....And would you believe we're right back where this thread started from. No matter, that is a fantastic view from up there...{I've not been on the ground up there in person}, but have been on one of those highways at the base of the hill some years ago. Took that route {don't remember from where}, a nice drive up through there and ended up in Lock Haven. At that time, had an Aunt and Uncle living there. They've since passed on.
Russ...have you finished that trailer yet....?
Quentin
Went camping last year since end of August at least four times on the old abandoned turnpike as seen here. Adrian next to Sue. Trailer is not completed as money came short because of wifes death. This is on the east end of the now bike trail at the Sideling Hill Cove Plaza.
Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.
.....When one thinks about your location there...once a thriving and very busy thruway....now one can camp right beside of it. Would have been hard to imagine years ago as it was still active.
I would wonder about some bears in that area....Think I'd rather be in the trailer...ha. And....I'd have thought I'd see a license plate referencing in some way to the "SouthPenn"......
Bears or not, you must have made out ok....
Glad to hear that portion is at least being used {preserved}, with the bike trail operation.
Been off for a while but our latest discovery is the finding of this culvert which is still used by the turnpike above it and though this end was destroyed and extended by the turnpike by about 20 feet, still exists today. The bottom photo is what it looks like today.
.....Surprised Russ, to see you back on here.....See you're still at it. We were over in the Pennsylvania area over the long Memorial Day Holiday period. And again at the Hampton Inn at Somerset and I thought of you as I looked out our hotel window and glanced down at the old PW&S ROW at the edge of the parking lot.....Heading down towards the toll both.
Hope you are doing well.
Here is the same side as the old photo. The turnpike added onto the South Penn built Fortune Teller Run culvert. The turnpike guard rail is seen topside. This is found at mile post 176.0 exact. I am talking to Tom Taylor owner of the next property east of this culvert site and he is one of the descendants of the original property owners and that was written on the South Penn maps as George Taylor. A bridge just to the east of this site is named Taylor.
By the way on opening post, I waited a long time to get my shot of the Rockville bridge and finally got it here is mine with AM Track o it. Never expected to get this just happened. We arrived just as it was crossing the viaduct. The valley to the right of the top is where the South Penn had done a survey to cross through after building their bridge just up steam from this bridge.
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.....Good photos and data for history Russ. Almost no one has knowledge of when they pass over certain parts of current Turnpike, they are passing over a culvert or small bridge of some kind that was part of RR history of roughly 125 years ago, etc.....But we do. As for me, I know it's there but not just where....But that's ok.
Quentin!
How have you been. Just an update. Still doing the South Penn of course. My latest search is the Chestnut Ridge. I thought I had that section down pat but found an interesting landmark on the rough South Pennsylvania Railroad map and found I was about a mile out of alignment. I found like finger prints about nine marks to verify where the correct alignment was to be built.
And while we're at this, how ARE you Quents? Haven't seen posts from you lately. You may recall that my interest in the South Penn comes from the Reading (P&R) and Gowan/Vanderbilt/Morgan/Scott days. Wish I'd been a fly on the wall to hear what went on there!!!!!
I'm missing you,
Rixflix
rixflix aka Captain Video. Blessed be Jean Shepherd and all His works!!! Hooray for 1939, the all time movie year!!! I took that ride on the Reading but my Baby caught the Katy and left me a mule to ride.
The South Penn was to build a double loop at the Chestnut Ridge at the last mountain along its main line. It is at mile post 84 where traveling east a third lane on the Pennsylvania Turnpike has been built in the 1990's. A deep cut is immediately entered as you travel east as you begin your climb to reach the highway route 982 overpass in the next valley north of the town of Laurelville.
I originally thought the South Penn was to cross just above the community of Alice. However I have a rough map that showed a arrow type boundary line that on the 1939 aerial can be seen the same boundary line. I Immediately re- examined my research to look at other landmarks and actually found more including the area I call star junction. . Basically as you enter this deep turnpike cut a railroad trestle would have needed to have been built high above you today as you travel through the turnpike cut.
This map has red arrows which is the original route I suspected the South Penn was to build creating a south and north loop along the ridge north and south of the Pennsylvania Turnpike as it is built. The blue arrows are the adjusted route using nine landmarks found on the 1939 aerial photos that used show where it really should be built. I look at these landmarks as a finger print marks that identify a persons identity. I will up load these later as I have to do this where I have free wifi locations as I have very little air card space on my own supply card.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/topochestnutridge-1.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/BurntCabins67.jpg
A section just to the west of Burnt Cabins with the insert showing the SPRR map grades location on the aerial. Partially built but of course never completed. The turnpike i utilizing most of this proposed section just west of Huntingdon County in Fulton County.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/MergedChestnutRidgecomp.jpg
Here is the aerial of the Chestnut Ridge. If this is not good for viewing then pease send for it via e-mail as Photobucket tends to make them small.
I can't beleive the South Penn would've gone north of H'burg instead of going over the PH&P bridge.
RIX
rixflix And while we're at this, how ARE you Quents? Haven't seen posts from you lately. You may recall that my interest in the South Penn comes from the Reading (P&R) and Gowan/Vanderbilt/Morgan/Scott days. Wish I'd been a fly on the wall to hear what went on there!!!!! I'm missing you, Rixflix
Hi Rix..............Sure, I'm on here each day.....We're hanging in there and taking one day at a time. I see your posts on here when you appear occasionally, and do respond...Perhaps you missed them.
Hang in there and enjoy
That was an exploratory route. They surveyed it as a possibility but killed that route for of course the route at the site we all know of at Lemoyne. But understand b4 they got into the fight with the Pennsylvania that they (Vanderbilt) had the Sherman Valley and Broad top route which was the one they rejected at the Marysville route. Your learning something that not to many people know of or could have imagined until I revealed it just like I didn't know about Col Stonewall Jackson had detoured some B&O trains south out of Harper;s Ferry as a topic on this form mentions.
Soth Pennsylvania letter describing the double 2% grade loop and the 1% straight grade that the Turnpike chose to use on the Chestnut Ridge. Notice how an alternate alignment was planned to West Newton on the Youghiogheny River just south of Sutersville on what was the P&LE Vanderbilt line.
Can you guess what it cost to build a two story house back then?
Answer!
I bought tickets for that Amtrak ride so I will be crossing that bridge about 12:00 on the 26 of February.
southpennrailroad The South Penn was to build a double loop at the Chestnut Ridge at the last mountain along its main line. It is at mile post 84 where traveling east a third lane on the Pennsylvania Turnpike has been built in the 1990's. A deep cut is immediately entered as you travel east as you begin your climb to reach the highway route 982 overpass in the next valley north of the town of Laurelville. I originally thought the South Penn was to cross just above the community of Alice. However I have a rough map that showed a arrow type boundary line that on the 1939 aerial can be seen the same boundary line. I Immediately re- examined my research to look at other landmarks and actually found more including the area I call star junction. . Basically as you enter this deep turnpike cut a railroad trestle would have needed to have been built high above you today as you travel through the turnpike cut. This map has red arrows which is the original route I suspected the South Penn was to build creating a south and north loop along the ridge north and south of the Pennsylvania Turnpike as it is built. The blue arrows are the adjusted route using nine landmarks found on the 1939 aerial photos that used show where it really should be built. I look at these landmarks as a finger print marks that identify a persons identity. I will up load these later as I have to do this where I have free wifi locations as I have very little air card space on my own supply card. http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/topochestnutridge-1.jpg
That's an interesting mark-up of the USGS topo map - thanks for posting it.
Have you seen Herbert H. Harwood's recent book, "The Railroad That Never Was" ? Any comments or a review of it ? Thanks.
- Paul North.
southpennrailroad http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/BurntCabins67.jpg A section just to the west of Burnt Cabins with the insert showing the SPRR map grades location on the aerial. Partially built but of course never completed. The turnpike i utilizing most of this proposed section just west of Huntingdon County in Fulton County.
southpennrailroad http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/MergedChestnutRidgecomp.jpg Here is the aerial of the Chestnut Ridge. If this is not good for viewing then pease send for it via e-mail as Photobucket tends to make them small.
Thanks for adjusting the link. It has been a while since I posted on here and i kind of forgot how.
As for the new book by Herb Harwood.
Sure I have seen it as he sent me a signed copy as a thank you for him using my material. Have you read it and spotted the many times he has mentioned the name of Russell Love. He has all of Chapter 15 marked as being non existent without my (Russell Love) research. He describes the whole route in that chapter after he purchased my DVD's. He apparently studied the work and wrote about where it is or should have been located. I could not be impartial to what the book is as being good or bad. I have my name mentioned to much. Also look at some of the added photos he used of mine.
I really should write my own book describing the route. I was thinking of using the 1884 report I have and adding photos of all the property owners mentioned in that report as well as the maps.
Oh my web page is back up @ southpennrailroad.com. Some great photos of the South Penn sites. A few then and now shots.
Hey, you're welcome - the least I could do, for all the really good stuff you've posted. For me, all I have to do is 'paste' in the URL link, then hit the 'Space' bar once to add a space at the end - and it usually 'lights up' in blue with an underline, and works automatically. There are other ways such as by putting the URL inside a pair of brackets with some special HTML code in them, but I'm not familiar enough with those technical details.
Thanks also for the insight on the Harwood book - I haven't seen it yet, but doubt if I'd have ever guessed that you were that much involved with it. So now I have another good reason to check it out soon. I'll take a look at your website later on.
I have been researching the South Penn for 15 years now and when you consider it has been sitting for over 120 years and I am just one person, I think I learned a lot and have been glad to share what I found in this forum. I still will not be finished as I know there is so much more.
When I saw the topic of the Rockville bridge I just had to chime in to show it's connection with the South Penn. Oh the name of that alignment was to be called the Liberty Valley alignment. It would have connected with the area west at Burnt Cabins at the Fulton County Line.
William Shunk was the chief field engineer and when he was first hired he apparently had some insight as to what they wanted in in my own view of how he described what he was asked to do was (What are you crazy ?) Well I have a letter which he wrote after he saw the survey on maps he helped make and oof course survey and he called it PHENOMINAL!
Well if I get around to writing a book it will be titled "The South Pennsylvania Railroad route, The PHENOMENAL Railroad." I will produce that letter tomorrow as I have not much MB on my card. I will need to goto the Library to up load that and any other.
Russ.....Just peeked at the Web site, and took a quick look. Very nice....and it will require much more time to absorb data & photos.
I always over do things. I figure it has been dormant for so long I try to get it out as much as possible.
Here is one more shot of the Rockville Bridge.
Here is the map of the Marysville crossing into Perry County and as you can see at the bottom right hand corner the tag belonging to the SPRR. The thin line just to the north of the Rockville bridge was to be the crossing of the South Penn.
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