1860 era train needed

[mmdicmft]

Building a theme park in Arizona and need to find working or rebuild able system. Read 'IRON HORSES PUT OUT TO PASTURE" and what a shame. If anyone knows how to contact some of these folks, help me reach them to restore life to a few and past on the history to the next generations. Thanks

[cx500]

I would suggest your best and only solution is to build replicas.  That way you start with a new boiler that meets modern standards and should provide many years of relatively trouble-free service.  Trying to restore and operate 150 year old equipment will be a constant expensive headache unless you update everything, so that original "1860s" train has vanished anyway.  Pretty well anything that survived from that era has received a great deal of rebuilding and updating.  Building new will allow recreation of the cosmetic features of the era with modern day materials and components underneath. It is likely the cheapest option.

There is a conflict between conservation and operation of historic pieces.  The more you replace to keep it running, the less authentic the artifact becomes.  For rolling stock, it will be impossible to include accessibility  features without destroying heritage.

Nor can I believe that there is much in the way of 1860s era equipment that is not highly treasured by the current custodians.  Move up 50 years to 1910 and availability improves somewhat but any restoration will remain hugely expensive.  Everything is more massive.

I believe the display at Promontory Point uses modern replicas, so it can be done.  Maybe you can buy or borrow copies of the plans from them.  I believe another replica of that style was unveiled to the public at the 2009 steamfest in Michigan.

John

[Firelock76]

There's always Barnhardt used railroad equipment sales.  Some amusement parks operated 19th century type live steam trains up to pretty recently, mostly 36" gauge and built by Crown Products.  Maybe they've got something.

[tdmidget]

You are "building a theme park in Arizona"? I live in Tucson and neither I nor Google has heard about it.

"Theme park" or "Scheme park"?

[Deggesty]

cx500

I believe the display at Promontory Point uses modern replicas

John

John, you do mean Promontory Summit, do you not? Promontory Point is a point that projects out into the Great Salt Lake, and the UP's line that crosses the lake passes through Promontory Point. Don't be embarrassed; even people who live in this area are confused as to the name of the place where the CP and UP were officially joined.

[MJChittick]

cx500

I believe the display at Promontory Point uses modern replicas, so it can be done.  Maybe you can buy or borrow copies of the plans from them.  I believe another replica of that style was unveiled to the public at the 2009 steamfest in Michigan.

The replica locomotive that debuted at the 2009 Owasso, MI Train Festival was the "Leviathan".  Following are some links related to that engine:

http://trn.trains.com/~/link.aspx?_id=B0B7D815911249CC8E58D6623EB7C71F

http://trn.trains.com/~/link.aspx?_id=358552E8F9F840F3BF553EA9D56543F0

http://trn.trains.com/~/link.aspx?_id=B0785BAA9EC749CB8A45B51F2559724D

Finally, here is a link to the company that built the replica Leviathan. 

http://www.leviathan63.com/

 

[cx500]

 

Deggesty

 

cx500:

 

I believe the display at Promontory Point uses modern replicas

John

 

John, you do mean Promontory Summit, do you not? Promontory Point is a point that projects out into the Great Salt Lake, and the UP's line that crosses the lake passes through Promontory Point. Don't be embarrassed; even people who live in this area are confused as to the name of the place where the CP and UP were officially joined.

 

I stand corrected. 

Of course, coming from Canada I think the completion of the CPR in 1885 from Montreal to Vancouver marks the first true transcontinental railroad, defined as one railroad from coast to coast.  Vancouver is on the Pacific coast and Montreal was the limit of navigation up the St.Lawrence River for Atlantic Ocean vessels. By the end of the decade CPR reached actual tidewater at Quebec City and Saint John, open to year round navigation..

In 1869 there were at least three railroads involved just to get from California to Chicago, and more to continue east.  It was indeed the first connection of the rail networks on the east and west coasts of North America and a notable feat.  But the Union Pacific and Central Pacific were only two of the many connecting roads that formed that first physical transcontinental route, even if they were the critical pair that completed it.  For whatever reason, of that pair the Union Pacific gets stardom and the Central Pacific frequently little more than a casual mention.

As an aside, in more modern times CPR retreated back to Montreal as its eastern limit.  Icebreakers now keep the St.Lawrence open through the winter months and Montreal has become a year-round port.

John

 

 

[mmdicmft]

Well here is one link for you.

http://www.sangres.com/arizona/places/pinal/eloy.htm

To get answers one must ask the right question, google doesn't always have them. Been there done that  before.

There is some news on the park and some bad. Take things with a grain of salt. MOst of the negative remarks I find relate back to the former project manager who was let go due to chances not approved or not what we  had outlined in the master plan. Thanks

Thanks to the other good folks for their suggestions, too

[locoi1sa]

10.8% unemployment! You should not have a problem finding park workers. Finding customers is another thing.

    Pete

[uphogger]

Actually, the name of the place is "Promontory", period.  You are correct about the location of "Promontory Point."  Yeah, I know, it sometimes is referred to as "Promontory Summit", but the UP timetable name was just the one word, from what I've read.  As for the UP having prominence in history, marketing is everything.  CP faded off into nonexistence, the property having been taken over by the Southern Pacific.  Indeed, the route over Promontory was an SP secondary until its removal during WW2.  I'm gonna try and get out there for the reenactment this year.  Fun place to go exploring.

[jumper]

HI, The Leviathan is going to be at TrainFestival2011 in Rock Island Illinois this summer. More details can be found at: http://www.trainfestival2011.com/

[jumper]

Hi, The Leviathan will be at Train Festival 2011 this summer in Rock Island, Illinois. More info can be found at: http://www.trainfestival2011.com/ Regards,

[Southerngreen1401]

It would be easier to build new replica.  Even NS does not think the three Southern replica of the Best Friend of Charleston which is a 1827 design will be running for their 200 th birthday.

[tdmidget]

mmdicmft; read a little closer. This a rediculous pipe dream. I pass through Eloy regularly and is no such project under way. Yeah the city said they "support" it . They will support anything that might find it's way there.  For an example of how dumb it is look at their site, with a guitar and a "route 66" sign. Route 66 never came within 250 miles of Eloy.

Note that the OP said he as "building" the park. Not dreaming, planning, designing, but building. An it's supposed to be a musical theme, not railroad.

Lot of room between being "supported" and "building". We can't even keep our state parks open (and there's one within 20 miles of Eloy, Picacho Peak), and there is virtually ZERO tourist traffic between Tucson and Phoenix. If you slow down to look at something you would be taking your life in your hands in the bumper to bumper 85 MPH local traffic.

I think he's dreaming. I fail to see what rock music has to do with 1860 style railroads. And I don't believe he's moved one shovel full of dirt.

 

[samfp1943]

mmdicmft

Well here is one link for you.

http://www.sangres.com/arizona/places/pinal/eloy.htm     (Copied to fix link in Thread)

To get answers one must ask the right question, google doesn't always have them. Been there done that  before.

There is some news on the park and some bad. Take things with a grain of salt. MOst of the negative remarks I find relate back to the former project manager who was let go due to chances not approved or not what we  had outlined in the master plan. Thanks

Thanks to the other good folks for their suggestions, too

FTL:"...The Southern Pacific Railroad built a switch and section house here in 1902 and named the settlement "Eloi" (which was shortly changed to Eloy after the Spanish word for "My God!"). In 1916, 3 former California cotton farmers came to the area and set up shop. They farmed their properties for a couple years, then decided to subdivide and promote a new community called "Cotton City." The Southern Pacific didn't like the new name and carried all mail addressed to Cotton City right on through. With that situation, the postal service also rejected the name Cotton City and stuck with Eloy.

   Today, Eloy is rated as the 4th fastest growing population center in Arizona and now covers more than 99 square miles. The official City of Eloy website says there is a major theme park slated for construction in the area (which development is being seriously challenged by the present economic situation), but for now, the largest single employer in Eloy is Corrections Corporation of America (and the prisoners they keep are included in the census figures). Eloy is also home to Skydive Arizona, the world's largest Skydive Dropzone..."

[The above is from the quote and linked above]

Just a Note; I would caution about about a 'Coming Attraction' . Particularly, a theme park styed event.

Some times these things can be presented as an immediately happening event while the "promoter" is long on ideas and rhetoric, while short on the monies needed. Grandiose ideas and words can excite investors, but when the time comes to see the project take place all the money has gone for 'promotion'. 

A 'gentleman' here in the Wichita area,just this last year was sent to spend time at one of our fine Kansas correctional facilities for just such a projected, themed park with a Cowboy/Western Theme Park that failed to materialize under similar circumstances as described above. 

You may feel the viberations, hear the bell, and smell the smoke, but be cautious until you can reach out and touch the locomotive in front of you.

[Deggesty]

samfp1943

FTL:"...The Southern Pacific Railroad built a switch and section house here in 1902 and named the settlement "Eloi" (which was shortly changed to Eloy after the Spanish word for "My God!").

"Eloi" is Aramaic for "My God" (see Matthew 27:46). Perhaps the founders knew their Bible.

[Falcon48]

Deggesty

cx500:

I believe the display at Promontory Point uses modern replicas

John

 

John, you do mean Promontory Summit, do you not? Promontory Point is a point that projects out into the Great Salt Lake, and the UP's line that crosses the lake passes through Promontory Point. Don't be embarrassed; even people who live in this area are confused as to the name of the place where the CP and UP were officially joined.

Coorect.  The Promentory locos are replicas.  There's also a very neat touring replica called the "Eureka" 

[JamesP]

Although the Promontory engines are replicas, "Eureka" is the real thing built in 1875... God Bless Dan Markoff for brining her back to life!

Here is an article: http://archive.durangoherald.com/asp-bin/article_generation.asp?article_type=out&article_path=/outdoors/out030825.htm

 - James

[cefinkjr]

cx500

Of course, coming from Canada I think the completion of the CPR in 1885 from Montreal to Vancouver marks the first true transcontinental railroad, defined as one railroad from coast to coast.

John

Sorry, John, but you and CPR missed by 30 years.  The Panama Railroad, "... one railroad from coast to coast...", ran a revenue train between the Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean in 1855.  

[awalker1829]

With all due respect to the original poster and the people of Eloy, there isn't much there. People do associate Eloy with recreation, but not trains. Eloy is associated with skydiving and the Picacho Peak park area. In fact, the airport and skydiving center are the only attractions that draw the most visitors who are non locals. As for financing? We're cutting pubic safety funding-laying off police officers and parking fire engines since that's the only part of the budget that hasn't already been gutted.

[cx500]

cefinkjr

 

cx500:

Of course, coming from Canada I think the completion of the CPR in 1885 from Montreal to Vancouver marks the first true transcontinental railroad, defined as one railroad from coast to coast.

 

John

 

 

Sorry, John, but you and CPR missed by 30 years.  The Panama Railroad, "... one railroad from coast to coast...", ran a revenue train between the Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean in 1855.  

OK, I 'll give you that one.  But something that was really little more than a portage railroad is stretching a bit..  I'm guessing north of the Rio Grande the SP would be the first US single line transcontinental, connecting the Pacific with the Gulf Coast.

Cheers, John