so any news on this project ??
Hi Sam Glad to see your interest in this Project.I will attempt to set the record straight with all your statements.
The #3463 was specifically selected by A.T.S.F for display here in Topeka.
It was Donated to a private corporation. The ownership issue was clouded by the fact that entities assumed they possessed it . In fact the original corp. never relinquished ownership at anytime.
This as I have said will be over soon and 3463 will remain in Topeka and several people will have egg on their faces when this is done. Rest assured #3463 WILL be taken care of in the future by volunteers who care and love this locomotive.
Also None of the government entities have asked that anything be done with #3463 as it has been fenced and no one can get to it so it's not a "Child Scraper" or an "Eye Wrenching Problem" .
Thanks
Jerry
jpetrel Hi Sam Glad to see your interest in this Project.I will attempt to set the record straight with all your statements. The #3463 was specifically selected by A.T.S.F for display here in Topeka. It was Donated to a private corporation. The ownership issue was clouded by the fact that entities assumed they possessed it . In fact the original corp. never relinquished ownership at anytime. This as I have said will be over soon and 3463 will remain in Topeka and several people will have egg on their faces when this is done. Rest assured #3463 WILL be taken care of in the future by volunteers who care and love this locomotive. Also None of the government entities have asked that anything be done with #3463 as it has been fenced and no one can get to it so it's not a "Child Scraper" or an "Eye Wrenching Problem" . Thanks Jerry
Jerry;
I really appreciate your response! As I understand your statements...3463 was "loaned" for exhibit. It was strictly an issue of temporary custody, and not a change of ownership(?) So that in itself is an unexpected turn of events. Usually, my experiences in the past with these donated locomotives. is as I had previously stated: a local political entity is approached and asked if they would like a donation of equipment ( a locomotive that was familiar to that sp[ecific area.) to be displayed, most times in a park or along side a railroad related structure (ie: A station that is to be a local museum, or public building). In order to satisfy leagal ramifications, it will be 'sold' for a token amount ($ 1. dollar(?) After a while the local interst wanes and the ravages of open public display take over and deterioration sets in). Topeka is known for its long ties to the AT&SF RR, its facilities that were so important to the operation of the railroad, building lcomotives, etc. Have the "Shops' there had any role in the continuing maintenance of the 3463? It would seem logical that they might have unofficially keep an eye on such a local display.
We had a donation of a Frisco 2-8-2 Mikado(#1351) was put in the City's Fairgrounds Park in the 1950's, IIRC in the 1980's it was moved out under the care of a local private museum and then it was moved out to a neighboring community and set up with a parked display and some of the cars were used as a restaurant. Apparently spotty success, and the 'Dinner Train was pieced off' and now it sits along side the NS Main line as a static display ( painted a flat kinda apple green and sporting an N&W Caboose (labeled for Southern Rwy). Most of the time, TIME and The Weather becomes the enemy of these old Railroad Displays". I hope the 3463 fares better.
Hi Sam: The 3463 was donated to a private corp. not loaned there was an exchange of a bill of sale only as a public display of the change of ownership. the up keep was the responsibility of the private corp. In the 80's the county wanted to move it so they had to do the asbestos removal before they could do that. in the 90's Topeka Railroad Days tried to do a restoration on and it only was half completed which made the Great Overland Station believe they could claim it as their own. Sad fact is the original corp was never approached and asked for any permissions and never gave the ownership to anyone else. There for it could not have been sold or Donated to anyone without the permission of the Corporation.
jpetrel Hi Sam: The 3463 was donated to a private corp. not loaned there was an exchange of a bill of sale only as a public display of the change of ownership. the up keep was the responsibility of the private corp. In the 80's the county wanted to move it so they had to do the asbestos removal before they could do that. in the 90's Topeka Railroad Days tried to do a restoration on and it only was half completed which made the Great Overland Station believe they could claim it as their own. Sad fact is the original corp was never approached and asked for any permissions and never gave the ownership to anyone else. There for it could not have been sold or Donated to anyone without the permission of the Corporation. Jerry
I really wish I could say yes, but alas this will probably go to court and be decided there. It doesn't strike me that they will just walk away from this project without trying to save face.
This is business that people don't know who owns the thing so it has to sit there and rust instead of being put under steam, even if the people in Minnesota want to modify the design, is a shame.
Professor Joseph Campbell once explained to interviewer Bill Moyers that dragons in Chinese folklore bring luck whereas in Western stories they represent greed. That is, dragons like to hoard treasure just for the sake of having it set there. There be dragons, I say.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Sit there and Rust? Modify the design? Wow Paul sank any ships lately? What do you say lets go plow up the Gettysburg battle fields and build condos. Its just history right Paul?
Thats why people are fighting to keep it, History. My grandfather fired the #3463 while in the yards. Thats Family history. Other people involved had Family on the design teams and engineers that drove it Thats History. #3463 is the last of its kind NO more exist.
The people that are fighting to keep it have a plan in place, and I assure you it will not just sit there and rust as it has in the past because some people were more interested in the Overland Station and the money it could bring them rather than complete the locomotive that they promised they would.
You call it greed, we call it preservation of OUR history.
No offense Jerry but the locomotive looks like it is in pretty sorry shape. Obviously few people really give a hoot about this locomotive and even fewer are willing to put in effort into getting it look half way decent. I am a big fan of park locomotives and often go out of my way to see where they are located. Many of these park locomotives are in such bad shape that I wonder if they are even worth photographing.
It seems that in the last 5 or so years many cities are ridding these eye sore locomotives to anyone who wants them. When I lived in Washington I remember three park locomotives in three different cities that were sold for just 1 dollar a piece. All three were in miserable condition with parts and pieces laying on the ground next to them.
When the city counsel put a notice to sell the locomotives as surplus, boy didn't the old farts come out of the woodwork to protest. These guys had a plan, they were going to re-paint it, they were going to do things with it and open the cab to visitors. They were going to restore it and run it again. Yeah right! They had over 50 years to do something to it and they never even lifted a garden hose to spray the pigeon crap off it. For over 50 years NOTHING was done to any of those locomotives except watch the paint peel and rust.
As far as ownership issues are concerned, every park locomotive I have ever seen was owned by the city that it rests in. Even if it was sold to a individual or a organization the city can easily condemn the locomotive and take ownership of it. In nearly all these cases the original paper work (if any), and the people who sold or donated the locomotive either can't be located or are deceased. This eventually leads the locomotive to be labeled as abandon, returned to the city, and sold off as surplus.
I am all for this company who wants to remove this locomotive out of the park and get it running again. They have a plan and at least they are willing to put some time, energy and money into it. The other option of letting the locomotive rust to death in a location that no one seems to know about. I was in Topeka about two weeks ago and even the people working at the Overland station said they didn't know about the #3463. One old man said they did have a locomotive on display at the fairgrounds but it was moved years ago up to Minnesota. Another man said there was never any steam locomotives on display in Topeka. Good lord the people in Topeka are one beer shy of a six pack.
No offense taken.
I have learned that the internet has alot of folks that think they know what they are talking about and don't .
This will be over soon and everyone can return to speculating about the next great project but as for the #3463 she Will be taken care as she should have been in the past.
Thomas 9011As far as ownership issues are concerned, every park locomotive I have ever seen was owned by the city that it rests in. Even if it was sold to a individual or a organization the city can easily condemn the locomotive and take ownership of it. In nearly all these cases the original paper work (if any), and the people who sold or donated the locomotive either can't be located or are deceased. This eventually leads the locomotive to be labeled as abandon, returned to the city, and sold off as surplus. I am all for this company who wants to remove this locomotive out of the park and get it running again. They have a plan and at least they are willing to put some time, energy and money into it. The other option of letting the locomotive rust to death in a location that no one seems to know about. I was in Topeka about two weeks ago and even the people working at the Overland station said they didn't know about the #3463. One old man said they did have a locomotive on display at the fairgrounds but it was moved years ago up to Minnesota. Another man said there was never any steam locomotives on display in Topeka. Good lord the people in Topeka are one beer shy of a six pack.
I am all for this company who wants to remove this locomotive out of the park and get it running again. They have a plan and at least they are willing to put some time, energy and money into it. The other option of letting the locomotive rust to death in a location that no one seems to know about.
I was in Topeka about two weeks ago and even the people working at the Overland station said they didn't know about the #3463. One old man said they did have a locomotive on display at the fairgrounds but it was moved years ago up to Minnesota. Another man said there was never any steam locomotives on display in Topeka. Good lord the people in Topeka are one beer shy of a six pack.
I am not too surprised that the GOS people could not recall any locomotive. That’s a little humorous.
I think I understand your point that you prefer to rescue an old locomotive from the park and get it running again. But people are skeptical of the plan, and feel that the locomotive might just become so much world scrap iron if the plan goes awry. In my opinion, there is a lot of pie-in-the-sky about the proposal to use the #3463 for the new experimental steam locomotive. But they might have garnered the wherewithal to see the locomotive moved to Minneapolis, and then have it fall into oblivion or worse.
It is not fair to conclude that the only possible destiny for the locomotive is to be given a chance to run again—or—to rot in a public park. The other destiny is to give the locomotive the home in Topeka that it properly deserves.
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