What about the fencing in of farms against the railroad? Let this document answer that. Also what the population was like in 1884 in the eastern section of Somerset County.
Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.
The railroad didn't pay a fair price for the property being taken. Read these next documents and how they cheated John Snyder. John Snyders property is located near Horse Track Road.
AlleghenyTunnel blast... Fatality!!
....Well that is a conglomeration of stories....dynamite, angrly farmers, and tunnel casualities.....Big bucks for fences, houses...etc.
Wonder how much $1000 ='s in 2007 dollars....? I do not have any info on inflation {or deflation}, thru time to make the comparison.
One question I do have though....How did these folks we're reading about move about....Like one saying "I'm going out to the tunnel today" , etc....."Or I was in Pittsburgh yesterday"....How did they move about these distances...It had to be horses and only horses and maybe at times, horse and buggy...But out in these territories there were next to no roads....!
The Pennsylvania RR was in across Pennsylvania at that time, but these Engineers, etc....had to move about in rough terrain where no means of transport existed. And probably almost no roads.
Quentin
....Yes, and that one fellow was saying something about stopping and seeing {female}, along the way out to the tunnel....and I believe he even said something about made it back to the same place and stayed all night. Probably worked late by the oil lamp on papers and then went straight to bed.....Right....
....If you don't have a book published or collect your documented items and get them in some order to....someone that might carry it on farther....You might consider an appropriate museum curator.
How about the one {museum}, in Greensburg....There is a painting in that museum of my family's gas station...{Mong's Esso Station}, as it was closed "for the duration"....{WWII}. It was located along rt. 30 at Stoystown, Pa., and the painting was made in I believe it was about 1942 or 43.
Sold the property in '82 or so and later it was turned into a 24hr ambulance station.
...Sorry to hear you had such unfortunate contact there.
I had never had a chance to see the painting of my family's gas station there, and I emailed the Curator at Westmoreland Museum of American Art asking when that painting might be on display {they rotate them}, and she copied it {the image}, onto the computer and sent it to me.....I was very grateful.
poneykeg:
Can you be more specific about your post....What area are you addressing....?
.....Location of original Penn. Turnpike was from Irwin extending east to Carlisle, Pa. Opened Oct. 1st, 1940. {At midnight}. Roughly 160 miles in length. W / max. 3% grade.
....Yes, Russ...I do remember the penny / mile charge at opening and for some time after that before the toll was raised. Believe it was at that rate for quite a while.
Well, tomorrow morning we'll head that way {Somerset}....Back about Tues. evening.
New tool used to discover new sites of the SPRR has been passed over to me and I now know where the South Penn was compared to where the turnpike was. Here is an example of the one shot I saved showing how much of the turnpike right of way actually existed at the town of Donegal. Exit 9.
I'm going to say that this was furthest the end of the work grade west of Harrisburg was done. Look at the dark line just to the south of the town. That is the turnpike today.
....Good picture. At first I thought it was a satellite rendition of the area, but when I enlarged it and noted the date on the pic. and the dark line you show, I realized it's a photo from an airplane of the bygone era.
I believe the light colored line {highway}, is present day rt. 31, east / west, which we just traveled thru there on a few days ago. Believe just beyond that location {west}, the RR contemplated digging a tunnel....But it doesn't seem to indicate that on this photo.
When we headed east last week, and was about to get on the turnpike at New Stanton, the traffic was lined up about a mile moving at a snail's pace and then we noted signs of construction work on the turnpike and could be delays. So I continued on north to Greensburg and got on rt. 30 east...{and found some construction there too}, but we really didn't get held up much at all.
Yes, I believe you had commented once before on this thread that you thought Donegal was the western terminus of SPRR actual construction.
....Another thought. I'm going to bring up Donegal on a Satellite photo and do some comparisons to your pic Russ....
Here are a few more with the SPRR in then W/O the Pike
Below Just to the west of the Sideling Hill Tunnel in Valli High. Showing the CCC camp @ the railroad curve.
Below just west of Somerset
....The Sideling Hill one is easy to spot....both sides of the tunnel, but the Somerset picture.....That one has me really looking. Just studyed it a bit here this morning and can say, I don't completely have all of what I'm seeing identifyed yet.
And I thought I was pretty familiar with the Somerset area. One thing I don't understand {if this photo was made in {May, '39}, is the fact I can't see any turnpike construction underway, and for that date, I think some earth movement should be visible.
Believe the picture shows {dark line}, SPRR crossing of Stoysown road near Geiger and then as it works west passes around the long sweeping {left}, turn and heads to cross {now, 985}, but the locations of the other RR's in the shot....I just don't have that totally clear yet.
For May of 1939, we should see some action of construction of the Penn Turnpike....That has me puzzled.
....Seems just a bit strange.....The data that seems to be stuck in my mind, and of course time does {distort some memories}, is that the 160 miles of the first iteration of the Turnpike was accomplished in 23 months....!
Yes, I'm sure some of the nasty terrain and material to blast and claw through took it's toll on machinery. That terrain from the Allegheny tunnel and down through New Baltimore and Bedford area....was and is rough stuff....You know it was done again in "recent years"....At least some of it.
I remember being up on a dirt road, path....with someone where we could look down on one of the Allegheny Tunnel entrances as it was being constructed....A very busy and active work site....Still can see that site in my memory, so it must have impressed me much in my young age. Guess my interest helped me remember of such stuff.....
....Russ: Was scrolling through Penn. Turnpike stuff and ran across the group {Delmarva Highways}, "touring" the Sideling Hill and Ray's Hill tunnels. Which means I saw your picture. Believe date was Fall of '04. Also showed some locations of the SPRR grade in those areas. Noted your pickup was leading the "parade".
.....Russ:
Believe I've finally located some of the key points on your aerial view of Somerset.
Located the deep cut generally west of Somerset on the Boswell Branch...The one with the bridge {believe I can see it}, that has been replaced with a fill.
Found the SP ROW from Geiger on around the broad sweeping left curve and heading to cross slightly east of the deep cut....
And even the PW&S ROW you pointed out that's still outside of my hotel window there at the off ramp of the Penn Turnpike.....and can follow it {I believe}, towards the Quemahoning tunnel...but not to the point to see it....And can see the S&C branch leaving Somerset heading for Johnstown.....
Shade Gap Railroad to connection with SPRR @ west Portal Tuscarora Tunnel. This is PRE Turnpike period and the curves leading out of the tunnel is the abandoned SPRR grade. Also the end of the Shade Gap alignment is showm just north of the tunnel.
....It's easy to see, engineers / surveyors had no choice at Tuscarora. One way to get across it....Thru it...! And a long way it was too.
....I have read the designers / engineers proclaimed the route of the SPRR would have been one of the best possible {within reason}, across Pennsylvania.
I wonder if it really would have been competitive in speed and ease of running across it, and if it would ever have reached double track capacity. Something that would have been necessary to be on par with the Pennsy. The grades {as I understand it}, would have been competitive with the Pennsy.
Guess we'll never know....But as I've also read, the route...{Penn Turnpike}, probably did help to put the Pennsy in financial trouble.
Vanderbilt in a sense by the use of the turnpike could be the revenge he was looking for. He just died and didn't see his dream fulfilled. I understand he eventually reconciled with Roberts but still forget all that He won.
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