Should UP bring back a BIG BOY into its steam prog

[wallyworld]

It depends on which side of the question you find yourself positioned in the situation. From the point of self interest, the answer as a railfan is affirmitive. From the point of view of the Union Pacific, the answer is an understandable "No Thank You." How much is enough? The UP is the only American road to commit consistant funding, manpower and operational sacrifices keep a public profile with it's steam program. I think the larger question that lies beneath that of a specific locomotive, is where is the equal commitment from other road's to keep a public profile with a similar program? One of the very valuable intangible benefits to such a program is good will which the railroads will need in abundance in the near foreseeable future.
This was not always so. If we go back to the past and imagine we are at the World's Fair in Chicago in 1933. Here at a prominent location, we walk up to the enormous T1 Duplex proudly emblazoned with the roadname, "American Railroads." In recent news, it has been an issue in the model railroad industry that railroads are now charging for use of their name and logo. Rather than simply stipulate a registration and quality program to assert accurracy in the use of these images, they also charge a fee. Again, thou hast shot thy own foot.
Those of you who are old enough do you recall who paid whom for the use of the Santa Fe logo on the famous Lionel diesel.? These "toys" number probably in the hundred of thousands not so indirectly not only advertising a corpororation but in countless cases developing a lifelong interest beginning in childhood. To charge a fee for this is absurd.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

I hope UP would restore a big boy, but I doubt UP would ever do that, but they could (hey, if they could restore a Challenger, they could restore a big boy).

The Challenger was never "restored" because it, like UP 8444, was never taken out of service. they've been continuously maintained and operated by UP as part of thier roster. Hence as far as i know they never sat exposed to the elements like so many display engines. UP 4014 looked pretty good last time I saw it in Pomona but I didnt look to hard at it.[8D]

Maybe a better choice for restoration project would be the SP cab-farward at the California Railroad Museum? I beleive it is still in very good condition.[?]

Hate to disagree, but 3985 was indeed restored. It was on display when a group of UP employees and others decided to give it a try. For example, the stoker screw came from a junk pile, where the owner at the time was planning on turning it into a post hole digger. Fortunately it was in good enough shape that the restoration was possible, and UP agreed to it. There are not many non-operational steam locos that fit that description any more.

i stand corrected[;)]

but 844 was never retired, am I right there? It was kept by UP in running condition as an excursion special after all other steam engines had been scraped.

[Modelcar]

...Does anyone really think if a Bigboy could somehow be restored there would be a place to actually run it....Doubtful at this time if major railroads would submit to something this heavy and with a possibility of causing problems with track, etc....It would be an enormous expense to embark on such a program and now with budgets so tight...Doubtful if we'll see any reality on this subject anyway soon....Maybe never again. Time has probably passed us by to see such a project come to life.

[favuprailroadfan]

Hey Bigboy, I used to live in Denver and I was at the Forney Museum once a week. The engine there is in excellant shape, they have done alot of work to it. But I don't think they will let it go. But here is somethign for you to ponder, the track is still that leads into the building is the one that the bigboy is sitting on. It is very possible to get it out but it will take some work. So I am hoping that someone would take the time and money to rebuild it.

Laters, Dru

[Anonymous]

With my nickname I must write something about this topic I think.

Yeah, a bigboy under steam would be great! To dream isn´t forbidden. A Bigboy that made a trip across Sherman Hill................ GREAT

AND POSSIBLE IS ANYTHING!

But I´m a realist, No chance! The Big Boys are out of service since near 45 years. Some looks good, some not. So the first part is that the group, I don´t say "the UP", that will make the restoration must find a Big Boy in good condition!

I think that the 4005 in the Forney Museum in Denver is in the best condition for restoration. But will the owner - UP or the Forney Foundation? - give them for restoration!

The restoration need lot of money! I think up to 2 or 3 Million $. Who pay this? The UP? Forgot it!

Special trains with a Big Boy will be expensive trips. The Big Boy´s are hungry, needs a lot of coal. 40 to 50 tons for a trip from Cheyenne to Laramy and back to cheyenne are possible!

Next problem: The mines that "produce" the coal for UP are closed since years. And the firebox was designed for this coaltype, use another coal and become new problems.
So they convert the engine into an oilburner - (Oh no! Please, please not).

I see no weight problems on mainlines because the axle weights are today higher than 40 years ago and the Big Boys were known as good runners and the top speed is also high enough.

DOES EVERYONE SEE A REAL PLACE IN THE EXCURSION MARKET FOR THE TWO BIGGEST STEAMENGINES ON EARTH - THE BIGGEST ARE ALSO THE MOST EXPENSIVE!!!
The 844 is cheap in maintenance against the 3985 or a BIg Boy.

[Rick Gates]

I may be wrong.....but about 10 to 15 years ago...didn't I read something about sending some steamers to China for restoration work where they were still building their own working steamers?

[Anonymous]

OH god I'd love to see one of those tripe head with the 3985 and 844

[Anonymous]

No it would be ridiculous to do so the only positive thing about a bigboy would be the fact that it was easier to fire than a 3900. I am anxsiously awaiitng 844's return to the rails. To me the ultimate would be able to ride in the cab of either the 3985 and or 844
I have last of the giants tapes to watch to see a big boy run just turn up the volume and the subwoofer and i can rattle the pictures off the wall like it was right outside. We should be thankful for the steam that UP does run I am sure when the fuel bill comes in there are some that wonder if its really worth it. OPEC probably sends them christmas cards for devouring so much oil on thier operations.
60 gallons to the mile


Sean

[Anonymous]

maybe Jesse James and the monster garage crew can rebuild a big boy
Any PRR or NYC steam locos in runnin condition these days?[8D]

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

I hope UP would restore a big boy, but I doubt UP would ever do that, but they could (hey, if they could restore a Challenger, they could restore a big boy).

The Challenger was never "restored" because it, like UP 8444, was never taken out of service. they've been continuously maintained and operated by UP as part of thier roster. Hence as far as i know they never sat exposed to the elements like so many display engines. UP 4014 looked pretty good last time I saw it in Pomona but I didnt look to hard at it.[8D]

Maybe a better choice for restoration project would be the SP cab-farward at the California Railroad Museum? I beleive it is still in very good condition.[?]

Hate to disagree, but 3985 was indeed restored. It was on display when a group of UP employees and others decided to give it a try. For example, the stoker screw came from a junk pile, where the owner at the time was planning on turning it into a post hole digger. Fortunately it was in good enough shape that the restoration was possible, and UP agreed to it. There are not many non-operational steam locos that fit that description any more.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

I hope UP would restore a big boy, but I doubt UP would ever do that, but they could (hey, if they could restore a Challenger, they could restore a big boy).

The Challenger was never "restored" because it, like UP 8444, was never taken out of service. they've been continuously maintained and operated by UP as part of thier roster. Hence as far as i know they never sat exposed to the elements like so many display engines. UP 4014 looked pretty good last time I saw it in Pomona but I didnt look to hard at it.[8D]

Maybe a better choice for restoration project would be the SP cab-farward at the California Railroad Museum? I beleive it is still in very good condition.[?]

[spjoe]

Won't happen!

I just returned from Cheyenne, WY. And I paid a visit to the UP steam shop, I was told that the Big Boys won't return to active duty. There is a Big Boy #4004 in a park next to the UP yard. I photograph the #4004 head to toe, it's in VERY bad shape! Rust is eating away the big boy, in some ares you can see into the boiler. This is my second big boy I visited, This is the worst one yet. I hate to see them go away.

[rrnut282]

Wow, such optimism and from the very people who would benefit the most if it were to happen. There isn't a single hurdle to restoring a big locomotive that technology doesn't have an answer for. Money will come to the right organization with the right plan. Just like all the other steam excursions, routes would have to be carefully checked for clearances and curvature and if a suitable wye isn't convienent, run a circle trip.

The only true obstacle is liability. The RR's won't take it upon themselves and groups trying to buy the insurance have found it (if they can find it at all) astronomically expensive, thanks to trial lawyers. The only hope is tort law reform or a new law absolving historical locomotives of most liability except for gross negligence and malice. Then insurance would be affordable again and trains would start running again.

[JoeKoh]

Sorry to be a party pooper but I dont think it will happen.First like others said it would cost alot to restore and second you would need to do a lot of trackwork to make wyes for the big boy to turn around.
stay safe
joe

[Anonymous]

I hope UP would restore a big boy, but I doubt UP would ever do that, but they could (hey, if they could restore a Challenger, they could restore a big boy).

[Mookie]

I agree, this will never happen - too big and too costly. And this from a Big Boy fan that has the Trains double centerfold taped to the door in her bedroom! What a classy picture that is!

[Anonymous]

This is a pipe dream.
This is nice to say they should do this but who is going to put that kind of
money into something that wont even be able to run on anyones track.
There is many locomotive ready to run on the mainline but the railraods
dont like to have steam locomotives run on them.
Now the cost CP put around 3,000,000 into there steam locomotive
and this is a small locomotive.
The 2100 to bring it up to FRA standards cost around 500,000 this
is after 1,000,000 was put into this engine and it sat for about 8 years
because again no one would let them run this engine.
Just to steam up the 2100 you have about a one month prep time
to get it ready to fire.Then it cost about $3,000 to 5,000 for fuel oil
for the amount of time to bring it up to steam.Then you have to account
for all the time you put in and sometimes you put in 16-20 hours
per day getting it ready to go and then once you light the fire your
up for the next 48 hours making sure every thing is going all right
and fixing leaks etc.
Most of you would pack it in after a good days work and you will never
think you could get that dirty.
And also you don't run down to the store for any parts you have to make them.
This is very time consuming.
I could go on and on.

[vsmith]

Yes it would be nice, but then again, where could it be run? Are we all going to drive to Wyoming just to see it? The Challenger has the advantage of being able to range fairly far from home, could the Big Boy do that? I dunno?

What about other steamers that could be revived, there are three big beauties (a SF 4-6-4, a UP 4-12-2, and a SP 4-10-2) at the Pomona fairgrounds other than the Big Boy #4014 there. As an example, a more conventional engine might be rivived easier and utilized for excursions far easier than resurecting such a large and complex machine?

Just wondering?

[tree68]

I was at Steamtown in December. The 4012 looks kinda tired. At least it's on rails that are connected to something.

Of course, I wasn't looking at it from the standpoint of restoring it, either...

And yes, it is a monster. Should have used my timer to get a shot of myself next to it.

If you want to avoid the crowds, a winter weekday is a great time to visit Steamtown - I essentially had the whole site to myself. Just wish I could have done a little climbing on some rolling stock...

[Anonymous]

I'd pay my 2 cents worth see a BIG BOY to come wouldn't it be cool havinging it pull a 40 car Passenger Trains and then race a UP 4000 series SD70M and then have it race an Alleganay that would be COOL

[Willy2]

I sure would like to see a Big Boy back in service. I never have been able to see one in action because steam had already been ended for years by the time I was born. I bet that it is unlikely that they will restore one because it is just too big of a project. If a group was willing to spend uncountable hours restoring it, it would be possible, but that seems unlikely because nobody has tried to do it yet.

[Anonymous]

yes yes yes yes yes bring them both and for an extra thrill a UP DD44X 6948
[8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D]
I cant belive I missed It I was in Dallas the day they brought It back to life but was tied up working on my truck at papa's house all day

[hmh04]

Yes, the cost is well nominal and the thing about the inability to turn a Big Boy is just a bunch of hoopla, The Challenger is not turned on a turntable they are turned on wye's and reversing loops so turning one is no problem, the steam team does not necessarily went anything to do with the restoration but if some one gave it to them would they turn it down, I'm thinking no. And the track problems would not exist, all of the widely used track from Omaha to the west coast have concrete ties, and there are many in restorable condition. oil firing would be possible also now, the technology today for oil firing is much better than it was 50 years ago, the firing capability is much better now than then.

[Anonymous]

The old roundhouse in Cheyenne is used for storing the challenger. The Big Boy that is in Holiday Park in Cheyenne was underwater to the bottom of the boiler duing the flood in 1985. It is close enough to bring to the main line and restore but don't think that it is ever going to happen. I know when the challenger is fired up and u can hear the whistle around most of the city..ppl flock to both ends of town to see her rolling by under a full head of steam pulling the yellow passenger cars.

[Anonymous]

With a few of the right sponsors no doubt it could be done. And when you think about it, is it better to what for 10 years to see the worlds largest steam locomotive run again or never have that opportunity? Has anyone tried to contact the group that was attempting to restore 4018 in Texas? Their web site is www.bigboy4018.com/frames.html

[Anonymous]

I like the idea of putting together a group to do fundraising and that sort of thing to do a Big Boy restoration. This is a far flung country, but I'm betting that with something like this, it just might be possible. It would have to be done in partnership with one of the class 1 railroads so that hopefully, when this dream is realized, there would be a place to run it. Of course, at $20 per month from 10,000 people, it would ONLY take 10 years to raise enough money. Oh well, it is nice to dream now and then.
Todd

[Anonymous]

I stood on a bigboy once at the Denver RR museum.

You are talking one mammoth locomotive. And considering is stage of decay, one mammoth restore project.

It would be nice to see, but i doubt UP would want to fund it, or the insuring of it.

Nice thought though.

[psa188]

UP's not going to reactivate a Big Boy, no matter how many people'd like to see it. Steve Lee seems to get asked about this every time he speaks in public and he has stated repeatedly that it's not going to happen.

[Anonymous]

Just got the 'ALCO Issue' of 'Trains'. Looks very interesting; the fold-out is good (a pity it is not in colour!). BUT, you can get a good impression of the size and power of the Big Boy.