In the book "Montreal Railway Terminals" there is a short paragraph of commuter trains working out of Montreal CPR Windsor Station...........
"Suburban service began in 1893 between Montreal and Point Fortune, along the Ottawa River at the Quebec-Ontario border. The CP built a special purpose locomotive for the suburban service: it being a 4-6-4T steam locomotive number 624"
Until the time of reading this small book a few weeks ago, I was unaware of CPR having any tank locomotives. The commuter line between Dorval (just outside Montreal) had parallel CN and CP trackage and this was a race track for CN and CP engineers between Dorval & Ste Anne de Bellevue.
samfp1943 Krokodil: Try this link: http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/12/12.htm#160 I was looking for some other information and stumbled upon this web site. You asked for some information on large tanks...I hope this will satisfy that. There were not many at all, of 0-12-0T's un-articulated locos in America. BUT, obviously, there were some whoppers built and used in Europe; as evidenced by the photos in the above link. Union Pacific did operate a fleet of 4-12-2' s out West.( see kinks for specs on these engines).
Krokodil:
Try this link: http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/12/12.htm#160
I was looking for some other information and stumbled upon this web site. You asked for some information on large tanks...I hope this will satisfy that.
There were not many at all, of 0-12-0T's un-articulated locos in America. BUT, obviously, there were some whoppers built and used in Europe; as evidenced by the photos in the above link. Union Pacific did operate a fleet of 4-12-2' s out West.( see kinks for specs on these engines).
Johnny
KrokodilHi Betamax unfortunately the link does not work. I still do not understand several things around this locomotive. You wrote about a 4-6-0 engine with small attached tender. In Steamtown there is a following description: The latter was placed under the tank, which was of the water-bottom type. The rear frame, on which the tank was carried, was of steel, cast in one piece with the truck center plate, draft gear housing, rear bumper and tank supports. What is the rear frame? What was cast in one piece with truck center plate? Thank you for any explanation!
Hi Betamax
unfortunately the link does not work. I still do not understand several things around this locomotive.
You wrote about a 4-6-0 engine with small attached tender.
In Steamtown there is a following description:
The latter was placed under the tank, which was of the water-bottom type. The rear frame, on which the tank was carried, was of steel, cast in one piece with the truck center plate, draft gear housing, rear bumper and tank supports.
What is the rear frame? What was cast in one piece with truck center plate?
Thank you for any explanation!
Try http://tinyurl.com/krocd3
Maybe they cast the rear section of the frame separately and bolted it on the the loco bed during the erection process. May have saved time and money by not making a completely unique loco bed casting for a few engines. The same way some unibody automobiles had a front or rear frame assembly attached to the body.
A tank engine is any small engine which carries it's own fuel and water in an attached part of the locomotive, but not a separate tender. This unit has the "tender" built onto the back of the cab.
Hi Sam
thank you for your help. I am studying the sources - very interesting.
To the Krokodil - this my favorite electric lokomotive originated to Austria (ÖBB 1089) and I constructed the model in scale 1 (1:32) from scratch and together with my friends we have built 5 pieces.
http://www.arlbergbahn.at/wolfurt-SZ1189-02.jpg
In other side I prefer steam locomotives (I constructed and build several models - close to 30 in 3 different scales), and I have a big collection of model Shays in H0.
Here are some of my RR videos:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBDaXL96fhG8eRgI75dCgt-Q3Brf8XHmS
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF2674BF4E3765682
Thank you!
I was actually not looking for the small tank locomotives, rather I am searching for the big or bigger ones, for main line operation in the suburb services.
Somebody is telling me, that there very many in service (like in Europe) however I could find only sporadically some engines of such types (excluding the switchers with 2-3 axles), and except those switchers and the class #47 not many other are in the list of preserved locomotives. (They would be ideal for touristic railways)
There were not that many Suburban Tanks engines in North America.
Krokodil Hi Sam! Thank you for your reply. Do you know how many such locomotives were used by NYC?
Hi Sam!
Thank you for your reply. Do you know how many such locomotives were used by NYC?
I am nowhere near versed on NYC's motive power, but will try to help..No idea of quantities of tank engines rostered, but the thumbnails list a couple of other classes of tank style engines.. In the thumbnail directory on the web site in the previous thread.. Click on K&M 9501 ( subsidieary of NYC; Kanawaha & Michicigan < a coal hauling railroad> in West Virginia) it is a 2-8-2 Class HXa locomotive)
The information on the D1a lists another class of tank engines as a 2-8-2T and that the D2a's were rebuilt from2-6-6T's into 2-8-2Ts. You can pretty well bet these engines were confined to commuter services in the New York City and Easter New York State areas. AS to quantities, I have no idea as to how many, but most likely around that area mentioned there were a lot of them.
PS. Click on the thumbnails of the locomotives in the previous link to NYC locomotives and you'll get an enlarged photo and a brief description about each. Hope this will help you out.. By the way, Krokodil, are you stateside or in Germany. Years ago I had a Merklin model of a Krokodil,German electric locomotive.. Just curious!
Krokodil Who has information about this locomotive? #1410
Who has information about this locomotive?
#1410
Krokadil: Not exactly the same engine(1410 of New York Central), but one in the same class 2-6-6T of NYC/Boston and Albany #306:
http://www.forecyte.com/nyccollection/
Click on link and then on thumbnail for the B&A # 306, class D2a tank engine. MOst likely this style of engine was used in a commuter style service due to a limited range of it coal and water supply as a tank style locomotive.
KrokodilHi Betamax CN #47 at Steamtown is a small 4-6-0 engine with a small attached tender (and a truck under it to bear the load). IIRC, it was used in Montreal. Does it mean, that the tender is separated from the main frame or how rigid is the connection between the main frame and the tender?
It is all one rigid frame, a 4-6-4T. CN had a fleet of 6 such locomotives, used mostly in Montreal commuter service. Total length was 50'-2", 63" drivers. The rather limited coal and water capacity was not a problem since the runs were short. The advantage of the design was that they were bi-directional, hence just ran around the train with no need to put in a turntable or wye at the termini. Three of the six have survived, yet another example of how often the unusual gets over-represented in preservation:
46 at Vallee Jonction, in south eastern Quebec
47 At Steamtown, Pennsylvania
49 at ExpoRail, just outside Montreal
The bi-directional capability would make them ideal for a tourist operation; decades ago someone had told me Steamtown at Bellows Falls had wanted to put the 47 in service but some missing documentation on the boiler's history made it too difficult. Just to confuse the issue, another CN locomotive that went stateside was an 0-6-0, 7470. In its new home the number was shortened by dropping the first and last digit, making it also 47. The original number has since been restored.
John
All one piece. The cab simply flows into the "tender" section. All the details are here: http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/steamtown/shs3a.htm
We have three US built tanks preserved in the UK ex US Army Transportation Corps Class S100 :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_USA_Class
Hope this is of some interest.
thank you. It is an interesting reading!
Krokodil Hi Sam the link is missing. Can you please repeat it. Thank you!
the link is missing. Can you please repeat it.
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/72275/876633.aspx#876633
Here is the link to the Thread on Madison Hill on the former PRR.
Hope this will provide you some interesting reading.
Krokodil Thank you very much! ad CN #47 Very interesting construction. Completely unknown in Europe! Thank you also for the link to Indiana Children museum. I visited this museum 2 times. Really very interesting.
Thank you very much!
ad CN #47
Very interesting construction. Completely unknown in Europe!
Thank you also for the link to Indiana Children museum. I visited this museum 2 times. Really very interesting.
Not trying to belabor the issue about Reuben Wells, but your mention of having visited the Locomotive in the Children's Museum leads me to add the following link to a previous thread that discussed the environment and requirements for PRR's Madison Hill ( A 5.86% grade). I thought you might also enjoy reading it.
Any discussion about American Tank Steam Engines should also include the REUBEN WELLS.
An 0-10-0T when built in 1868, and after twenty years of service was rebuilt into an 0-8-0T. It was built to work on one of the steepest railroads in the US; The MJ&I RR (Madison,Jeffersonville& Indianapolis RR) in Southeastern Indiana.
When retired it was reworked at PRR Altoona Shops back into its original 0-10-0T configuration and placed for display in the basement of the Children's Museum in Indianapolis-- Here is a link to the Museum's Website and info on the Reuben Wells
http://www.childrensmuseum.org/themuseum/allaboard/index.htm
Heres a link:
http://rivertorail.mjcpl.org/index.php?id=30
Didn't Boston& Albany (NYC) use tank locomotives on commuter trains out of South Station in Boston, I believe it lasted into the 1950's
!
Thank you very much! Is there any preserved from these type of locomotives?
What about the amount of those engines (roughly).?
The St. Clair Tunnel Co. had 0-10-0T's that were used to pull trains through the tunnel prior to the electrification. After the tunnel was electrified, they acquired tenders and were demoted to yard service.
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