Yeah I just was talking to a person I had shown my presentation to said she has photos of that cut being worked on by a back hoe. I photographed the photo but didn;t upload to my computer yet. Will do so soon. It use to be a bridge now filled across with fill (I;m told) from SPRR fill nearby. That section is on this map but not he Boswell section.
Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.
....Not too far from your location of presentation to the Somerset Historical folks Russ, {headed north, towards Jennerstown}, on 985...I'd bet you know the S P crossed that highway and passed back south west from the Historical location and headed towards it's Laural mt. climb, and Quemahoning Tunnel....
Someplace back in there it had to pass over or under the Boswell Branch of the ex B&O...{now abandoned}. I've looked at that area on satellite but really never drove back in there { from 985}, on the available county road that gets near it.
Quentin
Yes I have been to that site, but know nothing of how thw tracks were laid. It is an interesting site and lines itself up with the line coming into from the south east along the yough river.
....Have you ever visited the passenger station I mentioned in earlier post downtown Connelsville Russ....? It was a wierd location. Track elevation was up high and several flights of stairs had to be climbed to reach the boarding location. Of course track is long gone and structure that it was on but abutments are still there, at least in part.
A South Pennsylvania Railroad map showing the New Haven & Connellsville/B&O/CSX existing route as well as the surveyed route of the South Penn entering Connellsville. Look close at the upper left coming across the Moreland estate showing the Mounts Creek survey alignment which today is near Laurelville just near the turnpike west of the Chestnut Ridge. Basically following route 982. into north Connellsville.
Western Maryland never came into Pennsylvania until 1906. I have maps (added) showing 1884 that show a proposed line on the almost exact alignment as Western Maryland now the well known DC to Pittsburgh Bike trail as being the southern route out of the Allegheny Tunnel east portal as being South Penn. Thus the southern side of the Yough is or was reserved for the South Penn.
Shunk said (have to find it but documented proff) a savings of 40 miles between the Pennsy and the SP.
TheB&O now CSX is on the north side while Western Maryland took the south up until 1980's? However this next map is a South Penn Map of Confluence dated 1883.
Notice the Horse Shoe curve at Harndsville. That never existed during the Western Maryland alignment.
....When one mentions Connelsville, you are talking about rough territority. Waterway following would be the only affordable way thru that area. Several years ago when the wife and I came through that town on the way back "home"....to see that former passenger station in town that now sells colored glass, etc....I was really amazed how steep the hill was to get out of there towards the north east....
Vanderbuilt's line seems like it would have been some miles shorter from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh, than competing Pennsylvania RR line up around Horseshoe, etc....That line has a horizonal saw tooth pattern to get around some of the mountains, it had to be somewhat longer than the ill fated SouthPenn....And still it seemed the S P was able to keep grades reasonable....Max at about 2%. To me it seemed unusual where they {engineers}, were able to locate it.....Up higher in their profile crossing the mountains and plateaus.....
South Penn proposed alignment to Wheeling and flirting around Frick Coke sites between Connelsville, Uniontown and Tippiecanoe. Notice small tag @ bottom right. Nothing but documents to back up my findings. Anyone can do it but only I have done this research. The top left corner to the town seen at the at 6:00 position is the route 51 route to Uniontown. Connellsville is upper right missing.
Out of order but you will get the picture
Having the maps and seeing exactly where they were to go I see no problem as to where they were to lay track and work. In that area they were next to but not on the turnpike alignment. Yes if the South Penn was built, it would make for some great rail fanning. Much better then the Pennsy alignment. That alignment was B&O just to the east of Mt. Pleasant. It's still there. Still used.
....Anymore Pennsylvanian's out there {that might be familiar},to join in on some history of this {almost}, RR thru Penna.....Jump in.
Boy, Russ....that area around Mt. Pleasant is some pretty hilly country....Not extreme mountains, but certainly up and down territory but there is a RR that passes right across rt. 31 as one passes thru there. I realize the route of the S P would have been a bit north of there.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/RockwoodLetter.jpg
Here is a letter located in the flats or hilly section just west of the Chestnut Ridge north east of Mt. Pleasant, and north west of Laurelville, Pa. Frick country. It's talking or discusing the coal in that area. I know the exact farm they are mentiong at the turnpike crossing at highway 981.
FireFox doesn't recognize copy and paste acording to their pop up window when I try to paste from photobucket.
Of course I believe the Turnpike would {in later years use the same openings of Tuscarora.
Yes the turnpike did use the railroad tunnel and that one shown is the east bound tunnel which was the railroad. The westbound tunnel was built after wwll.
...Had to resort to the "map" as it appeared over on the screen where I'm typing now to create the post....Couldn't enlarge it over on the original post. But no matter, I then enlarged it some more over here and looked at the details of the route {tunnel}, through the mountain and swinging south as it exits the western opening.
How does one reach the overlook of Norfolk Southern's Rockville bridge? I have a Harrisburg street atlas which was published by ADC maps and it shows a Roberts Valley Road going up the hill from Front Street in Rockville (PA). Is that the road to take?
Are there any landmarks to show where the trail down to the overlook begins?
Are the trail and the overlook on public or private property?
It's great having all these visual aids to show the connection. I have a map which shows the Shade Gap pulling just along the north of the South Penn just outside the west portal of the Tuscarora Tunnel. I'll see if I can locate it.
The black line is the Shade Gap coming from the top right and the red line is the South Penn curving out from the Tuscarora tunnel alignment at the bottom right. Notice the stoped black line alongside the red South Penn grade. No the turnpike is NOT on this alignment. That alignment juts out beyond the railroad alignment.
...No problem, was able to click on your map and then enlarge {that}, to 150% and then I was able to check things out.
I wonder what SouthPenn and EBT's plan might have been at interchange since one was {to be}, standard gauge and one 3' gauge.....?
By up sizing your map I could bring up our home town...{Stoyestown}, even with the old spelling, which was {is}, along the S&C ex B&O that runs from Rockwood to Johnstown.
Totally correct. I will be their for the 6th year this year at Mountain Craft days in Sept. I've been their since 2001. One year I almost forgot to send in my registration and when I appeared about a month before the manager asked if I wasn't coming and was concerned as He has witnessed me when I am their and watched me talking to people and was concerned I wasn't coming.
Well a great many people live near this line in that county and are hungry for what was going on about that line. I seem to have the answers and they like that.
This shot shows theEBT Shade Gap line marked connecting to the South Penn. Need larger map let me know. I will send it via e-mail.
....That's interesting Russ.....I would think it would be just us rail fans, etc....that would have the interest in such history, but glad to hear it is much more. Sounds great.
Believe I remember that Historical area is {going north}, on rt. 985 and would be off to the left up on a rise...Just a few miles out of downtown Somerset. Near the Grapevine Restaurant...{Used to be Ratsy's}....with excellent spaghetti.
I spoke last Thursday @ 7:00 and as always I was suppose to speak for only 25-30 min. but the interest is always high that I stop at 25 and give the audiance a cahance if they want me to stop or continue on. Well I spoke for 1.5 hours. Other times as long as 2 hours.
I was invited last January after doing a presentation in Bedford. I was refered to Somerset as well as Everett and they both went all past 1.5 hours. The Somerset Historical Soviety north of town is where I spoke last Thursday. I think they want me back after I complete a Somerset powerpoint program. Thats going to be quit long..
...Good morning Russ. It's amazing all the different "items" you have pulled up out of the past. The "logo", etc....
By the way, where do you conduct your presentation in Somerset to the Historical Soc....?
As you probably noted in an earlier post, we plan to be in Somerset starting Aug. 2nd. Another visit.
....Russ: Have you had a chance to modify your "new" trailer you pictured in an earlier post. Have you put it on the "job" yet along with images on it's sides as you mentioned earlier of doing.....
....Close....We plan to be at the Hampton Inn beginning about Aug. 2nd....{In Somerset}.
Yeah I was a bit of a shock and its been five months and I am trying to date but some think I should sulk. This new companion is highly interested in my research and wants to go with me just like my wife use to but is more interested. We went out yesterday and she enjoyed the trip even though the green was real green.
I am having a showing @ the Somerset Hist Society this thursday. I gave my laptop a shower last week and it didn't like it. Now I have a new one.
I asked my son to save my old laptop hard drive with all photos and he can transfer them he said.
....Russ.....I'm surprised when I pulled up this site....and very pleased you decided to post again.
I just sent you a personal note via email.
I'm sure there are plenty of folks waiting to continue the subject and see your fine info.
Welcome back, sorry for your loss.
Of course we are still interested! At least I am. =)
It's been over a year since this posting and its been a hard time. My wife since this time has had two attacks and a third which finally took her life in Febuary 15th. She was 48.1.15 days old. Since that time I have been gathering new information but have not the want nor time to process it. A lot of it is indeed good and when I get about doing so will try to continue this highly interesting information on the South Penn if anyone else is still interested.
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