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2102 Suffers Failure, SD50s used in her place

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2102 Suffers Failure, SD50s used in her place
Posted by Harrison on Monday, October 10, 2022 7:27 PM

I headed down to the Reading & Northern for 2102 on Saturday, but unfortunately, the firing table failed and the T1 had to be removed from the train. We had a good time anyway, as seen below.

https://youtu.be/3GKNOQ4KnOk

Harrison

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Modeling the D&H in 1978.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, October 10, 2022 9:09 PM

Is a firing table another name for a grate?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, October 10, 2022 10:05 PM

MidlandMike

Is a firing table another name for a grate?

 

I believe the firing table is a component of the automatic stoking system, it's a "tray" where the coal is delivered before it's sprayed into the firebox by steam jets.

According to Andy Muller's message apologizing for 2102's failure it was supposed to be a NEW firing table!  I hope he gets a refund!  

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Posted by rixflix on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 9:33 AM

I was wondering why the R&N website showed the October 29 trip (even the Pullman rooms) as "sold out". I was ready to buy tickets. Dang!

Rick

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 1:00 PM

I think those R&N trips are sold out almost as soon as they're posted!  That is one popular railroad!

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 1:38 PM

Nothing to see here: there was damage to the table ahead of the stoker distributor, the plate off which the steam jets distribute the coal to different zones in the firebox.  They'll replace the casting.

The interesting thing is that, according to a somewhat mysterious post on RyPN, this is the second time the firing table on 2102 has started to crumble.  That would be unusual enough to have me question how the foundry is making these up.  

Don't go into "why didn't they hand-fire it and push it with the SD50s?"

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Posted by Harrison on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 7:19 PM

Overmod

 

Don't go into "why didn't they hand-fire it and push it with the SD50s?"

 

And then you have the people asking "why didn't they put 425 on the train when 2102 failed?" Some people don't understand how many hours it takes to prepare and fire a locomotive. 

Harrison

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Modeling the D&H in 1978.

Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"

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Posted by pennytrains on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 7:21 PM

If they could have found enough rope I suspect they could have gotten all the help they would need to push and pull the locomotive by "manpower".  Smile, Wink & Grin

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 8:28 PM

Only 2124, of the preserved T1s, has the roller bearings...

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 9:03 PM

Harrison
 
Overmod

Don't go into "why didn't they hand-fire it and push it with the SD50s?" 

And then you have the people asking "why didn't they put 425 on the train when 2102 failed?" Some people don't understand how many hours it takes to prepare and fire a locomotive. 

You mean they don't just flip a switch and have 200 pounds of boiler pressure[/sarcasm]

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 9:46 PM

Harrison
And then you have the people asking "why didn't they put 425 on the train when 2102 failed?" Some people don't understand how many hours it takes to prepare and fire a locomotive. 

Not just that, but 425 couldn't handle a consist that big by itself, not in that terrain, and probably not even in the flatlands it was originally built for. It would need a diesel assist any way you look at it.   

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:29 PM

Overmod
Nothing to see here: there was damage to the table ahead of the stoker distributor, the plate off which the steam jets distribute the coal to different zones in the firebox.  They'll replace the casting.

The interesting thing is that, according to a somewhat mysterious post on RyPN, this is the second time the firing table on 2102 has started to crumble.  That would be unusual enough to have me question how the foundry is making these up.  

Don't go into "why didn't they hand-fire it and push it with the SD50s?"

Is it known if the piece is cast iron or cast steel?

Cast iron, so I have been told, doesn't handle differential heating very well without cracking.  

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 6:27 AM

Most of the parts of a stoker like the HT-1 are cast steel.  The firing table is cast iron.

 http://www.multipowerinternational.com/spec/table.pdf

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 9:22 AM

Overmod

Most of the parts of a stoker like the HT-1 are cast steel.  The firing table is cast iron.

 http://www.multipowerinternational.com/spec/table.pdf

 

I wonder if it was new cast iron or questionable recycled material?

At any rate Andy Muller should ask for a refund!  Wink

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 14, 2022 10:42 AM

There is some interesting technical discussion about this on RyPN.  Apparently the firing table was considered a 'wearing' part with limited lifetime on the Reading, and there were special tools used to keep the 'heel' at the back of the grate clear of the firing-table structure.

Note that the drawing I posted is from a company in New Jersey that offers HT-1 parts for sale, including firing tables.  They might be a sensible source for information on what caused this problem, what the technical basis for the 'crumbling' was, and what instructions go to the foundry to prevent an "encore presentation".

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Posted by D.Carleton on Sunday, October 16, 2022 6:56 PM

I've ridden behind many 4-8-4s including the RDG species. But I've never been pulled by SD50s. Sorry I missed it.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 10:06 AM

D.Carleton

I've ridden behind many 4-8-4s including the RDG species. But I've never been pulled by SD50s. Sorry I missed it.

 
Not a blasphemous thought.Yeah  There have been a variety of fantrips pulled by diesels because they were a specific model.  The Reading & Northern diesels on this trip did have the special "Fast Freight" paint job, making them somewhat special in their own right.
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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 11:35 AM

I've always likes SD50s since I first saw a pair at speed.  (They will be enormously rare in preservation!)

Word is now in: the crew had a problem with debris in or on the steam jets that caused coal to build up on the firing table long enough for the coal to ignite and heat the table by conduction.  Multiple firing tables had been made up, so it turned out to be straightforward to replace with the engine cold.  This has already been done, and 2102 will 'make up for it' by running an excursion that was supposed to be 425's swan song before 1472-day.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 3:40 PM

Is it possible that the coal was dirty enough to clog the jets ?.   barely recall some out fit noted it received "poor" coal.  do not know coal is prepared.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 3:51 PM

Overmod
I've always likes SD50s since I first saw a pair at speed.  (They will be enormously rare in preservation!)

Word is now in: the crew had a problem with debris in or on the steam jets that caused coal to build up on the firing table long enough for the coal to ignite and heat the table by conduction.  Multiple firing tables had been made up, so it turned out to be straightforward to replace with the engine cold.  This has already been done, and 2102 will 'make up for it' by running an excursion that was supposed to be 425's swan song before 1472-day.

Doesn't the fireman have on the engine deck or tender tools that are able to knock coal build up off the firing table when it is observed, before it can damage the firing table from differential heating stresses on cast iron?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 5:04 PM

blue streak 1
Is it possible that the coal was dirty enough to clog the jets?

Coal doesn't go through the jets; only steam does.  Personally I find it unlikely that fired coal can plug or stick to the nozzles to keep them from acting correctly, but I have not yet seen pictures of the situation that would clarify this.

Someone on RyPN has mentioned that there is a special tool, shaped a bit like a hockey stick, that is meant to clear any 'heel' at the back of the firebox that might overheat the firing-table casting.  This tool should logically serve to clear any accumulation of coal or glassy ash that might be adhering to the table or overheating it by conduction.

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Posted by pennytrains on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 6:15 PM

This discussion just goes to show that I don't belong in the cab of a steam locomotive.  Dunce

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 6:16 PM

Overmod
 
blue streak 1
Is it possible that the coal was dirty enough to clog the jets? 

Coal doesn't go through the jets; only steam does.  Personally I find it unlikely that fired coal can plug or stick to the nozzles to keep them from acting correctly, but I have not yet seen pictures of the situation that would clarify this. 

Someone on RyPN has mentioned that there is a special tool, shaped a bit like a hockey stick, that is meant to clear any 'heel' at the back of the firebox that might overheat the firing-table casting.  This tool should logically serve to clear any accumulation of coal or glassy ash that might be adhering to the table or overheating it by conduction.

The use of a tool, requires someone to realize that the tool needs to be used.  The Fireman has to do more than just manipulate the controls of the stoker - he has to observe the fire in the firebox as well as the operation of all the parts of the stoker including recognizing that there is a situation that is going to damage the firing table and resolving that situation before there is damage.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 7:48 PM

pennytrains

This discussion just goes to show that I don't belong in the cab of a steam locomotive.  Dunce

 

Me neither, but wow would I love to give it a shot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, October 18, 2022 7:49 PM

D.Carleton

I've ridden behind many 4-8-4s including the RDG species. But I've never been pulled by SD50s. Sorry I missed it.

 

Folks riding behind those SD50's could have done a lot worse.  Those are some classy looking diesels!  

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Posted by D.Carleton on Wednesday, October 19, 2022 6:03 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
D.Carleton

I've ridden behind many 4-8-4s including the RDG species. But I've never been pulled by SD50s. Sorry I missed it.

Not a blasphemous thought.Yeah  There have been a variety of fantrips pulled by diesels because they were a specific model.  The Reading & Northern diesels on this trip did have the special "Fast Freight" paint job, making them somewhat special in their own right.

Back in 1995 for the NRHS convention there was to be a trip on the RBM&N behind the RDG FP-7s. There was an issue and ultimately the trip was pulled by two company GE U-boats. That will never happen again, ever. Ergo, I am grateful for the substitution.

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Posted by Harrison on Friday, October 28, 2022 7:09 PM

We're back for the southbound chase, but not before some action in the Lehigh Gorge.

https://youtu.be/Cg-OxxWmU90

Harrison

Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.

Modeling the D&H in 1978.

Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"

My YouTube

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, October 29, 2022 11:51 AM

As a note:  One of the Chessie Steam Specials was unexpectedly 'dieselized' circa 1977, and the substitute power included an early SD (7 or 9) in full Chessie paint.  I confess that I was so angry about the absence of steam power that I didn't take notes...

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