Bird's eye view of Rockville Bridge near Harrisburg Pa....

[Modelcar]

I still marvel at the route surveyed for the South Penn across Somerset County passing through at a rather high {for the area}, elevation. Elevation there at the top of Gieger hill {crossing Rt. 281}, where one can see the Court House dome in Somerset is about 2100 to 2200 ft. And most of the way across the plateau from Allegheny to Laurel Hill....I'm simply comparing it to the old Pennsylvania route following waterways much of the way between the mountains, etc....It seems to me it would have been a very costly route to finish and maybe even to maintain....Deep cuts to keep the rolling rocks out and off the tracks and possible trouble with washing out some of the fill work, etc....And much of it rather difficult to get to.

[Modelcar]

...But one more thing I overlook in doing that comparison....The old Pennsylvania RR route through Johnstown and points west had the luxury of passing through that massive water gap west of Johnstown, hence not needing to climb and decend Laurel Hill to make it's way west to Pittsburgh.

[Modelcar]

Thanks Russ, for the additional "light" on the above house and barn and survey locations....It did get me turned around a bit....No problem.

[southpennrailroad]

I am sending you via e-mail the coffe pot and Gulf station taken this past march.

[Modelcar]

10-4, we'll look forward to it....

[southpennrailroad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

10-4, we'll look forward to it....

Check Your Mail!

[southpennrailroad]

I thought everyone would like this view. Took it in my past life. Knew it would come in handy

[southpennrailroad]

From the South Penn records, is this hand drawn diagram of a typical wooden bridge road crossing to be built over their tracks. This site would have been built in Fulton County over Sheepskin Hollow near Fort Littleton, Pa. Now if you really wanted too, you can now build this bridge to scale.

[southpennrailroad]

Another set of maps (SPRR placed atop the early type of topographic maps) showing the presence of the SouthPenn in an unlikely area in Confluence, Pa.

[southpennrailroad]

Discovering the South Penn's right of way in areas where no work will be done was not that difficult. The surveys were done, it was just a matter of using the right tools to figure out where the route was to be built 120 years later. Here is a SPRR map embeded onto an aerial photo showing property lines that have not changed since well before the railroads anticipated coming. I'll bet the railroad wished they had these tools.

[Modelcar]

...Russ, you mention tools that would have been so helpful to the designers in your above thoughts....What I so much ponder is their means of transportation up and over these many mountain ridges and to somehow carry all the mtl. and supplies with them needed to do the job, plus to their human needs, etc...Yes, I realize there was a bit of transportation developed elseware but for sure not in these locations. It just amazes me how they found the feasable routes and got it all marked and down on paper...Even finding the property owners, etc....All in a world with practically no communication {where they were}, and so on....So my hats off to the professionals who really did get the route surveyed and available to the constructors to complete. Sadly...that would never happen with the exception of the compromise Turnpike built much later....which really became a very important piece of highway that set trends for others to follow. So in a sense the S P engineers really did have success but of course they never knew it.

[southpennrailroad]

In my search for the South Penn I have to travel sections of old roads, though now paved, that were used to get into and out of the areas the railroad worked on. I don't even like the idea of what the turnpike surveyors had to use as roads just to survey what was supose to be theirs. I mean before the turnpike was built the surveyors were pretty much like having to do the same surveys as the railroad had to cut through. What I have done as a single researcher for the past ten years is simple and nothing compared to what they had to work through as well as travel through. Looking for the best possible route to build a railroad through is something I would not like to have undertook. I have the turnpike to get into and out of as I went exploring the right of way. They had to cut through woods and climb hills to even seewhatI see to this day as I travel the same roads they did. Even toady I can see the strain on my 4 cyl. chevy as I climb the same roads as they did. We just don't know what the real value the turnpike has given us. .

[Modelcar]

...In the 1890's...we had no production motorized vehicles hence any roads in existence would have been mere horse and buggy paths. Very crude. I can picture a survey team pushing up a long wooded valley and find a dead end....and of course that ment plan "B"....
As for the turnpike I remember my first exposure to it as a finished product....it was something out of the future...so different. Separated traffic, no stop lights, modern different type of lighting at interchanges and tunnel entrances, low gradients and something that really stuck out as different....The reflectors along the sides of the road surface. a feature that survives on it yet today and of course many other places now.

[southpennrailroad]

My closest feeling of how most people were about the turnpike being built and opened, was when I remember the I-79 corrider was being built. I recall having to travel route 19 and seeing the new road being built and couldn't wait for it to be completed. My father wa a truck driver and I recall in 1964 when we lived i Bloomfield and he couldn't wait for the East Street Valley to be built. He died the same year it opened and never was aware of his surroundings and never got to be on it. I feel that is what might happen on the Squirel Hil ypass that the turnpike is building from the south northward along route 51 cotrrider.

[Modelcar]

Too bad your father never got to experience that new corridor...Have been on that some years ago.
Squirel Hill.....That rings a bell....Had relatives {school teachers}, that lived up there years ago before they passed away....and I'm saying years ago...in the 50's.
My Saturday night Nascar race is about to start....Back later.

[caldreamer]

Another good spot to take pictures of the Rockville bridge is on route 15 north after you cross I81 past Enola going towards Marysville. Just before you get to the bridge there is a spot on the right where you can pull over. Trees in area, but you can get good shots of the bridge.

[southpennrailroad]

This rare culvert is actually a pile of huge boulders placed in this shallow valley allowing the South Penn to crosss without having to worry about a washout. The water would just passively pass through the boulders. I will soon be replacing this and other photos I took of this site next fall. Location: East side of Tuscarora Mtn. Tunnel to the north of the turnpike.

[southpennrailroad]

comparison chart of the South Penn and the Pennsylvania Railroads. Thought you would enjoy this.

[southpennrailroad]

The South Pennsylvania Railroad in the Connellsville area.

[southpennrailroad]

Hey I see they are selling seven gallons of gas for $1.22. What a bargain! I'll bet people complained then too. I paid today for the same seven gallons which only went to fill my tank at a little less, then a half tank, $21.00.

[Modelcar]

...That Connelsville area....I don't know how they ever got any railroad through there. Several years ago we stopped there on the way in from Indiana just to see the ex. depot down town that had the elevated railroad next to it...Entering the depot at about the 2nd or third floor level. The elevated track was long gone. The building is now a special glass business. The building is preserved in great shape.
Interesting comparaison the profiles of Pennsy and S P....Pennsy had a much easier way to go across there...Though both did have to climb some mountains. The Pennsy excaped some of them by going around some and then the opening west of Johnstown really helped. Interesting stuff. S P would have been a shoter route to Pittsburgh.

[southpennrailroad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...That Connelsville area....I don't know how they ever got any railroad through there. Several years ago we stopped there on the way in from Indiana just to see the ex. depot down town that had the elevated railroad next to it...Entering the depot at about the 2nd or third floor level. The elevated track was long gone. The building is now a special glass business. The building is preserved in great shape.
Interesting comparaison the profiles of Pennsy and S P....Pennsy had a much easier way to go across there...Though both did have to climb some mountains. The Pennsy excaped some of them by going around some and then the opening west of Johnstown really helped. Interesting stuff. S P would have been a shoter route to Pittsburgh.

Look close at the map if possible and you should see a line drawn on the area from the north. That is the alignment that was going to be choosen from the Donegal area along Jacobs Creek via Laurelville ( follow route 982 south from route 31) to a tunnel to be built just to the west of the Kentucky Fried Chicken store located on route 119. Immediatly after coming out of the tunnel a bridge would land them on the north of Connelsville or New Haven area to reach Leisenring and head to Wheeling from that point.

[southpennrailroad]

The South Penn grade inside the tree line taken from the east bound lanes last winter. MP 102.0 I had to walk a mile back to get this shot as the parking here is bad. Look real close and you should make out the large box culvert. Thsi culvert actually was built in 1885 as a etched date is found in a stone making up the culvert.

[Modelcar]

....Don't seem to have a mile marker chart at the moment so i'm estimating your latest photo is near Laurel Hill......Looks like they had the ROW leveled off nice at this location. What a shame we don't have a finished RR as planned across the state or at least approx. as planned....It sure would be interesting to see trains traversing across that high terrain. The NS...{ex. Pennsylvania}, east - west route is a "normal" type RR route so it looks kinda natural but the South Penn would have been a bit special....!

[Modelcar]

....I digress a bit....In thinking about the Rockville Bridge.....{the NS route}, I wonder how many man hours were added up to fini***hat stone arch structure across that wide expanse....? Believe I counted around 51 stone arches. They must have rounded up half the stone masons in the country to get that accomplished. And the supply personal that would have been required to keep supplies at hand...?? Not too many trucks available when that was built.

[southpennrailroad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....I digress a bit....In thinking about the Rockville Bridge.....{the NS route}, I wonder how many man hours were added up to fini***hat stone arch structure across that wide expanse....? Believe I counted around 51 stone arches. They must have rounded up half the stone masons in the country to get that accomplished. And the supply personal that would have been required to keep supplies at hand...?? Not too many trucks available when that was built.

I have a letter that of course is written to the South Penn explaining that the stone needed to build the South Penn piers was some what held up as stone was being cut for both the Pennsy as well as the Cumberland Valley bridges. I suspect but not checked yet when either bridges were built or were they close to the period of 1884.

[Modelcar]

...I don't know about the Rockville Bridge date but do know the route up around Horseshoe Curve was opened about 1854 but perhaps another bridge was in place before the stone arch structure to carry traffic across the Susquehanna.

[Modelcar]

....Google says it was built between 1900-02.....{The Rockville Bridge}.

[Modelcar]

....Also Google tells me over 300 stonemasons worked on the bridge. Two other bridges were in place first. A wooden one and then an iron structure.

[caldreamer]

The rockville bridge opened in 1905. It has stood 102 years of all kinds of weather (including the heavy ice and flooding of 1996) and is still going strong. Pennsy really knew how to build bridges!!!.