Illinois Central Passenger Trains

[jeaton]

Info from 1954 Official Guide.

CITY of NO - All coach train - Lv Chi 7:50am - Ar NO 12:15am (15min past midnight) - 921 miles - Ave speed 56mph - 22 intermediate stops - Car switching at both Carbondale & Memphis

   Consist - Coaches Chi-NO, Coaches St.L-NO (in No.'s 201 & 202 Carbondale St.L), Diner          Chi-NO (sometimes two depending on passenger load), Tavern/Lounge/Obs Chi-NO

 

PANAMA LIMITED - All Pullman train - Lv Chi 5:00pm - Ar NO 9:30am - Ave speed 56mph -   17 intermediate stops - Car switching at Carbondale, Memphis & Jackson

   Consist - Slpr Chi-NO (6 Sec, 6 Rmt, 4 DBr), Slpr Chi-NO (10 Rmt, 5 DBr), Slpr Chi-NO (11 Dbr), Slpr Chi-NO (DR, 4 Comp, 4 DBr), Slpr Chi-NO (10 Rmt, 6DBr), Slpr/Obs Chi-NO (DBr, DR, Comp), Slpr* St.L-NO (10 Rmt, 6 DBr), Slpr* St.L-NO (6 Sec, 6 Rmt, 4 DBr), Slpr Chi-Jackson, MS (10 Rmt, 6DBr), Slpr Mem-NO (6 Sec, 6 Rmt, 4 DBr), Parlor Car Chi-Carbondale, Parlor Car Mem-NO, Twin Unit Diner Chi-NO, Buffet/Lounge* StL-NO

*Carried in No's 205 & 16 Carbondale-St.L

Other Lightweight IC Streamliners at the time were: The City of Miami - Chi & St.L - Florida (every 3rd Day) The Daylight & The Green Diamond Chi-StL, The Land o'Corn Chi-Waterloo, IA

Heavyweight Named Trains Were: The Louisiane Chi-NO, The Southern Express Chi-NO, The Creole NO-Chi, The Chickasaw StL-Mem, The Seminole Chi-Jacksonville, The Night Diamond, Chi-StL, The Hawkeye, Chi-Sioux City, The Irwin S. Cobb, Louisville-Fulton, The Delta Express Mem-Greenville, The Southwestern/Northeastern Limited Shreveport-Meridian

Additionally 5 Big Four (NYC) Chi-Cincy passenger trains including the streamlined James Whitcomb Riley were operated by the IC between Chi-Kankakee (54 miles)

Mark

I think these trains all kept running into the early 60's, but the IC's "train off" effort got going about that time.  I was working for the IC on Amtrak startup day, and I think by that time all that was left was the Panama, City of New Orleans, a day train to St Louis and maybe the every third day City of Miami.  I don't have a 1970-71 Railway Guide, so that is from a fading memory.

Interesting to me about the running times for the Panama and CNO.  The average of 56mph might less than most would have thought.  Once past the 65mph limit on the 30 mile Chicago Terminal, limits were 79mph to Champaign, then 99mph to DuQuoin.  Due to curves and grades between Carbondale and Cairo, some limits were lower, but I think the 79 mph limit prevailed south of the Ohio River.

So the total time for the Panama-Chicago to NOLA was 16.5 hours.  Take out the hour slop in the schedule and the current running time for Amtrak's City of New Orleans is 18.5 hours.  Not great, but not bad given the single tracking  of the Illinois mileage and the drop in the speed limit south of Champaign.

Like most of the other LD trains, don't think there are many that are going to skip driving or flying to ride the City.

[MP173]

Jay:

I posted the passenger trains scheduled from the March, 1971 OG.

Surprizingly, there were quite a few trains, quite a few being Chicago - Carbondale.

ed

[jeaton]

ed

Sorry, I wasn't tracking too well on this, but appreciate your post on the 1971 trains.

I worked on the IC's suburban line until sometime in 1962.  Up to that time and for a few more years, Wayne Johnston, the long time president of the IC, was still firmly in control of the railroad.  In the late 40's and early 50's, Johnston had the view that a well run railroad passenger service could compete with auto and air for passengers of all types-business, vacation, etc.  Of course, the the introduction of jets and the building of the Interstate Highway system in the 1960's put an end to that.

As an aside for those here a little younger, from the time of the opening of the Interstates in the 1960's to the Arab oil boycott in October of 1973, posted speeds on the highways were typically 75mph and even "reasonable and proper" in many of the wide open western states.  (That's how fast can this sucker go.)  If you weren't worried about dropping $25-50 for the occasional speeding ticket, you could put the pedal to the metal and leave it there for the whole trip.  As for flying, if you were in airport parking 20 minutes before flight time, you could probably make the flight without busting a hump.  Coach seats had space for the tall and the heavy, and if the flight was over a meal period, there would be a small, but reasonably tasty meal.  Is there any wonder that people left the trains?

I don't know where Johnston was at on the issue of passenger trains in the period from 1963 on to his retirement.  Bill Johnson took over the presidency of the IC and IC Industries in 1966, and I believe it was Johnson that hired Paul Reistrup to head up the passenger operations.  Reistrup had taken the B&O through train-offs, and it is generally accepted that his job on the IC was to get the poorest performers taken out.  By the time I went to work in the Marketing Department, Reistrup had been moved over to head up the development of the Intermodal Department.

In addition to the north/south trains noted in ed's post, I think the IC was still running at least one St Louis and one Iowa Train at that time.

 

[MP173]

Jay:

What did you think of Reistrup?

I just checked the March, 1971 OG and you are correct...well, nearly correct.

IC ran trains 21 and 22 "Governor's Special"  between Chicago and Springfield.  Leaving Chicago at 815am and arriving in Springfield at 1145am the train would return leaving at 515pm and arriving in Chicago at 845pm.  The consist was "coaches" and "food bar coach".

IC ran 11 and 12 "Hawkeye" between Chciago and Sioux City, leaving Chicago at 7pm and arriving in Sious City at 830am.   It left Sioux City at 610pm with arrival at 715am in Chicago.  The trains passed each other between Independence and Manchester.  There were "coaches" only.  It would have been advisable to eat before leaving and taking a snack

In addition Penn Central trains 303 and 304 used the IC between Chicago and Kankakee.  303 was scheduled to leave Kankakee at 1228pm and arrive at 145 in Chicago.  It would leave Chicago at 350pm and Kankakee at 452pm.

So...the spot to watch the fleet of passenger trains has now been moved from Champaign, Il up a few miles to north of Kankakee.  Make that 16 passenger trains a day one could watch plus the freights.  I would have gone to either Manteno or Peotone where there was a Milwaukee branch that ran from Joliet to Momence.  That is where I would have been in 1971, say on a sunny spring day in April.

ed

[KCSfan]

ed

Sorry, I wasn't tracking too well on this, but appreciate your post on the 1971 trains.

I worked on the IC's suburban line until sometime in 1962.  Up to that time and for a few more years, Wayne Johnston, the long time president of the IC, was still firmly in control of the railroad.  In the late 40's and early 50's, Johnston had the view that a well run railroad passenger service could compete with auto and air for passengers of all types-business, vacation, etc.  Of course, the the introduction of jets and the building of the Interstate Highway system in the 1960's put an end to that.

As an aside for those here a little younger, from the time of the opening of the Interstates in the 1960's to the Arab oil boycott in October of 1973, posted speeds on the highways were typically 75mph and even "reasonable and proper" in many of the wide open western states.  (That's how fast can this sucker go.)  If you weren't worried about dropping $25-50 for the occasional speeding ticket, you could put the pedal to the metal and leave it there for the whole trip.  As for flying, if you were in airport parking 20 minutes before flight time, you could probably make the flight without busting a hump.  Coach seats had space for the tall and the heavy, and if the flight was over a meal period, there would be a small, but reasonably tasty meal.  Is there any wonder that people left the trains?

I don't know where Johnston was at on the issue of passenger trains in the period from 1963 on to his retirement.  Bill Johnson took over the presidency of the IC and IC Industries in 1966, and I believe it was Johnson that hired Paul Reistrup to head up the passenger operations.  Reistrup had taken the B&O through train-offs, and it is generally accepted that his job on the IC was to get the poorest performers taken out.  By the time I went to work in the Marketing Department, Reistrup had been moved over to head up the development of the Intermodal Department.

In addition to the north/south trains noted in ed's post, I think the IC was still running at least one St Louis and one Iowa Train at that time.

 

Wayne Johnston was a dyed in the wool railroad man who believed in passenger service and saw to it IC trains lived up to his expectations until the very last day of his presidency. I recall hearing that he got a report on his desk every morning listing any passenger train that arrived late the prior day as well as the hot shot freights such as MS-1. The Hawkeye or Seminole could probably be 15 minutes late without repercussion but the Superintendant of the Division that caused a delay of the City of NO, The Panama Limited or the City of Miami could expect a personal phone call and better have an acceptable explanation (such as grade crossing accident, unavoidable mechanical breakdown, etc,) ready for the big guy.

I have posted this previously but will repeat it here to punctuate my respect for Wayne Johnston. As a boy of 12 or 13 I wrote a letter addressed only to the Illinois Central Railroad, Central Station, Chicago, Ill. requesting a copy of an Illinois Division Employee Timetable.  Less than a week later I got a personal letter from Mr. Johnston stating that EET's were available only to railroad employees but if I'd arrange to meet him at his home he'd be glad to show one to me and explain the information it contained. He lived in Flossmoor and had noted that my address was in the adjancent town, Homewood. Well I called Mr. Johnston, arranged a time to meet with him and bicycled to his home at the appointed hour on a Saturday afternoon. He was a gracious host and we talked railroading for 2-1/2 hours. A the end of our visit he told me to drop him a line when I finished high school or college if I wanted a job with the IC. Almost unbelievable but true that the President of a major railroad would give that much of his leisure time to a pre-teenage kid who was interested in trains. Sadly, I don't think they make corporation presidents like him any more. 

Mark

[Anonymous]

Hi gang,
I'll need some very specific help. I am modeling IC's City of New Orleans, with some secondary focus on the City of Miami. We're cutting off the lauout at 1957 do I can run steam and deisel.
The CoNO in its later days included a vista dome coach. I have a smooth-sided one, probably IHC-Rivarossi, labeled "Magnolia State." I can find no evidence that this type of car ever wore IC colors.
Through pictures and a comprehensive reference book I learned the following:
1) You can't trust road names on models. This name was used on a compartment and roomette sleeper in 1942.
2) IC aquired four dome cars in 1967. The were unnamed corrugated-side Budds, determined from information in the book cross-referenced with a color photo.
Can anyone substantiate IC using the smooth-sided lightweight domes, and if so, with what road name and in what consist?

Chuck

[KCSfan]

Chuck,

Yes the IC did at one time run a smooth sided, lightweight dome car in the City of Miami consist. I believe this started in the late 1950's and was (at least initially) operated only during the mid-fall to mid-spring time frame. The cars were leased from the Northern Pacific where they operated on the North Coast Limited during the summer months when the NCL ridership was at its peak. There would have been three of these cars, one for each of the CM's three trainsets. The IC would paint these cars in their chocolate brown, orange and yellow colors to match the rest of the CM's cars. At the beginning of the summer or late spring the cars would be repainted back to their original colors and returned to the NP for service in the NCL. Perhaps someone else will provide the years when this practice began and ended.

I was not aware that dome cars were run in the consists of either the City of New Orleans or the Panama Limited. I'm not saying they didn't at some time, just that I am not knowledgable as to their operation. My guess would be that if the IC did acquire four corrugated Budd domes in 1967 they were used year round on the CM and not the CNO. Well before 1967 the CM became an every second day train (it was formerly every third day) and four domes would have been required for that schedule.  

Mark  

[jimrice4449]

One of my most memorable RR trips was on the IC Green Diamond from Woodlawn (63rd St) to St Louis.   The original GD was a four car articulated trainset that wasn't able to meet traffic demands during WWII and was sent south as the Mis-Lou.   Unable to get new lightwieght equipment due to WWII the IC cobbled together a mixture of lt wt and rebuilt hvywt cars.   Since it was a temporary expedient until post WWII equipment became available they did minimum work on the parlor/observation and only added welded sides w/ streamlined type windows and left the original open observation platform in place.   I was about 12 or 13 at the time and guess where I spent the trip!

[RRCharlie]

Train show in Jacksonville, Florida yesterday (2/24/07). Picked up a copy of "Illinois Central Pullmans and Parlor Cars" published by the Terminal Railroad Association of St. Louis Historical and Technical Society, Inc. - Summer 2006 - Issue 66. Has a bunch of information and pictures that wolud answer some of your questions.

Mel Hazen

Jacksonville, Florida