run...

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T&P 2-8-2 802 at Shreveport LA...

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T&P 0-8-0 482 in Shreveport LA...

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T&P 2-10-4 623 at Mineola TX tied to another long string of freight...

 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 7:34 PM

T&P 2-8-2 800 in Fort Worth TX...

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T&P 4-6-2 715 on the turntable at Marshall TX - interesting caption but maybe they mean connected to a water tender?...

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T&P 2-10-4 657 cleaning out the cylinders before a run...

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T&P 4-8-2 909 in Dallas TX...

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T&P 4-6-2 719 at the water plug in Mineola TX - notice Boxpok main driver...

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T&P 2-10-2 5?? at the head end of a freight train...

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T&P 4-6-2 719 on freight at Mineola TX...

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T&P 2-10-2 526 in a broadside view at Fort Worth TX...

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T&P 2-10-4 668 in a low-sun-angle portrait - notice main driver counterbalancing...

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T&P 4-8-2 906 at Fort Worth TX...

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T&P 2-10-4 655 on the ready track with a water canteen coupled to the tender...

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, January 23, 2017 7:06 PM

PHOTOS FROM THE 20s:

Hanging on the crane inside the T&P Marshall Shops

601

632

642

652 with broken off pilot. The pilots on the I-1, I-1a, I-1b and I-1c series were originally wooden and larger. Because they were often damaged, the larger wooden pilots were replaced by smaller steel pilots in 1929 and the I-1d series was delivered with these smaller steel pilots straight out of the factory.

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, January 23, 2017 7:17 PM

PHOTOS FROM THE 30s:

637

652

657

An unknown one speeding through Texas.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Monday, January 23, 2017 7:27 PM

Great stuff, De Luxe!

Those original wood pilots almost look "Polar-Express-sized".

On the shot of 657, it must be moving along pretty well because the movement of the running gear is a bit blurred, connoting some speed there.

And the last one going over the overpass - that is one photo done in the manner of O.Winston Line - really nice!

I zoomed in as far as I could to 500% and it looks to be possibly 646 or 648, but not certain.

Really great stuff!

T&P definitely had photogenic classes of power.

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, January 23, 2017 7:33 PM

PHOTOS FROM THE 40s (PART 1):

609

610

This and the following photos: 611

612

614 with second sand dome added

 

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, January 23, 2017 7:48 PM

PHOTOS FROM THE 40s (PART 2):

615 with second sand dome added and a very unusual 5th disc driver

616 with straight smoke stack that was only common on the I-1 class (600-609)

618 with high smoke stack

621 with second sand dome added and high smoke stack

622

628 with high smoke stack

630

634 with second sand dome added

This and the following photos: 635 with second sand dome added

 

 

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, January 23, 2017 8:01 PM

PHOTOS FROM THE 40s (PART 3):

639 with second sand dome added

642

This and the following photo: 653

This and the following photos: 657

658 with high smoke stack

 

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, January 23, 2017 8:41 PM

PHOTOS FROM THE 40s (PART 4):

The following five photos show those engines that were rebuilt in the late 40s (1947-1949) with frames and cylinder blocks made out of one piece, disc drivers, lightweight rods and delta trailing trucks for 80 mph operation with flagship passenger trains like the Sunshine Special. Only nine 2-10-4´s were rebuilt like that and were reclassified as I-2 class. Having 255 psi boiler pressure, 97900 lbs of tractive effort and a maximum speed of 80 mph, they represented the pinnacle of T&P steam engines but due to fast diselization lasted only until 1951.

608 with original straight smoke stack. The I-1 series (600-609) had straight smoke stacks in contrast to all the later classes that had flared stacks. Unlike all the other eight rebuilt 2-10-4´s that had high smoke stacks, 608 retained it´s original smoke stack. Also some non-rebuilt 2-10-4´s from the other classes received a higher smoke stack at some point in time, but the smoke stacks of the I-1 class were never heightened nor flared. Interestingly, 608 did not receive a rectangular second sand dome like some of the I-1a, I-1b and I-1c classes later did, but received a smaller round second sand dome identical with the second sand domes the I-1d class were built with in 1929.

616

625

636

649

665

This and the following photo: 666, the "Devils Engine".

667

An unknown 2-10-4 in passenger service. Interestingly, there is no baggage or mail car at the headend but only a wood express reefer.

An unknown 2-10-4 in passenger service. This engine can be identified as I-1d class because of the small round second sand dome. The headend equipment on this train is unusual because there are two horse cars instead of a baggage or mail car.

 

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, January 23, 2017 8:56 PM

PHOTOS FROM THE 50s:

604 with a very unusual 4th disc driver

610 after being donated to the Fort Worth Southwestern Exposition and Fat Stock Show at the Will Rogers Coliseum in 1951.

638 at the State Fair of Texas in Dallas in 1950. It was scrapped in 1955.

647 with stripped off lettering on tender and cab and without pilot.

This and the following photo: The dismantling and scrapping of 650 at the Marshall Shops on May 26th, 1953.

656 looking very unusual and non-T&P without the Elesco feedwater heater.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Monday, January 23, 2017 9:17 PM

Okay, the heck with the T1 Trust - everything's bigger in Texas and we need to do an I2 Trust - rebuild the 610 with the one-piece cast frame and cylinders, Delta trailing truck and Boxpok drivers. No slipping on those drivers! And for excursion service no need to take it up to 80 mph - 50-60 mph will be just fine. Name it the "Sam Houston" and designate it as Texas' official steam locomotive. Run occasional excursions on weekends on Trinity Railway Express and connections. Yes it is a big, big unit. But it's Texas!

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, January 23, 2017 9:33 PM

The testings of 610 in 1975:

 

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, January 23, 2017 9:41 PM

With the AFT in 1976 (b&w) Part 1:

 

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, January 23, 2017 9:46 PM

With the AFT in 1976 (b&w) Part 2:

 

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, January 23, 2017 9:51 PM

With the AFT in 1976 (color) Part 3:

 

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, January 23, 2017 9:56 PM

With the AFT in 1976 (color) Part 4:

 

RME
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Posted by RME on Monday, January 23, 2017 10:00 PM

kgbw49
Okay, the heck with the T1 Trust - everything's bigger in Texas and we need to do an I2 Trust - rebuild the 610 with the one-piece cast frame and cylinders, Delta trailing truck and Boxpok drivers.

Why replace superior Baldwin disc with Boxpok?  The only one needed is the main.  All the work to make it run smoothly has been done already.

You won't get your cast frame made until the T1 Trust works out the suppliers and methods to fabricate it cost-effectively.  (Or you could pay the Chinese to work their way up the learning curve for you, as the guys with the Hudson project reportedly found out...)

Likewise, who needs a whole new Delta truck (presumably with full rearward chassis extension and drawbar as part of the new cast frame) when a far better approach is to put proper lateral-motion control devices on the 'four corners' of the articulated trailing truck ... and perhaps put M942-compliant roller bearings in there.  Looks better, too... there's likely going to be some compromise between where the axles of the Delta truck have to be for weight-bearing reasons, and where they (and the pivot) should go for proper Bissel curve following.  (Note the hardened-roller kludge for lateral motion on the first trailing-truck axle in some of the 'improved' large Berks!)  Why do all that work when articulation is better?  (Well, better once you know what to do with it, at least better than Mr. Woodard did at the time...)

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, January 23, 2017 10:00 PM

With the AFT in 1976 (color) Part 5:

 

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, January 23, 2017 10:10 PM

kgbw49

Great stuff, De Luxe!

Those original wood pilots almost look "Polar-Express-sized".

On the shot of 657, it must be moving along pretty well because the movement of the running gear is a bit blurred, connoting some speed there.

And the last one going over the overpass - that is one photo done in the manner of O.Winston Line - really nice!

I zoomed in as far as I could to 500% and it looks to be possibly 646 or 648, but not certain.

Really great stuff!

T&P definitely had photogenic classes of power.

 

Yes I agree, T&P power was truly photogenic! I actually love those large "Polar-Express-sized" pilots. Always liked that "cowcatcher-style". I generally love big pilots, but not all of them: those massive oversized steel pilots used on CB&Q, MILW and the NP A4 Northerns are totally ugly. Actually I was surprised that the T&P 2-10-4´s came with wooden pilots originally. I didn´t think wooden pilots still were in use in the 20´s.

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, January 23, 2017 10:38 PM

kgbw49

Okay, the heck with the T1 Trust - everything's bigger in Texas and we need to do an I2 Trust - rebuild the 610 with the one-piece cast frame and cylinders, Delta trailing truck and Boxpok drivers. No slipping on those drivers! And for excursion service no need to take it up to 80 mph - 50-60 mph will be just fine. Name it the "Sam Houston" and designate it as Texas' official steam locomotive. Run occasional excursions on weekends on Trinity Railway Express and connections. Yes it is a big, big unit. But it's Texas!

 

Haha nice idea! If I had cash like Mr Trump I´d surely donate the needed amount to make 610 run again! But if you only wanna run it at 50-60 mph then there is really no need to rebuild it into an I-2. All 70 engines were upgraded for passenger service during 1937-1940 with rebalanced drivers and disc center drivers in order to not only run at a maximum speed of 70 mph but also to run very well and smooth at this speed (what they indeed did). But I forgot to mention: those nine I-2´s that were rebuilt for 80 mph operation featured Timken roller bearings on all locomotive and tender axles. I guess that would definetly be an advantage for excursion service!!! I wonder what happened to the booster of 610! When she was reactivated in the 70´s, she ran without her booster (as well as without a doghouse). Means "only" 84600 lbs of tractive effort instead of the original 97900 lbs with booster. Would be cool if the booster would be installed again (the doghouse is unimportant as these engines originally came without it anyway and ran without it until the mid-40s). Just imagine a Timken roller bearing and booster equipped 610 storming at 80 mph with a 20 car excursion train through the Texas plains! This Texan would surely proove to all those Northerns in the excursion biz that it is equal to them (if not superior)!

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 3:11 PM

De Luxe

Just imagine a Timken roller bearing and booster equipped 610 storming at 80 mph with a 20 car excursion train through the Texas plains! This Texan would surely proove to all those Northerns in the excursion biz that it is equal to them (if not superior)!

 

Except boosters can't be used at high speed like that. They were only designed for use under about 15 mph or so, to give the train a little extra boost to get it started, or keep it from stalling on a grade. Boosters aren't really needed in excursion service anyways, probably why it was removed in the 70's, since it would have been a bigger maintenance headache than a help. 

 

RME
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Posted by RME on Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:19 PM

S. Connor
Except boosters can't be used at high speed like that. They were only designed for use under about 15 mph or so, to give the train a little extra boost to get it started, or keep it from stalling on a grade.

Later boosters were good for higher speed, but weren't too 'useful' at speed due to rising steam consumption.  (The higher speed meant they didn't have to be thrown out of gear as early.)  On the other hand, they could be invaluable in starting a consist, especially one with congealed plain bearings - think of them as an additional coupled axle's worth of TE at starting.  And the device could be very useful in reducing the time needed to accelerate a train (in the lower speed ranges) with a 2-cylinder steam locomotive -- that is one of the reasons NYC used them on the J1 Hudsons.

The Lewty booster was, if I recall correctly, specifically designed to be useful at higher speeds; it certainly can if transmission speed gearing is used.

 

 

Boosters aren't really needed in excursion service anyways, probably why it was removed in the 70's, since it would have been a bigger maintenance headache than a help.

Not needed with a 2-10-4 this size on a 20-car excursion in relatively flat country, no.  If you don't need the operating advantages, it will certainly be cheaper to leave it off...

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, January 28, 2017 6:11 PM

What was the reason a 2nd Sand Dome was added to so many engines?

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by tomstamey on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 2:41 PM
The New Orleans Ft Worth run did exist. But you had to change trains in Ft Worth. The Ranger route was from El Paso to Texarkana.
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Posted by tomstamey on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 2:46 PM
That is # 645 crossing highway 180 west of Weatherford Tx with an oil tain Tom Stamey
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Posted by tomstamey on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 2:49 PM

De Luxe

PHOTOS FROM THE 30s:

637

652

657

An unknown one speeding through Texas.

 

De Luxe

PHOTOS FROM THE 30s:

637

652

657

An unknown one speeding through Texas.

 

That is the 645 on the overpass of highway 180 west of Weatherford Tx with an oil train

 

Tom Stamey

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Posted by tomstamey on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 2:57 PM

657 is at Ft Worth engine terminal.  The 2-10-2 is not waiting for a run.  Its eccentric rod and headlight have been removed and given to another engine.  This engine is retired.

Tags: 657
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Posted by tomstamey on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 2:59 PM


Reason for 2nd sand dome being added is that runs west of Ft Worth needed the extra sand capacity due to two 9 and 13 mile long grades of 1.3% and another grade of 7 miles at the west end of Lancaster yard going up to Aledo.

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Posted by tomstamey on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 3:01 PM

Two other reasons the booster was taken off:  Money not available to rebuild it and we were running short on time to get the engine running for the Freedom Train.

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