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SP 4-8-4 4460

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  • Member since
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SP 4-8-4 4460
Posted by SPer on Saturday, December 29, 2007 2:36 PM
what ever became of Southern Pacific 4-8-4 4460. Will the 4460 run again.
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Canada
  • 509 posts
Posted by cprted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 9:53 PM


Sitting in a museum in Missouri.


It could run again, as anything is possible. Don't hold your breath though. There is nothing online that indicates a restoration effort--beyond a new coat of paint--is even being considered.
The grey box represents what the world would look like without the arts. Don't Torch The Arts--Culture Matters http://www.allianceforarts.com/
  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: Wylie, Texas
  • 259 posts
Posted by UNIONPACIFIC4018 on Sunday, December 30, 2007 12:39 PM
I know the 4449 and the other locomotives are trying to raise funds to relocate seems it would be more beneficial to assist the one running, than the one not.
Sean Steam is still king
  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Levenworth, WA.
  • 156 posts
Posted by SP4460 on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:03 AM
It could be done… and with enough cash it will be done. Its a dream of mine that one day I will help get her running... and maybe if we are lucky do a run with the 4449.
  • Member since
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  • From: Austin, TX
  • 462 posts
Posted by 4merroad4man on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 9:23 AM

Any restoration to operation of 4460 is problematic at best. While a handsome locomotive, it has little historical significance apart from being on the final steam powered excursion on SP.  The issues, while not insurmountable, are defintely there:

1.  Condition.  The locomotive sits beneath a train shed canopy, but is exposed to the elements to a degree.  A full mechancial inspection would be required, and if I am not mistaken, she was looked at a long time ago as a candidate for the American Freedom Train and later as an operational engine when Frisco 1522 was ultimately selected to represent the museum as a railroad ambassador.  If that is true, then why was she rejected?  The mechanical inspection, by competent railroad steam mechanical personnel will project an apporoximate cost for the mechanical and cosmetic portion of the restoration.  This does not include insurance, cost of moving it to a place where heavy equipment can get to it for work, and housing it under full cover to protect the restoration from the elements, theives and vandals among other expenses.

 2.  Availability.  Part of this should actually be placed ahead of Condition.  Is the locomotive available for a restoration?  Some groups are content to let the thing rot in the equivalent of a public scrapyard, with park benches and a flowered entrance.  Other groups would assist in the effort to some degree; in any event, unless the owners are doing the restoration, it is likely that the answer would be a resounding "no" or at least "show us the money".  Availability also includes availability of skilled personnel to do the lion's share of the work; rarely is this a "learn as you go" proposition.  Availability of parts and materials is another.  Cash will help with the materials, but the railroads made large quantities of their own parts during steam days, and the old line manufacturers that made other parts, tools and supplies are hard to find and aftermarket stuff, while out there is tough to get as well.  Other groups who have successfully restored operating locomotives could be of some help in this regard.  Again, get your cash ready.

3.  Laws and Ordinances.  You will be handling hazardous materials, and large items and debris will require disposal as well.  You will need to deal with City and local officials in an honest and compliant manner.  You will incur costs here as well, for disposal and refuse collection, fees, etc.

4.  Insurance.  People trip, fall, get owies and want to sue.  The public has no clue how dangerous something like this is and they too may get hurt.  The locomotive itself must be financially protected from damages resulting from anything from a tornado to a kid with kerosene and a match.  Insurance ain't cheap, and we haven't even started talking about running the engine yet.

5.  If you get this far, you may actually be spending some time putting a wrench or two on a bolt or two.  And if you get through a host of other issues during the rebuild, you may actually get to fire it up......if you have enough insurance, Union Pacific doesn't step in and argue you can't because it is one of "their" predecessor road locomotives, the EPA doesn't hound you about smoke and fuel oil isn't sitting at 15 bucks a gallon.  Oh and where will you run it?  Railroads tend to be leery of things like this; steam locomotives require massive logistics, expenses and time.  Dealing with unimpressed railroad officials is a lot of fun, and takes tremendous amounts of tact and interpersonal skills, and less enthusiasm and "buffiness".

I don't mean to shut down any hopes or dreams here, but a dose of reality would help.  I sat on the Board of Directors of a group of railroad employees who started the rebuild process on SP 2467 in Oakland.  With transfers, deaths (remember, most steam men are now retirees) funding issues and the inevitable internal politics, the 2467's restoration was threatened but magnificently finished by several new members and new sponsors.  And after all that work and money, 2467 ran briefly and now resides at Sacramento, CA, probably never to run again.

The bottom line:  yes it can be done, but not without considerable effort and funding. 

Serving Los Gatos and The Santa Cruz Mountains with the Legendary Colors of the Espee. "Your train, your train....It's MY train!" Papa Boule to Labische in "The Train"
  • Member since
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  • 47 posts
Posted by jr 611 on Sunday, June 1, 2008 11:49 PM
it could run. i say the best person to restore it is doyle mccormack after the 4449 gets a new home.sinse he can run the 4449 for 30 years
please help the cb&q 5614

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