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King Charles travels behind the Flying Scotsman

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King Charles travels behind the Flying Scotsman
Posted by NKP guy on Monday, June 12, 2023 2:45 PM

...on his June 12 visit to a tourist railroad in North Yorkshire.  A nice thing for several reasons.  HM even managed to squeeze onto the footplate (1:16).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPtVMuFTJ4g

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, June 12, 2023 4:34 PM

Interesting.  Thanks!

(Anyone besides me still having trouble getting used to hearing King Charles?)

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Posted by kgbw49 on Monday, June 12, 2023 5:44 PM

From the way things are shaping up there will be a His Majesty until probably 2100 or so with William and George on the ready track as protection power. (Needed to slip a railroad reference from the glory days of steam-powered passenger trains in there.)

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Posted by azrail on Tuesday, June 13, 2023 6:52 PM

Did he stoke the engine, like Sir Clarkson did on the Toronado?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 13, 2023 7:24 PM

azrail
Did he stoke the engine, like Sir Clarkson did on the Toronado?

The coal-burning GM turbines were Eldorados, not Toronados.

And I think the comparison ought to be with Prince Philip firing the Canadian locomotive while his wife was running... even if 'technically' that was oil firing rather than stoking.  Personally, I have little doubt that he both grasped the finer points of the technique, and did a good job for the, what was it, 15+ miles involved...

 

 

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, June 13, 2023 8:03 PM

Overmod

 azrail

Did he stoke the engine, like Sir Clarkson did on the Toronado?

 And I think the comparison ought to be with Prince Philip firing the Canadian locomotive while his wife was running...

 

The locomotive that hauled King Charles' train was Flying Scotsman

The Royal Scotsman is a luxury cruise train.

The Top Gear episode involved the Tornado, named after an RAF aircraft.

Peter

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Posted by 54light15 on Tuesday, June 13, 2023 8:15 PM

I've done the NYMR twice- it's a serious bit of railroad and those Yorkshiremen don't screw around. It's probably the best heritage railway in the U.K. 

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, June 14, 2023 6:55 AM

M636C
The Top Gear episode involved the Tornado, named after an RAF aircraft.

As I am excruciatingly well aware.  However, that was not what he typed.

I'm also excruciatingly aware of the problem with the thread title, and I hope he fixes it ASAP.  For heaven's sake, Flying Scotsman may be even better known than Mallard... even here.

(For the sake of completeness, there was apparently a diesel Toronado (with the infamous 5.7L) but I suspect you'd only do the ton going steeply downhill in it at best (it was rated 94 optimistic mph top speed) UNLESS you arranged turbocharging for it -- and then, probably briefly.)

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, June 14, 2023 10:05 AM

For those who watched NCIS, there was a model of "Mallard" in the medical examiner's office.  Regular viewers will know why it's there.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by NKP guy on Wednesday, June 14, 2023 11:59 AM

Overmod
I'm also excruciatingly aware of the problem with the thread title, and I hope he fixes it ASAP.

If I could, I would. 

I can't seem to fix my error, which I discovered only after posting.  I have no idea how it crept in, but it did and I own it.

If we gave demerits for mis-spelling and mis-labeling on this forum, I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one on KP duty or running laps around the field.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, June 14, 2023 4:11 PM

There used to be a little box with the thread title in it, visible only to whoever originated the thread.  A while back this acquired the amusing error that, if you edited what was in that line and had any kind of punctuation (such as apostrophes or ampersands in it) the display would be the BBcode or HTML for the 'special characters' -- a bunch of gibberish code.  I had a fairly recent post on EJ&E 660 appearing in Memphis, and actually had to go back and edit the subject line to use the word 'and' because I just couldn't stand looking at it.

I do think the ability to edit the thread title from the original post has disappeared, possibly only in the past month or so.  Perhaps a member of moderation still has a control they can use to access the title and fix it to 'Flying' ... but as with aaaaaaaaall the rest of the broken stuff they can't be bothered to pay to fix, I fear we will have to live with the pain.

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Wednesday, June 14, 2023 9:19 PM

Respectfully Suggest the locomotive the Duke Stoked, CN 6057,

in 1951 visit was Oil Fired. 

View the following on YouTube,

Across Canada With Princess Elizabeth Reel 2 (1951)

 at Time 2:01. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZCYKQAPGCc

 

Thank You.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, June 14, 2023 9:41 PM

I agree, by 1951 both CN and CP were well into a mass conversion from coal to oil firing for their remaining steam power out west.  This was as a result of large amounts of oil being discovered in Alberta starting in 1947. 

CN had used oil-fired steam in British Columbia for decades before this, with the terminal at Jasper, Alberta marking the divide between coal and oil.  6057 was one of a few oil-fired 4-8-2s that were assigned to this region, and she was a regular on transcontinental passenger trains for many years in the leadup to the 1951 Royal Tour. 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, June 15, 2023 9:08 AM

I didn't mention the oil firing, and have gone back and made it clearer.

There are wonderful photographs of the two of them being instructed and then 'at work' -- my very favorite picture of (in this case soon-to-be) EIIR is the one where she is listening attentively and marking every word, just a little unsure but 'up for' doing it right.  (Which, of course, she then did...)

Not this one... but it'll do.

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Posted by NKP guy on Thursday, June 15, 2023 10:09 AM

Fixed.

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Thursday, June 15, 2023 12:17 PM

Isn't he the guy who lost his head ?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, June 15, 2023 1:49 PM

BEAUSABRE

Isn't he the guy who lost his head ?

 
That was Charles I in 1649.  Charles II was deposed in the Glorious Revolution of 1688.  The name does not have a good record.
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
NDG
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Posted by NDG on Thursday, June 15, 2023 1:57 PM

I didn't mention the oil firing, and have gone back and made it clearer.

There are wonderful photographs of the two of them being instructed and then 'at work' -- my very favorite picture of (in this case soon-to-be) EIIR is the one where she is listening attentively and marking every word, just a little unsure but 'up for' doing it right.  (Which, of course, she then did...)

Not this one... but it'll do. 

I looked at the Video again, and the CN 6057 has the larger

Swivel Headlight for Curves. Control lines can be seen angling

across Smokebox Door.

Would like to see photographs mentioned? Please?

 

Thank You.

 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, June 15, 2023 2:36 PM

Overmod

(For the sake of completeness, there was apparently a diesel Toronado (with the infamous 5.7L) but I suspect you'd only do the ton going steeply downhill in it at best (it was rated 94 optimistic mph top speed) UNLESS you arranged turbocharging for it -- and then, probably briefly.)

At risk of dragging the thread even further off topic, when the Olds diesel V8 was being designed did all the car people forget about GM's two diesel divisions?  Did no one ever think to ask EMD or Detroit for advice on how to build a diesel engine?

It would be interesting to see someone swap a 3-53 into one of those cars, they make about the same horsepower and torque as the Olds V8 and would sound signifcantly better...... ....this guy put one in a Ford Ranger:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1WDZ-49BRQ

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, June 15, 2023 6:26 PM

Some further detail from the British on-line magazine "Railway Herald"

"On the 12th August 1925, King George V and Queen Mary visited the cab of Flying Scotsman (then on display at Wembley) and the king sat at the controls which were explained to him."

"Flying Scotsman last hauled a Royal Train on 20 November 1984 when it hauled the Queen Mother to North Woolwich where she opened a small railway museum."

If this is a complete list, it appears that the late Queen Elizabeth despite her long reign, didn't use Flying Scotsman.... so a whole generation was skipped.... But of course Elizabeth had a competing locomotive named after her, (LMS 6201) which did participate in her Golden Jubilee if I recall correctly...

Apparently, as part of a tradition, 4472 had its cab roof painted white as part of the prepration to haul the Royal Train. I assume it has returned to dark grey...

Peter

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Posted by NKP guy on Thursday, June 15, 2023 6:57 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
Charles II was deposed in the Glorious Revolution of 1688.  The name does not have a good record.

May I offer a correction?

Charles II died in 1685 and, having no legitimate heirs, was succeeded by his brother, James Duke of York (New York is named after him), who, upon succeeding to the throne became King James II.  It was King James II who was deposed/abdicated in 1688 as part of the Glorious Revolution.

Charles II's reign is often called the Restoration, a time of great creativity in the arts (and much else) in Great Britain.  

So it's a mixed record when it comes to the Stuarts.

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, June 15, 2023 7:01 PM

NDG

Respectfully Suggest the locomotive the Duke Stoked, CN 6057,

in 1951 visit was Oil Fired. 

View the following on YouTube,

Across Canada With Princess Elizabeth Reel 2 (1951)

 at Time 2:01. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZCYKQAPGCc

 

Thank You.

 

A similar tour of Australia was actually under way in 1952, at least HRH had reached South Africa by the time George VI died and the Queen returned to the UK.

My next door neighbour, an Army Colonel, had been appointed as the Princess' military aide for the 1952 visit to Australia.

The Queen did finally visit Australia in 1954 (but Colonel Hunter was no longer involved and had been posted to Washington.)

The actual Royal Visit is covered by:

The Queen In Australia (4K version here https://youtu.be/OCCpuB356IQ) - YouTube

The NSW Royal Train with two Montreal RSC-3s is seen at 45.55

The Victorian Royal Train with two Clyde EMD ML-2s is seen at 49:42

Peter

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, June 15, 2023 7:48 PM

GM actually had a pretty good idea about how to design an 'automotive-weight' light diesel, in the form of the 6.2 and then 6.5TD engines.  The only real issues as I recall with the 5.7 was that it needed a roller cam and a good turbocharger.  (I would note that the 6.5TD from the factory had only a piddling amount of boost pressure, the principle apparently being like the supercharger on a Merlin, to maintain 'sea-level' performance at higher altitudes.)

There are a bunch of issues associated with putting a 3-cylinder Jimmy in a car engineered for a 350 small-block.  Noise, deck height, vibration and balance are among them.  There's an interesting YouTube video out there about someone who put a 3-53 in one of the large late-'60s or early-'70s Chryslers, and it looks like about half the engine protrudes above where the hood line would go.  Not Hemi performance in acceleration, either.  On the other hand, I know of at least one Corvette with a 6.5TD in it (in one of the Scandinavian countries) and with marine injectors, the #9 resistor in the injection pump, and some other careful modifications the engine makes something like 315hp -- with the expected gobs of low-end torque.

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Thursday, June 15, 2023 10:10 PM

Thank You, Sir!

 

In 1951 we were curbside to watch the Motorcade pass at the end of our street.

When The King died in 1952, the lights on the Cross on Mount Royal above Montreal were changed from White to Purple,which could be seen from Streetcars downtown.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Royal_Cross

When The Queen passed, a ceremony was held at the Cenotaph 

here and we Sang ' God Save the King ' once again. ' 

I Cried, as did others.

A ' Had to be there ' moment, understanding just what had passed during our lives.

Thank You.

 

 

 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, June 15, 2023 10:27 PM

Putting a water separator on the Olds fuel system would probably have helped too, and I bet the 5.7 diesel didn't accelerate like a Hemi either. 

The engine sticking up out the hood is a performance enhancing feature, and you could hide it with an oversized hood scoop.  Just like how painting racing stripes on your car will make it go faster.  Or you could adopt the approach of that 1970 Roadrunner and lose the hood altogether (saves weight).  But I suppose these options might not suit the typical Oldsmobile sedan buyer. 

The 6.2 entered full production in 1982, about halfway through the Olds diesel V8's lifespan and after its problems had become known.  Perhaps it owes some of its longevity to the lessons learned from the failures of the Olds? 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Friday, June 16, 2023 2:04 AM

James was Duke of York and Albany - Fort Orange at the confluence of the North and Mohawk Rivers was renamed in honor of his second Dukdom. BTW, the four original counties in the colony were Kings (Brooklyn), Queens (As in the borough of NYC), Dutchess - yes, that's hoe it is spelled (Mid-Hudson, east side) and Dukes (West side - Current Rockland and Ulster counties). Second fun fact, each of the five boroughs of NYC is also a county (example Borough of Brooklyn is County of Kings)

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, June 16, 2023 7:47 AM

The problem with the 3-53 sticking up out of the bodywork is that it just looks funny, like something Wile E Coyote would drive (ironic ain't it??).  It does not help that the supercharger is on the side, and doesn't have a scoop with butterflies.

I haven't seen anyone put a 'built' 4BT with twins in anything yet, but you could easily build one to produce 750hp or better.  Gear Vendors overdrive time!

The 5.7 had very carefully implemented water separation -- about on a par with what I had on the diesel Lincoln.  You did have to know it was there, and periodically drain the bottom of the reservoir.  I spoze the intended clientele (remember the Lincoln had a sticker price nearly $50,000... in 1985) would have this done at regular scheduled service.

THANK YOU for correcting that subject line!

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Posted by M636C on Friday, June 16, 2023 4:36 PM

NDG

Thank You, Sir!

 

In 1951 we were curbside to watch the Motorcade pass at the end of our street.

When The King died in 1952, the lights on the Cross on Mount Royal above Montreal were changed from White to Purple,which could be seen from Streetcars downtown.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Royal_Cross

When The Queen passed, a ceremony was held at the Cenotaph 

here and we Sang ' God Save the King ' once again. ' 

I Cried, as did others.

A ' Had to be there ' moment, understanding just what had passed during our lives.

Thank You.

 

 

 

 

I was born in 1948, so I don't remember George VI at all, except as a face on the coins. I do recall the Coronation celebrations of 1953. We joined our neighbours and drove down to Sydney Harbour, parking beneath the Harbour Bridge approaches. You couldn't imagine doing that now. The Royal Australian Navy had its major ships illuminated, and there were fireworks, much like New Years Eve more recently.

For the Queen's visit we stood on the roof of the offices my father worked in and I clearly remember the Queen passing in an open black Daimler.

For the Queen's second visit in 1963, it was a terrible wet and cold day, but I stood on the platforms of the elevated railway station at Circular Quay, and photographed the arrival of the Britannia and its two Navy escorts, and the Queen departing in a glass topped maroon Rolls Royce.

Peter

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