We all know about the 611
That's it, the only one.
.
Cat, it's almost a miracle we've still got 611. See if you can find a copy of "Steams Camelot" by Jim Wrinn, the story of the Southern/ Norfolk-Southern steam programs. It tells the story (among others) of 611's preservation and how Graham and Bob Claytor were willing to get their knuckles bloody to save her.
A good read, and it'll make you appreciate what we owe to those two men.
I never heard of the Claytor's involvement in preserving her. Are you sure you aren't talking about their role in her restoration for excursions during the 1980's for the Norfolk Southern steam program?
She had been safely in preservation for decades before that. As far as I'm aware, it was O. Winston Link that led the campaign which resulted in N&W begrudgingly donating her to the Virginia Museum of Transportation in 1960. She entered preservation far more smoothly than most other extant N&W steam did like A class 1218, the only survivor of a famous class of modern articulated steam power that was saved no thanks to Norfolk & Western.
As for the topic question, I wonder why the creator just didn't look for himself. He could've found his answer with a 30 second internet search and he had to of known it was an easy question since he's clearly aware of the 611's status and the classes fame in general judging by his post. It's always good form to attempt to answer your own question first before asking other people to answer it.
If he has any other questions about the status of surviving steam, here's an excellent resource to start with.
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/lists/
Is there a full moon tonight?
Sorry, Jim, the moon is renewed tomorrow evening.
Johnny
To Leo Ames:
Certainly O. Winston Link was involved in the efforts to save 611 in 1959, but it was the Claytors (Graham, a high-powered DC attorney at the time with strong connections, and Robert who was part of the N&W law department) who had the "pull" to make it happen.
Graham eventually wore down Stuart Saunders, the N&W president at the time, saying late on he'd argued the preservation of 611 as hard as he'd argued any courtroom case, and Bob quietly kept an eye on the locomotive in Roanoke to prevent any efforts to permanently disable it.
As an aside, it was Graham Claytor who signed my commission as a Marine First Lieutenant in 1977, being Secretary of the Navy at the time. Not being a railfan then the name didn't mean anything to me aside from the obvious, but I treasure that commision paper now!
Thanks for clarifying it for me since I wasn't sure if you were talking about her preservation or her restoration where of course the Claytor's involvement was always front and center and in clear view of the public.
You're welcome Leo! And if you can, see if you can find yourself a copy of "Steams Camelot". This may seem like a commercial for it, but I can recommend it highly. A very entertaining and at times poingnant and moving story of the Southern and Norfolk-Southern steam programs and the demise of same in 1994.
Hard to believe that there more Union Pacific Big Boys left that J Class locomotives.How many other railroads made their own like The N & W did when it comes to the 611?
Well, there are exactly 0 (zero) NYC Hudsons left!
BigJim Well, there are exactly 0 (zero) NYC Hudsons left!
And THAT'S an atrocity we've spoken about often on the Forum, let me tell 'ya!
Not the only tragedy --- Burlington O-5 Pocono Greenbrier
I sure hope the K4 gets the attention it needs and can run again!
Again, what is the state of the one saved Mowhawk?
daveklepperAgain, what is the state of the one saved Mowhawk?
Two saved Mohawks. (And yes, that's amazing!)
Cosmetically the one at the National Museum of Transportation looks pretty good, although I'm sure it's in no way close to running condition.
The one in Elkhardt Indiana at the New York Central Society museum is, well, there. Last pictures I saw of it it looked pretty rough. All together mind you, but rough.
Firelock76 Cosmetically the one at the National Museum of Transportation looks pretty good, although I'm sure it's in no way close to running condition. The one in Elkhardt Indiana at the New York Central Society museum is, well, there. Last pictures I saw of it it looked pretty rough. All together mind you, but rough.
Not quite national. Last time I was in St. Louis I managed to sneak a peak at 2933; the paint is on and it appears only in want of decals. She's definitely one of the more beautiful engines at the museum, but if anything's gonna get restored, it'll be a different Mountain, this one just a bit louder.
I should have said "the Mohawk in the museum in Saint Louis." I keep confusing the name. Beg pardon.
It's fine. I've called it that a time or two myself. There's only so many variants on "Transportation Museum."
Firelock76 The one in Elkhart, Indiana at the New York Central Society museum is, well, there. Last pictures I saw of it it looked pretty rough. All together mind you, but rough.
The one in Elkhart, Indiana at the New York Central Society museum is, well, there. Last pictures I saw of it it looked pretty rough. All together mind you, but rough.
There was some interest last year in restoring this locomotive, but alas, money issues got in the way.
rrnut282 Firelock76 The one in Elkhart, Indiana at the New York Central Society museum is, well, there. Last pictures I saw of it it looked pretty rough. All together mind you, but rough. There was some interest last year in restoring this locomotive, but alas, money issues got in the way.
I'm not surprised man, it takes BIG money to bring one of those things back. They'd need a massive fundraiser a' la 611, or an "angel" with deep pockets.
Then of course they need a place to run it. I'm not sure of the old NYC mainline through Elkhardt is CSX or Norfolk-Southern now. If it's NS, they're OK, if it's CSX forget it.
CSX took that part of Conrail.
"Then of course they need a place to run it. I'm not sure of the old NYC mainline through Elkhardt is CSX or Norfolk-Southern now. If it's NS, they're OK, if it's CSX forget it."
The old NYC main line from Cleveland to Chicago belongs to Norfolk Southern.
Mike
After 611, and the Big Boy, the Mowhawk would be next on my list, then the ACL USRA Pacific
Oooops, forgot about a GG1 with two AEM-7DC control and electrical processing equipmen sets inside. Original motors, quill drives, and mechanicals, so can run anywhere on the NEC and connections.
daveklepper Oooops, forgot about a GG1 with two AEM-7DC control and electrical processing equipmen sets inside. Original motors, quill drives, and mechanicals, so can run anywhere on the NEC and connections.
No, not original motors - they are spec'd for 25Hz and are not ideal. The AEM-7 controls worked with 25Hz input current, but most certainly weren't optimized to produce output current the 627s would like; however, it might be interesting to see whether (given the low effective cost of reusing obsolescent AEM-7 electronics as those locomotives are retired) it would be cost-effective to build an AC drive to supply them.
In my opinion it would be better to replace the twin motors with a more modern design that would fit the existing gearcase and bull gear. I have at least one quote (from ASEA) regarding what that would have cost in the 1970s...
Probably not necessary to motor all six drive axles for 'restored' service. Certainly worth doing, even if the result is far more 'hot rod' than classic restoration... ;-}
The IC had homegrown locos
I rode the CB&Q's 0-5A #5632 on fan trips in the 60's & 70's. One of the finest I have ridden and its demise was a tragedy.
I don't believe there is any reason why an ac-commutator motor would not work just as well on dc as on the alternating current for which it is designed. There is built in compensation in the motor for the alternation, that is unnecessary in a dc motor, but this does not prevent the motor from performing equally well on dc or on a lower frequnecy ac than the design called for. Similar motors were under the EP-2 EP-3, and EP-4 NYNH&H "motors", and these ran into GCT on dc power without any problem. From what I was told, they ran cooler under dc power than ac! YOu can check this with a competant motor designer with an EE degree, and that engineer will confirm this, I am certain. I have an EE degree, but designed transformers (power to ultrasonic) and not motors, and then sound system equipment, and did not design motors. But I understand the principles involved and am sure of my evaluation of what an ac-commutator motor will do on dc.
The AEM-7-DC electronics and electrical equpment was all designed and built for both 25Hz and 60Hz, and both 11:000V and 25000V (60Hz only for the latter) and some are still in service under all these voltage and frequency conditions. It is reliable enough equipment, and with the original GG-1 motors rewound with modern insulation runniing on dc, the locomotive should be "hot" enough! Let us not make the expense astromomical, and by all means let us have all driver axles powered.
I also rode behind 5632 and regret it was not saved. Like Pennsy power, the looks of CB&Q power is somewhat an acquired taste, kind of "homey." When I see pictures of an O-1 or an O-4, I think of Kansas wheat fields, corn, etc. And a get lump in my throat. And once, in La Grange, looking out the window of a restaurant near the Stone Avenue Station, I saw a genuine CB&Q 2-6-2, summer 1952. Appearance-wise, looked like an O-1 shunk a tiny bit with a missing driver wheel. Did it have Stephenson valve gear and slide-valves originally?
I must have used the CB&Q main between Chi-Denver about 20 times total trips, including a few Kleibolt specials behind 5632.. Milwaukee, possibly twice. C&NW maybe once.
eagle1030 Firelock76 Cosmetically the one at the National Museum of Transportation looks pretty good, although I'm sure it's in no way close to running condition. The one in Elkhardt Indiana at the New York Central Society museum is, well, there. Last pictures I saw of it it looked pretty rough. All together mind you, but rough. Not quite national. Last time I was in St. Louis I managed to sneak a peak at 2933; the paint is on and it appears only in want of decals. She's definitely one of the more beautiful engines at the museum, but if anything's gonna get restored, it'll be a different Mountain, this one just a bit louder.
Funny thing is, the moment you a writing this, the 2933 is undergoing restoration, and has been. FOR NINE YEARS!!!!!!!!
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.