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Bird's eye view of Rockville Bridge near Harrisburg Pa....

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Sunday, July 29, 2007 2:58 PM

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What about the fencing in of farms against the railroad? Let this document answer that. Also what the population was like in 1884 in the eastern section of Somerset County.

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Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Sunday, July 29, 2007 3:03 PM

The railroad didn't pay a fair price for the property being taken. Read these next documents and how they cheated John Snyder. John Snyders property is located near Horse Track Road.

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Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Sunday, July 29, 2007 5:08 PM

AlleghenyTunnel blast... Fatality!!

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Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, July 29, 2007 9:14 PM

....Well that is a conglomeration of stories....dynamite, angrly farmers, and tunnel casualities.....Big bucks for fences, houses...etc.

Wonder how much $1000 ='s in 2007  dollars....?  I do not have any info on inflation {or deflation}, thru time to make the comparison.

One question I do have though....How did these folks we're reading about move about....Like one saying "I'm going out to the tunnel today" , etc....."Or I was in Pittsburgh yesterday"....How did they move about these distances...It had to be horses and only horses and maybe at times, horse and buggy...But out in these territories there were next to no roads....!

The Pennsylvania RR was in across Pennsylvania at that time, but these Engineers, etc....had to move about in rough terrain where no means of transport existed.  And probably almost no roads.

Quentin

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Sunday, July 29, 2007 9:27 PM
I do have that answer, it was horse back. The right of way agent describes how snow was up to the horse's belly with ice on the snow and had to stop overnight. I will try to find that.

Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.

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Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, July 29, 2007 9:37 PM

....Yes, and that one fellow was saying something about stopping and seeing {female}, along the way out to the tunnel....and I believe he even said something about made it back to the same place and stayed all night.  Probably worked late by the oil lamp on papers and then went straight to bed.....Right....

Quentin

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Sunday, July 29, 2007 9:41 PM
He was very dilligent about his work. I have hundreds of his letters. If i could only put these in a book for others to read. Interesting material. I just don't know whats going to become of my stuff when I am gone. It's not going to be good. I am all that is left of this stuff. Unless others go get into this subject, it's gone.

Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.

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Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, July 29, 2007 10:03 PM

....If you don't have a book published or collect your documented items and get them in some order to....someone that might carry it on farther....You might consider an appropriate museum curator.

How about the one {museum}, in Greensburg....There is a painting in that museum of my family's gas station...{Mong's Esso Station}, as it was closed "for the duration"....{WWII}.  It was located along rt. 30 at Stoystown, Pa., and the painting was made in I believe it was about 1942 or 43.

Sold the property in '82 or so and later it was turned into a 24hr ambulance station.

Quentin

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Monday, July 30, 2007 2:53 AM
I've been to that place and don't like them in the least. There are a set of maps hanging in their hallway that I knew the man that owned them and promissed to get them copied and he forgot and just before he left the state for Georgia he wrote a not saying he had done so and asked that this be done as it had the SPRR on it and wanted me to have a copy. They said no even with a note saying so. They were rude about it more then just saying no. Yet they did want my material as well especially what I had about the right of way in Westmoreland County.

Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.

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Posted by Modelcar on Monday, July 30, 2007 8:22 AM

...Sorry to hear you had such unfortunate contact there.

I had never had a chance to see the painting of my family's gas station there, and I emailed the Curator at Westmoreland Museum of American Art asking when that painting might be on display {they rotate them}, and she copied it {the image}, onto the computer and sent it to me.....I was very grateful.

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Posted by poneykeg on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 9:59 AM
that might have been the location of  the tp origianaly but  that would be I81 now as the turnpike is about 6 mi south-- I76
south of the Rathole
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Posted by Modelcar on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 10:23 AM

 

poneykeg:

Can you be more specific about your post....What area are you addressing....?

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, August 1, 2007 9:37 AM

.....Location of original Penn. Turnpike was from Irwin extending east to Carlisle, Pa.  Opened Oct. 1st, 1940. {At midnight}.  Roughly 160 miles in length.  W / max. 3% grade.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Wednesday, August 1, 2007 3:26 PM
12:01 am to be exact! @ .01 cents per mile totaling $1.60 for the whole trip.

Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, August 1, 2007 4:25 PM

....Yes, Russ...I do remember the penny / mile charge at opening and for some time after that before the toll was raised.  Believe it was at that rate for quite a while.

Well, tomorrow morning we'll head that way {Somerset}....Back about Tues. evening.

Quentin

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Friday, August 10, 2007 7:14 PM

New tool used to discover new sites of the SPRR has been passed over to me and I now know where the South Penn was compared to where the turnpike was. Here is an example of the one shot I saved showing how much of the turnpike right of way actually existed at the town of Donegal. Exit 9.Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

 I'm going to say that this was furthest the end of the work grade west of Harrisburg was done. Look at the dark line just to the south of the town. That is the turnpike today.

 

Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.

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Posted by Modelcar on Friday, August 10, 2007 8:58 PM

....Good picture.  At first I thought it was a satellite rendition of the area, but when I enlarged it and noted the date on the pic. and the dark line you show, I realized it's a photo from an airplane of the bygone era.

I believe the light colored line {highway}, is present day rt. 31, east / west, which we just traveled thru there on a few days ago.  Believe just beyond that location {west}, the RR contemplated digging a tunnel....But it doesn't seem to indicate that on this photo.

When we headed east last week, and was about to get on the turnpike at New Stanton, the traffic was lined up about a mile moving at a snail's pace and then we noted signs of construction work on the turnpike and could be delays.  So I continued on north to Greensburg and got on rt. 30 east...{and found some construction there too}, but we really didn't get held up much at all.

Yes, I believe you had commented once before on this thread that you thought Donegal was the western terminus of SPRR actual construction.

Quentin

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Posted by Modelcar on Friday, August 10, 2007 9:37 PM

....Another thought.  I'm going to bring up Donegal on a Satellite photo and do some comparisons to your pic Russ....

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Friday, August 10, 2007 9:55 PM
Sorry power went out and just got back on. I also found one with the grade leading to Somerset. no turnpike of course in that year.

Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Friday, August 10, 2007 10:20 PM

 Here are a few more with the SPRR in then W/O the Pike

 

Below Just to the west of the Sideling Hill Tunnel in Valli High. Showing the CCC camp @ the railroad curve. 

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 Below just west of Somerset

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Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.

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Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, August 11, 2007 6:45 AM

....The Sideling Hill one is easy to spot....both sides of the tunnel, but the Somerset picture.....That one has me really looking.  Just studyed it a bit here this morning and can say, I don't completely have all of what I'm seeing identifyed yet.

And I thought I was pretty familiar with the Somerset area.  One thing I don't understand {if this photo was made in {May, '39}, is the fact I can't see any turnpike construction underway, and for that date, I think some earth movement should be visible.

Believe the picture shows {dark line}, SPRR crossing of Stoysown road near Geiger and then as it works west passes around the long sweeping {left}, turn and heads to cross {now, 985}, but the locations of the other RR's in the shot....I just don't have that totally clear yet.

For May of 1939, we should see some action of construction of the Penn Turnpike....That has me puzzled.

 

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Saturday, August 11, 2007 7:21 AM
The turnpike was suppose to take two years to build. However because of bad weather it took 1.5 years with added on contractors who all got 5 miles each. Thus segments were done like the railroad. I agree it looks this way but was actually done in that 1.5 and the grades in some areas not done almost to the final end. EXAMPLE The clear Ridge Cut was actually done in the last month before the opening. The hardest section was the area just east of the Bedford interchange. The cut rock took its toll on the then NEW equipment. Now those pieces of equipment are still rusting about as we see them today and call them antiques.

Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.

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Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, August 11, 2007 8:28 AM

....Seems just a bit strange.....The data that seems to be stuck in my mind, and of  course time does {distort some memories}, is that the 160 miles of the first iteration of the Turnpike was accomplished in 23 months....!

Yes, I'm sure some of the nasty terrain and material to blast and claw through took it's toll on machinery.  That terrain from the Allegheny tunnel and down through New Baltimore and Bedford area....was and is rough stuff....You know it was done again in "recent years"....At least some of it.

I remember being up on a dirt road, path....with someone where we could look down on one of the Allegheny Tunnel entrances as it was being constructed....A very busy and active work site....Still can see that site in my memory, so it must have impressed me much in my young age.  Guess my interest helped me remember of such stuff.....

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Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, August 11, 2007 1:55 PM

....Russ:  Was scrolling through Penn. Turnpike stuff and ran across the group {Delmarva Highways}, "touring" the Sideling Hill and Ray's Hill tunnels.  Which means I saw your picture.  Believe date was Fall of '04.  Also showed some locations of the SPRR grade in those areas.  Noted your pickup was leading the "parade".

Quentin

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Saturday, August 11, 2007 3:29 PM
Yep was there. They came for the pike but got to see the railroad  instead or to. That was a great trip. Tour guide I am when it comes to the railroad and as a bonus the turnpike.

Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.

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Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, August 11, 2007 8:55 PM

.....Russ:

Believe I've finally located some of the key points on your aerial view of Somerset.

Located the deep cut generally west of Somerset on the Boswell Branch...The one with the bridge {believe I can see it}, that has been replaced with a fill.

Found the SP ROW from Geiger on around the broad sweeping left curve and heading to cross slightly east of the deep cut....

And even the PW&S ROW you pointed out that's still outside of my hotel window there at the off ramp of the Penn Turnpike.....and can follow it {I believe}, towards the Quemahoning tunnel...but not to the point to see it....And can see the S&C branch leaving Somerset heading for Johnstown.....

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Saturday, August 11, 2007 11:05 PM

Shade Gap Railroad to connection with SPRR @ west Portal Tuscarora Tunnel. This is PRE Turnpike period and the curves leading out of the tunnel is the abandoned SPRR grade. Also the end of the Shade Gap alignment is showm just north of the tunnel.

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Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.

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Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, August 12, 2007 6:33 AM

....It's easy to see, engineers / surveyors had no choice at Tuscarora.  One way to get across it....Thru it...!   And a long way it was too.

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Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, August 12, 2007 9:57 PM

....I have read the designers / engineers proclaimed the route of the SPRR would have been one of the best possible {within reason}, across Pennsylvania.

I wonder if it really would have been competitive in speed and ease of running across it, and if it would ever have reached double track capacity.  Something that would have been necessary to be on par with the Pennsy.  The grades {as I understand it}, would have been competitive with the Pennsy. 

Guess we'll never know....But as I've also read, the route...{Penn Turnpike}, probably did help to put the Pennsy in financial trouble.

Quentin

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:02 PM

Vanderbilt in a sense by the use of the turnpike could be the revenge he was looking for. He just died and didn't see his dream fulfilled. I understand he eventually reconciled with Roberts but still forget all that  He won.

 

Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.

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