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Chicago Belt Lines..Do they operate on both there own tracks and can also switch anywhere in the Chi. district on anyline?

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Chicago Belt Lines..Do they operate on both there own tracks and can also switch anywhere in the Chi. district on anyline?
Posted by divebardave on Thursday, December 26, 2019 2:33 PM

I see Indiana Harbor Belt trains everywhere...so can they go anywere to do work? Are Chicago belt railroads the local railroad switching freight taxicab for the region?

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Posted by beaulieu on Thursday, January 2, 2020 2:04 PM

No, they can only provide switching service on their own lines or on ondustry owned tracks that branch off of their tracks. IHB, B&OCT, BRC, and formerly the EJ&E had tracks that penetrated into the inner areas of the city. Sometimes this was to reach the major passenger terminals and other times to connect to the trackage of their owning railroads or connecting Class I railroads. 

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Posted by divebardave on Saturday, January 4, 2020 12:29 AM

I think the term is "reciprocal switching" which would take a whole team of railroad lawyers to explain but in short is-Definition of reciprocal switching. : an interchange of inbound and outbound carload freight among railroads in which the cars are switched by one railroad to or from the siding of another under a regular switching charge that is usually absorbed by the carrier receiving the line-haul.

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Posted by divebardave on Saturday, January 4, 2020 12:30 AM

So in short IHB is owned in part by NS(New York Central had shares before that) and some of the local work is contracted out to them more or less.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, January 6, 2020 7:05 AM

divebardave

So in short IHB is owned in part by NS(New York Central had shares before that) and some of the local work is contracted out to them more or less.

 
IHB ownership prior to the Conrail split was divided between Conrail and Canadian Pacific (through purchase of MILW).  I don't know how the Conrail share was split.
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by divebardave on Tuesday, January 7, 2020 4:56 PM
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Posted by beaulieu on Thursday, January 9, 2020 11:47 PM

divebardave

So in short IHB is owned in part by NS(New York Central had shares before that) and some of the local work is contracted out to them more or less.

 
IHB is owned 49% by CP, 25.5% by CSX, and 25.5% by NS. Agreement states that any sale of an ownership stake must be approved by all three. CP's share was acquired with the Milwaukee Road. The New York Central's 51% share was divided between CSX and NS.
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Posted by ELRobby on Tuesday, August 2, 2022 6:47 PM

Although this topic hasn't been added to for over two years, I just noticed it and the several comments about the ownership of the IHB are incorrect. The correct IHB ownership is not a "short" answer. Before the Conrail merger with the NS/CSX, Conrail did own 51% of the IHB stock. After the merger, Conrail continued to own and still does own 51% of the IHB stock. NS and CSX did not split that 51% stock ownership between themselves. There is no 25.5% split of the Conrail owned IHB stock between NS and CSX. This was done on purpose. If they had split the stock ownership, CSX and NS would have become minority owners. Or if one of them had merged with CP, as Harrison had tried to do a few years ago, the CP would have become the majority owner. Although Harrison at the time had claimed that merger with the NS would have given the CP a majority ownership of the IHB, that was an incorrect statement. Through their ownership of Conrail, NS and CSX have to work together to direct the IHB. 

Additionally, much of what the IHB operates on is 100% owned by other railroads. Per the CSX/NS merger agreement covering the IHB, NS retained 100% of the former Conrail ownership of the main line right-of-way from Indiana Harbor south to south of Osborn. CSX retained 100% of the ownership of the former MC main from Ivanhoe to Calumet Park. The agreement is worded so that everything outside of a 100 ft. +/-- distance considered to be the width of the two separate NS and CSX main line right-of-ways had that ownership staying 100% with Conrail. That Conrail ownership includes what is left of the old Dune Park Branch on the north side of the former MC main going from Gibson to a little east of Ivanhoe. Conrail also has 100% ownership of the former MC from Calumet Park to almost the end of track at Kensington, 100% ownership of Gibson Yard and 100% ownership of the land underneath the IHB's Hammond HQ building and the building itself. NS owns the land where the former Kensington Yard was located. The tracks on these portions are not leased to the IHB but are covered by maintenance and operating (M&O) agreements. They are not leases. Also, from an 1890's agreement, the B&OCT owns the land and track from Blue Island to McCook which IHB maintains and operates. Thus, much of what IHB maintains and operates on is not their property. Except for what be might be left of a couple of IHB branches, the IHB owns little from Calumet Park east. This is hard to discover as you won't see those other railroads' ownerships noted on any IHB route map.

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Posted by anglecock on Wednesday, August 3, 2022 2:13 PM

ELRobby

Although this topic hasn't been added to for over two years, I just noticed it and the several comments about the ownership of the IHB are incorrect. The correct IHB ownership is not a "short" answer. Before the Conrail merger with the NS/CSX, Conrail did own 51% of the IHB stock. After the merger, Conrail continued to own and still does own 51% of the IHB stock. NS and CSX did not split that 51% stock ownership between themselves. There is no 25.5% split of the Conrail owned IHB stock between NS and CSX. This was done on purpose. If they had split the stock ownership, CSX and NS would have become minority owners. Or if one of them had merged with CP, as Harrison had tried to do a few years ago, the CP would have become the majority owner. Although Harrison at the time had claimed that merger with the NS would have given the CP a majority ownership of the IHB, that was an incorrect statement. Through their ownership of Conrail, NS and CSX have to work together to direct the IHB. 

Additionally, much of what the IHB operates on is 100% owned by other railroads. Per the CSX/NS merger agreement covering the IHB, NS retained 100% of the former Conrail ownership of the main line right-of-way from Indiana Harbor south to south of Osborn. CSX retained 100% of the ownership of the former MC main from Ivanhoe to Calumet Park. The agreement is worded so that everything outside of a 100 ft. +/-- distance considered to be the width of the two separate NS and CSX main line right-of-ways had that ownership staying 100% with Conrail. That Conrail ownership includes what is left of the old Dune Park Branch on the north side of the former MC main going from Gibson to a little east of Ivanhoe. Conrail also has 100% ownership of the former MC from Calumet Park to almost the end of track at Kensington, 100% ownership of Gibson Yard and 100% ownership of the land underneath the IHB's Hammond HQ building and the building itself. NS owns the land where the former Kensington Yard was located. The tracks on these portions are not leased to the IHB but are covered by maintenance and operating (M&O) agreements. They are not leases. Also, from an 1890's agreement, the B&OCT owns the land and track from Blue Island to McCook which IHB maintains and operates. Thus, much of what IHB maintains and operates on is not their property. Except for what be might be left of a couple of IHB branches, the IHB owns little from Calumet Park east. This is hard to discover as you won't see those other railroads' ownerships noted on any IHB route map.

 

Enough to make ones head spin, Would have prefered a belt line system like Saint Loius were Terminal Railway Associacion works very well and everyone gets along

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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, August 3, 2022 8:08 PM

anglecock
Would have prefered a belt line system like Saint Loius were Terminal Railway Associacion works very well and everyone gets along

On a Fred Fraley blog I asked if St.Louis could be an alternate E-W transfer point vs. Chicago.  He replied that St.Louis is where trains go to die, and said I should have known better.

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