...Appreciate that Russ.
Quentin
....Yes, I wish Dave would come on {he did give the ok many moons ago to continue with this subject on his thread}, and maybe he would change the "Subject" heading for us.
Hope others of the area are seeing it and wish some would join in.
Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.
....She is worn out....We were released by the Cardiologist at 10 this morning but had to wait for the reg. Dr. on that floor to release her and that didn't happen to 6 this evening.....Waiting, waiting....!
Tests were pretty much negative. She had open heart surgery 15 years ago, but these recent tests don't blame the heart. She must be careful what she eats, and does, etc....exercise and now, that mostly is on her bike....Me too.
Perhaps she will feel better in the morning....We're both shot down.
Thanks for asking.
....I don't blame you since you have dug up the data.
Any old RR grade is of interest to me...especially if it is still evident enough to really see the engineering, etc. that went into it.
I realize the SPRR in that respect is more of a challange since it was worked piece meal {and never finished}, during construction, just like most large transportation corridors are done. Contract here, contract there and so on, until they connect. Wish RR building was still common, I'd sure love to see them develop the routes.
The first major expansion was to be just on the east end of the Tuscarora Tunnel to Hagerstown to Baltimore. So this section to Connellsville was not that important. However it would have been built. Re the report on my web page. 13 years of research is a lot to re write on this forum. Yet its documented for others to research my findings.
Correct then a lot of the SPRR was not completed making it a very challanging route to locate which you've seen I have done with back up written documented proof. I love this history. A real slooth. I recall when I just began this research and said I would not get cocky but now I have learned so much I could brag and be proud to presnt its findings to others.
But will forever say I am always learning. Sometimes in spurts others in overwelming amounts of information.
....Believe you are saying to look for comparison around Ohio Pyle....and that it was layed out {SPRR}, to head down that way from the more northern route...{Turnpike site}, but if that is what you are alluding to, none of that was ever actually constructed, from my snooping and reading.....But I'm not the expert on such.
I added a comparing map for the Ohio Pyle secion. HOW IS YOUR WIFE?????? FINE I PRAY!!!!
....In what area....? In the Meyersdale area the WM is {was}, far south of the ROW for the SP.
Rccognize this site? Ohio Pyle and known by the South aPenn as the youghiogheny Division. Ohio Pyle, Fayette County, Pennsylvania. Well! look at the railroad grade (Western Maryland) along the south side of the river. Then using the next map that is positivly dated 1883 of te same area. Remember Western Maryland was not in Pennsylvania until 1906.
In this next map Look to the left side and you wil see Ohio Pyle to compare it to the 1939-39 photo of the same area. SPRR is the maker of this map. Look at the tag at the bottom right corner with the SPRR initials.
....Your photo of the SPRR grade climbing the Alleghenies shows {to me}, they seemed to find a first class route climbing up that bunch of ridges and mountainous terrian.
Used to run rt. 31 {that you show on the photo}....Ran tests with test trucks up and down that 31 mountain grade and on down the long flat valley and thru Manns Choice and on out to rt. 30, then head west and once again climb the same mountain on rt. 30 and on in to Jennerstown to our test facility.
....I've been to Ohio Pyle, many years ago. Many.
Yes, it's easy to see the two grades on your photo. WM and B&O.
I've read several times in the past, that the WM had the better route across the miles of Pennsylvania, even though they basically followed the river, and on down over the Alleghenies. But seems the B&O decided to keep their own when the WM was abandoned.
...Russ: Have a delay in my attention here....Wife had to go to ER this morning and was admitted for tests.
I'll get back later.
....Now that will be interesting.......Haven't enlarged each photo yet. I will get into it, and see just what I can "see".
Everett 1939
The turnpike isn't even under construction in this shot. But an area just to the south bank of the river where you see the bridge down river or on the right is an open area where the freight yards were to be located for the railroad. Also notice the two railroad bridges to the west of the town now gone belonging to the B&B grade.
Below is a view of a 1939 turnpike construction showing the Negro Mtn. Tunnel just alongside the new turnpike alignment at mile post 115.9-116.2. This shot also reveals more work existed in the farm just to the east of the tunnel that I didn't know existed and destroyed by the farmer.
Can you guess where this site is showing the actual SPRR across the center of the screen shot? A Pennsylvania Turnpike interchange was not yet built here but should be just to the to right corner of this shot near the AQN.
This shot is actually still there along the Allegheny Mtn. Look along the bottom to see route 31 east of the Allegheny Mtn.
Vanderbilt in a sense by the use of the turnpike could be the revenge he was looking for. He just died and didn't see his dream fulfilled. I understand he eventually reconciled with Roberts but still forget all that He won.
....I have read the designers / engineers proclaimed the route of the SPRR would have been one of the best possible {within reason}, across Pennsylvania.
I wonder if it really would have been competitive in speed and ease of running across it, and if it would ever have reached double track capacity. Something that would have been necessary to be on par with the Pennsy. The grades {as I understand it}, would have been competitive with the Pennsy.
Guess we'll never know....But as I've also read, the route...{Penn Turnpike}, probably did help to put the Pennsy in financial trouble.
....It's easy to see, engineers / surveyors had no choice at Tuscarora. One way to get across it....Thru it...! And a long way it was too.
Shade Gap Railroad to connection with SPRR @ west Portal Tuscarora Tunnel. This is PRE Turnpike period and the curves leading out of the tunnel is the abandoned SPRR grade. Also the end of the Shade Gap alignment is showm just north of the tunnel.
.....Russ:
Believe I've finally located some of the key points on your aerial view of Somerset.
Located the deep cut generally west of Somerset on the Boswell Branch...The one with the bridge {believe I can see it}, that has been replaced with a fill.
Found the SP ROW from Geiger on around the broad sweeping left curve and heading to cross slightly east of the deep cut....
And even the PW&S ROW you pointed out that's still outside of my hotel window there at the off ramp of the Penn Turnpike.....and can follow it {I believe}, towards the Quemahoning tunnel...but not to the point to see it....And can see the S&C branch leaving Somerset heading for Johnstown.....
....Russ: Was scrolling through Penn. Turnpike stuff and ran across the group {Delmarva Highways}, "touring" the Sideling Hill and Ray's Hill tunnels. Which means I saw your picture. Believe date was Fall of '04. Also showed some locations of the SPRR grade in those areas. Noted your pickup was leading the "parade".
....Seems just a bit strange.....The data that seems to be stuck in my mind, and of course time does {distort some memories}, is that the 160 miles of the first iteration of the Turnpike was accomplished in 23 months....!
Yes, I'm sure some of the nasty terrain and material to blast and claw through took it's toll on machinery. That terrain from the Allegheny tunnel and down through New Baltimore and Bedford area....was and is rough stuff....You know it was done again in "recent years"....At least some of it.
I remember being up on a dirt road, path....with someone where we could look down on one of the Allegheny Tunnel entrances as it was being constructed....A very busy and active work site....Still can see that site in my memory, so it must have impressed me much in my young age. Guess my interest helped me remember of such stuff.....
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