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Save the F40PH

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Save the F40PH
Posted by Ham549 on Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:29 PM

I am trying to preserve a ex-Amtrak F40PH. For now I am trying to raise money through my online store www.cafepress.com/f40ph but that hasn't been going to well. Just in 2007 alone we have lost these units.

277 Scrapped at Larry's Truck and Electric, McDonald OH (Oct 2007)
278 Converted to NPCU 90278, September 2007
284 Scrapped at Larry's Truck and Electric, McDonald OH (Aug 2007)
297 Scrapped at Larry's Truck and Electric, McDonald OH (Oct 2007)
300 Scrapped for parts at MPI Boise ID, August 2007
309 Scrapped at Larry's Truck and Electric, McDonald OH (Oct 2007)
320 Rail World Locomotive Leasing (stripped, Montreal, Maine & Atlantic RR, Dec 2007)
322 Scrapped at Larry's Truck and Electric, McDonald OH (Oct 2007)
330 Scrapped at Larry's Truck and Electric, McDonald OH (Aug 2007)
338 Scrapped for parts at MPI Boise ID, August 2007
345 Rail World Locomotive Leasing (stripped, Montreal, Maine & Atlantic RR, Dec 2007)
347 Scrapped at Larry's Truck and Electric, McDonald OH (Oct 2007)
349 Scrapped at Larry's Truck and Electric, McDonald OH (Oct 2007)

I am despretely trying to figure out what to do before it is too late. For the recorded I do know a few have been preserved already but mostly in the western united states. I also do have a place to put it (a museum I am part of) but since this is my project and not the museums I don't want to state who they are at the moment.

Save the F40PH!
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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 1:52 PM

Save you nickels and buy one from the scrapper!  Home equity loan?

Why do you want to save one?  Many are still running around with their second owners.  e.g. the 4 that CSX has & the Music City Star locos.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 2:38 PM
Start raising money and don't buy anything for another ten years .  VIA has just let a contract to thoroughly rebuild and modernize most of its FP-40's, and they will be around for a long time.  One of them should be available for preservation eventually.
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Posted by Ham549 on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:35 PM

The modle F40PH I am trying to save is the one Amtrak used.

Save the F40PH!
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Posted by Mr_Ash on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 10:11 PM
The only thing diffrent is the paint job My 2 cents [2c]
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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, January 17, 2008 6:48 AM
 Ham549 wrote:

The modle F40PH I am trying to save is the one Amtrak used.

Why do you want to save one?

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by BentnoseWillie on Thursday, January 17, 2008 6:53 AM
The only thing diffrent is the paint job
Not true. VIA's were built much later than Amtrak's, and are in fact F40PH-2s. There are several external differences, and the cabs are completely different inside from Amtrak units.
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Posted by Mr_Ash on Thursday, January 17, 2008 7:14 AM
Thats why its called an F40PH-2 and not an "F40PH" Sign - Dots [#dots]
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Posted by BentnoseWillie on Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:36 AM

Thats why its called an F40PH-2 and not an "F40PH"

Well, you're the one that claimed that between VIA and Amtrak F40PHs:

The only thing diffrent is the paint job.

Besides, the F40PH/F40PH-2 is a distinction that's often missed, even among railfans and modelers, despite the fact that there are external differences. Differences that you obviously didn't know about... Clown [:o)]

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:44 AM
I like that last PS comment!    You have a great sense of humor and I hope to see more of this sort of stuff!
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Posted by SSW9389 on Thursday, January 17, 2008 11:43 AM
Contact Ed Bowers at Vintage Locomotives Inc. and maybe your museum can get an F40PH. He has worked out deals with quite a few museums for display locomotives.  
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Posted by DMUinCT on Thursday, January 17, 2008 1:35 PM

   True, the early F40PH did not have HEP.  They used the Prime Mover to supply electrical power to the train with a fast idle.

   BUT, lots of F40PH remain with HEP on Commuter Railroads.

  The Boston Commuter Rail has 55 of them.  18 F40PH-2 built 1978-1980 (rebuilt 1989-1990), 25 F40PH-2C built 1987-1988, and 12 F40PH-2M built 1991-1993.  The also have 25 GP40-MC built 1997-1998.

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, January 17, 2008 2:04 PM
 DMUinCT wrote:

   True, the early F40PH did not have HEP.  They used the Prime Mover to supply electrical power to the train with a fast idle.

   BUT, lots of F40PH remain with HEP on Commuter Railroads.

  The Boston Commuter Rail has 55 of them.  18 F40PH-2 built 1978-1980 (rebuilt 1989-1990), 25 F40PH-2C built 1987-1988, and 12 F40PH-2M built 1991-1993.  The also have 25 GP40-MC built 1997-1998.

I guess you mean they didn't have a separate diesel engine to power the HEP generator.  The original Amtrak F40PHs had the HEP generator gear driven off the prime mover.  The prime mover had to turning at Notch 8 speed (896 RPM)  in order to generate 60Hz from the HEP generator.  The gear boxes for the HEP generators were trouble spots, apparently, part of the reason NJT and MBTA went to Cummins HEP engine gen sets.

The F40PHs also had a HEP only mode - where they'd get 60Hz out of the AR10 traction alternator and feed it all to the HEP train line.

 

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by Ham549 on Thursday, January 17, 2008 4:16 PM
If they put an Inverter in the nose of the locomotive the engin wouldent have to be at a set RPM and you could get HEP off the genreator without needing a sepret AC altonator.
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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, January 18, 2008 1:34 PM

 Ham549 wrote:
If they put an Inverter in the nose of the locomotive the engin wouldent have to be at a set RPM and you could get HEP off the genreator without needing a sepret AC altonator.

You could do the 60Hz OK that way, but you'd need a way to regulate the voltage.  The DC buss voltage for traction varies all over the place!

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by DMUinCT on Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:34 AM

 Yep, and the carbody was slighty longer to provide room for the HEP diesel.  When new, they were often called PHLs.

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by Ham549 on Saturday, January 19, 2008 4:08 PM
Ah that is one of the knock off units. The best way to tell is looking at the side window closest to the front of the unit if the window is retanglear then it is a knock off if the window curves with the slope of the fron of the unit then it is EMD.
Save the F40PH!
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Posted by Mr_Ash on Saturday, January 19, 2008 5:09 PM

Oh brother.... When i said there just diffrent paint.... Sigh [sigh]

I was refering to someone saying that units amtrak sold or whatever are still running and dude said no he wants to save the amtrak ones Zzz [zzz]

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Posted by cprted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 6:45 PM
 Mr_Ash wrote:

Oh brother.... When i said there just diffrent paint.... Sigh [sigh]

I was refering to someone saying that units amtrak sold or whatever are still running and dude said no he wants to save the amtrak ones Zzz [zzz]

You'll notice the discussion goes round and round in this thread too. http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21532
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Posted by cnwfan51 on Monday, January 21, 2008 11:25 AM
   Whyn would you want to save an engine with a cracker box design and no personality you seen one so on and so on   Larry
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Posted by redwoodtower on Monday, January 21, 2008 4:19 PM
Hey, han549 saving an F-40 is a worthy cause as it does have a unique place in passenger train history; people may take you seriously if you were to use spell check and be more literate in your writing than a 2nd-grader.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 21, 2008 5:02 PM

 Ham549 wrote:
Ah that is one of the knock off units. The best way to tell is looking at the side window closest to the front of the unit if the window is retanglear then it is a knock off if the window curves with the slope of the fron of the unit then it is EMD.

There are knock-off units?

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Posted by snagletooth on Monday, January 21, 2008 5:23 PM
 santafe347 wrote:

 Ham549 wrote:
Ah that is one of the knock off units. The best way to tell is looking at the side window closest to the front of the unit if the window is retanglear then it is a knock off if the window curves with the slope of the fron of the unit then it is EMD.

There are knock-off units?

yes, Morrison- Knudsen and Bombadier have a black market scheme. Their made in sweat shops in Idaho and Canada.
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Posted by nssr9169 on Monday, January 21, 2008 7:15 PM
 snagletooth wrote:
 santafe347 wrote:

 Ham549 wrote:
Ah that is one of the knock off units. The best way to tell is looking at the side window closest to the front of the unit if the window is retanglear then it is a knock off if the window curves with the slope of the fron of the unit then it is EMD.

There are knock-off units?

yes, Morrison- Knudsen and Bombadier have a black market scheme. Their made in sweat shops in Idaho and Canada.

From what I can come up with, they offered two models, F40PH-2C and the F40PH-3C where the dash 3 series has a microprocessor, and a higher horsepower of 3,200. Only 23 were built of the dash 2 type and only 5 of the dash 3 series. I think what you are trying to do is great, they are unique units, but all is not lost since on any given day you can see lots of them toil away on Metra.

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Posted by cprted on Monday, January 21, 2008 11:43 PM
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/f40-418.htm

There you go Ham. For $275,000 it can be yours! (It runs too!)

You also need to get a spellchecker in your browser. They're free. It's just a matter of downloading one.
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Posted by arkansasrailfan on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 4:15 PM

 SSW9389 wrote:
Contact Ed Bowers at Vintage Locomotives Inc. and maybe your museum can get an F40PH. He has worked out deals with quite a few museums for display locomotives.  

Ed Bowers has a bunch of his engines at ARM.

One F40 has already been saved.(231)

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Posted by Southwest Chief on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:56 PM
Wish this sort of effort was put into saving a P30CH.  Such an Amtrak oddity.  Oh well.

Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, CO
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Posted by clash on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 7:18 PM
Does'nt the Ski train between Denver and winter park use ex Amtrak F40PH's?
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Posted by cprted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:08 AM
 clash wrote:
Does'nt the Ski train between Denver and winter park use ex Amtrak F40PH's?

It would appear so.
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Posted by Mr_Ash on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 3:02 AM

Mmm Ski train..... They were leasing engines from Amtrak for a few years after they stopped using the D&RGW GP60's, They got 242, 283, 289 on a lease to buy deal from Amtrak in 2000 and had them painted to match the train

You guys might find this site of interest.

http://www.on-track-on-line.com/amtkrinf-f40activ.shtml

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