How can a Short Line get into the intermodal Buisness?

[Anonymous]

Could a itty bitty short line act as a feeder service for Intermodal Containers and interchange them in general freight service?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Highly unlikely these days as intermodal hubs have gotten larger and almost all of the small piggyback ramps that handled only a handful of trailers a day have been abandoned. Intermodal loses much of its advantage to the railroad if a multiplicity of small ramps need to be served, making the intermodal train that serves those ramps little more than a local that handles TOFC instead of boxcars.

[Overmod]

There's at least one railroad in north-central New Jersey that's intending to do exactly that (according to Progressive Railroading magazine):

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/freightnews/article.asp?id=8067

[Anonymous]

In the right place and time and with the right equipment, all things are possible...

LC

[samfp1943]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

There's at least one railroad in north-central New Jersey that's intending to do exactly that (according to Progressive Railroading magazine):

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/freightnews/article.asp?id=8067

The "Susie-Q", the Susquehanna Railroad used to get a lot of publicity in TRAINS for run Intermodals in conjunction with the Norfolk Southern, they ran across the "Southern Tier" line across New York, and into New Jersey, although I do not know if they are still doing that now.

[Anonymous]

Pacific Harbor Line Inc
Los Angeles CA
http://www.Anacostia.com/phl/phl.html

[cstaats]

I remember when the Suzie Q started up with the Intermodal business. It is being in the right place at the right time. They were a good alternative to dealing with NJT. Though I think the traffic has tapered off since the Conrail split. They are hauling a lot of garbage these days.

[Anonymous]

They no longer haul the Intermodal Trains anymore after the CSX, NS and Conrail Merger.

[Anonymous]

I was thinking in a underserved market...Jamestown Ny NY&P on the old Erie Laccawanna might be a example

[Allen Jenkins]

[8D]
Here is one in the making, a middle Tennessee east-west connector, which shall be run in part by the Nashville & Eastern, across the Tennessee Central Heritage rail line. http://www.herald-citizen.com/NF/omf.wnm/herald/news_story.html?rkey=0038812+cr=gdn

[daveklepper]

Thanks, Allen, for the good news. Hope this is successful!

[oltmannd]

Shortlines can participate in intermodal by developing a terminal and convincing shippers to use it. The P&W in Worceseter is a good example of this.

[rrnut282]

There was a "Hoosier Lift" in Reynolds, IN on the Toledo, Peoria, & Western track just east of I-65. TP&W ran them west to BN allowing trucks to avoid Chicago. I drove by last October and it was VERY QUIET for an intermodal facility. I don't know if BN lost interest after merging with ATSF (which at one time owned the TP&W), or what happened. So if a short line wants to succeed, it needs a lot of truck traffic with a good connection and routings to various destinations.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrnut282

There was a "Hoosier Lift" in Reynolds, IN on the Toledo, Peoria, & Western track just east of I-65. TP&W ran them west to BN allowing trucks to avoid Chicago. I drove by last October and it was VERY QUIET for an intermodal facility. I don't know if BN lost interest after merging with ATSF (which at one time owned the TP&W), or what happened. So if a short line wants to succeed, it needs a lot of truck traffic with a good connection and routings to various destinations.

Boy, that has pretty much just dwindled and died out there, hasn't it? Shame too, with everything one hears about Chicago congestion.

THERE was a viable alternative to Chicago, that has been let go to seed.

[arbfbe]

Any time you want to move traffic off one railroad you get into the issue of joint rates. If the larger railroad does not want to share the wealth the short line has little chance of getting a favorable split with the class one. A second disadvantage is the intermodal shipments also have a rubber tire component so they can load at any intermodal terminal so traffic originating on the short line can escape the short line service are by the high ways.

Class 1 carriers want to maximize the investment in their terminal investment and that means moving the maximum number of boxes and trailers through the gate. They would rather have the place plugged than let even one shipment come from off line.

Good Luck with the project. See if you can get at least a free lunch from some marketing manager from the class 1 for your time.

[edbenton]

Another wau is to but a bunch of trailers and lease them to say UPS or one of the other package or LTL companies.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrnut282

There was a "Hoosier Lift" in Reynolds, IN on the Toledo, Peoria, & Western track just east of I-65. TP&W ran them west to BN allowing trucks to avoid Chicago. I drove by last October and it was VERY QUIET for an intermodal facility. I don't know if BN lost interest after merging with ATSF (which at one time owned the TP&W), or what happened. So if a short line wants to succeed, it needs a lot of truck traffic with a good connection and routings to various destinations.

The Hoosierlift is actually a bit further west, located between Remington and Wolcott.[:)]

BNSF and TP&W ended their joint intermodal service to the Hoosierlift in October 2003 and then discontinued their East Peoria operation in late January 2004. Canadian National, however, continues to make use of TP&W's East Peoria facility for mostly Caterpillar business moving through the Port of Halifax, Nova Scotia. Some business moves through Vancouver, BC.

Since November, the Hoosierlift has been mostly used to load autoracks for GM with most destined for California.

[CaptainChuck]

The St.L&A and CN have a good deal going. Auburn, Maine has an intermodal facility and has had it for a number of years.

[theodorefisk]

Not saying it cannot be done in specific markets, but not every intermodal project is going to work. I work in the intermodal marketing business and it is all about costs and the need for a margin with the bottomline providing a rate and service competitive option to highway. Those involved in doing the research need to understand rail vs highway options and also rail controlled vs private equipment options. Equipment can range from 20/40/45 foot steamship containers to the domestic 48/53 containers. Lots of things to keep in mind and reseach to do before anything happens. I have seen many projects started and abandoned when the reality of intermodal transportation sets in. It is a great business, but not for the faint of heart. Ted

[narig01]

What about Road-Railers? I threw some stuff out on a forum several weeks back,about light rail freight, to see what would happen. One of the things I wanted to bring up was Road Railers(I think NS is misusing them)
Also Trash hauling involves a lot of intermodal, remember E-Max Containers?
Examples of shortlines in Intermodal,Wheeling & West Virginia, They have a ramp outside Pittsburg & run to somewhere near Toledo?
New England Central, runs a ramp outside Springfield,Ma
Though I wouldn't count as a shortline Florida East Coast, used to do a lot of business Jacksonville,Fl to Miami. They also Pick up loads as far away as Atlanta & Macon, Ga & send by road to Jacksonville.
Rgds
narig01

[Anonymous]

TP&W is still in the intermodal business although not to the extent it was. The railroad (and its owner, RailAmerica) won the 2000 Short Line Marketing Award for a deal done with CN on Caterpillar intermodal traffic. Parts from Europe come in to the port of Halifax. CN brings them into Chicago and then down to the T{&W interchange at Gilman, IL. TP&W brings the traffic into East Peoria, where the containers are grounded and trucked to Caterpillar facilities both locally in Peoria and regionally.

TP&W had been an intermodal agent for BNSF. The big customer served from Hoosierlift was Isuzu Motors. Isuzu shared space at Subaru's assembly plant in Lafayette, IN, and many of the imported parts for Isuzu came via BNSF from the west coast to the TP&W, and then TP&W to Hoosierlift. In addition, TP&W terminated containers for the BNSF at East Peoria for such customers as Misubishi Motors' Bloomington Assembly plant, Wal-Mart, HON, and others. All that business has gone away. The Isuzu business went when Isuzu stopped assembling vehicles in the U.S. The BNSF traffic into East Peoria stopped after BNSF opened Logistics Park in Joliet.

The biggest issue with a short line doing intermodal is cost vs. revenue. Running a ramp, even a small ramp, is an expensive proposition. Track conditions on many short lines preclude running a speed- how viable is an intermodal service with a maximum authorized speed of 25 MPH? Since the short line is not going to have a haul of any great length, the revenue split with the Class I is not going to be very good. My analogy for a short line doing intermodal was the guy with a giant trash bag on the side of the road picking up cans to recycle. You might survive doing that, but you won't prosper and you'll have do find an awful lot of cans just to survive!

[Anonymous]

The best scenario for a shortline to expand into the intermodal market is if it has at least one end point where there is already an established intermodal terminal. If such exists, then the shortline can basically run their own trains of intermodal equipment without the restrictions of the connecting Class I. Some observations:

1. An existing intermodal terminal has it's own lift on lift off equipment, so the terminal operator can take care of loading and unloading containers and trailers onto whatever suitable rail cars the shortline can provide. No need for expensive infrastructure development on the part of the shortline. And many localities have or are planning development of their own small intermodal terminals as part of an economic development plan, so it may be your locale can provide the transload logistics.

2. As per #1 above, the shortline probably does need either a ramp at the other end, or come up with a way to load into containers or trailers as they sit on the railcar. The Southern a few years back would have two 20' containers placed on opposite ends of a 60' flatcar with the container doors facing into the center of the railcar. They then put down some planks and then would load into the containers by driving the forklift onto the flatcar from the side dock. That's one reason I see promise in the development of the articulated 125' flat car based on the Trinity articulated auto rack base, wherein two 40' to 53' containers could be loaded into the same way by a shortline.

3. About a decade ago, the Camas Prairie railroad (while still co-owned by UP and BN) ran a single 5 pack double stack car a couple times a week from the Port of Lewiston to Seattle over BN as part of a mixed freight consist. One of the problems that arose was that unholy need of BN to shunt the double stack through the hump yard at Pasco, rather than allowing the double stack car to be separated onto a siding and added to the next Seattle bound mixed or intermodal consist. This action caused damage to the product in the containers, and the shipper eventually switched to COB. As has been pointed out, once you place your load into the hands of the Class I you have no say over the operational aspects nor the rates applied therein.

4. From by dealings with RailRunner a few years back, it is financially possible for a shortline to lease bi-modal equipment and use that for containers and trailers, as long as the utilization is relatively high. Because of the low modal transfer costs of bi-modal equipment, the shortline could run COBC (Container On Bi-modal Chassis) from source to terminal, wherein the COBC's could be broken up into rubber tire transfer to the lift on lift off area. You wouldn't even need a direct connection to the intermodal terminal then, just a proximity to it.