Not questioning what you wrote, but was wondering if there was a source? Similar to your "On-sheet" (which makes perfect sense), I had been told long ago that "OS" meant "On-Station", as when trains hit the interlocking "plant" track circuits. The station in this case being "Signal Station" as I had also been told was what interlockings had been called at one time. I'm familiar with New Haven RR Interlockings being identified as SS-(MP no.)
Thanks
I had seen "Railroad Morse" referred to as AMERICAN Morse verses Intrernational endmrw0327182119
jeffhergert In international Morse maybe... Not in the Morse the railroads in the US and Canada used. Jeff
In international Morse maybe...
Not in the Morse the railroads in the US and Canada used.
Jeff
You're right! Interesting. A whole different animal.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 jeffhergert You mean (. . ...) don't you? That would be E E S... O is three dashes.
jeffhergert You mean (. . ...) don't you?
That would be E E S...
O is three dashes.
jeffhergertYou mean (. . ...) don't you?
Kevin C. Smith I am of the opinion (for no other reason than that I am of the opinion) that the "OS" report has never "stood for" anything at all. It is simply that the two-letter Morse code for what would be (by far) the most commonly sent report, would be of the easiest letters ("--- ...")
I am of the opinion (for no other reason than that I am of the opinion) that the "OS" report has never "stood for" anything at all. It is simply that the two-letter Morse code for what would be (by far) the most commonly sent report, would be of the easiest letters ("--- ...")
You mean (. . ...) don't you?
Today on CN "OS" is considered to mean "outer switch", for pay purposes at least. The initial outer switch is the time your initial terminal pay ends, and the final outer switch is when final terminal pay begins.
When operating in OCS (Canadianese for dark territory) we have to call the Dispatcher and give up the track we have just run over. The rulebook refers to this as a "track release", but everyone still calls it a "OS".
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Perhaps about 40 years is the difference between on sheet and out-of-station.
http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/wkdesp.Html
https://books.google.com/books?id=3oTmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA158&dq=%22three+mechanical+plants+replaced+by+cabin+door%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3wL2DqIraAhVNVd8KHa44C1oQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=%22three%20mechanical%20plants%20replaced%20by%20cabin%20door%22&f=true
Well, both "on sheet" and "out of station" mean essentially the same thing, and, lacking a definitive timeline we don't know which came first or if they developed independently. Could be that "on sheet" morphed into "out of station" on some railroads, or vice versa.
The easiest letters in Morse would be T and E (- and .), but I can't think of anything that would stand for. O and S would certainly qualify as very recognizable. Again, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
In Morse, there are what we call prowords, wherein the individual letters aren't considered, only the total word. OS would have been one of them.
I realize this may differ by railroad, but...
"When I was a boy" I spent much of some summers hanging at the C&IM depot. The agent/operator would always "OS" a train to the dispatcher as in: "Extra 53 North OS Manito 1:54 PM". So, on the C&IM the agent/operator would be the one to "OS" the train. I naturally ask him what "OS" meant and he said: "Out of Station".
Years later, when I was working in MARKETING (not operations) for the ICG in Chicago we wanted to increase our share of the UP interchange business at Council Bluffs. In talks with the operating people about improving our service we were confronted with the problem that there were no operators on duty between Ft. Dodge and Council Bluffs at night to arrange meets. I ask why the engineer just couldn't report his position over the radio.
I was told that to have an engineer "OS" his own train would violate the union agreements by crossing craft lines. That function belonged to the operator. So, just block business development because of an obsolete rule. The radio thing, it did work.
So I always understood, and experienced, "OS" as meaning "Out of Station"
matthewsaggie Why the baggageman?
Why the baggageman?
Johnny
B&O always used the Y with a string method of handing up orders. No 'sprung hoops'. I always found handing up to the head end to be easy. The rear end was another thing entirely, especially where the train was moving across a railroad crossing at grade. As we all know from viewing Rochelle, such railroad crossing take a real pounding - a pounding that over time that turns the grade and subgrade to dust or mud - depending upon the level of precipitation. Rules required the head end to pass the pick up point at 30 MPH or less - there was no speed requirement for the rear end. After the engineer got his orders, he was determined to get the train up to track speed as fast as possible. As a Operator after handing up to the head end, for safety's sake you moved away from the train so as not to be struck by anything that could be dragging from from the train - a load holding chain or steel banding. Once away from the train the next order of business was to try to visually pick up the markers on the caboose so you could return to the proper position to hand up to the rear end crew - trying to view all this in the wind borne dust that was being generated by the increasing speed of the train and it's pounding across the railroad crossing, creating more dust with each axle passing over the diamond.
It was also a treat to hand up to passenger trains as you had to deliver orders to the engineer, baggageman and conductor. The baggageman wasn't that far behind the engines, so quick handling of the hoops was required.
Not too many elk in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana and Illinois.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I watched orders hooped up occasionally at Rantoul, IL (ICG). Most of the time the operator would hang them on the stand, which had two forks. The higher was for the engine, the lower for the caboose. When the string was plucked, the fork fell out of the way.
Every now and then the operator would have to go with the "manual" method. I don't recall the lengths of the handles - it wasn't a detail I considered at the time.
I'd imagine that each railroad had their own philosphy on the lengths. They certainly did on most everything else. An image on railroad.net concerning LIRR shows an operator holding two hoops of equal length. They were loaded with orders.
I could be wrong, but I tend to believe Balt may have actually hooped orders during his career.
NDGTelegrapher ' Hooping Up ' Train Orders to Caboose. The Engine Hoop was longer. http://www.shorpy.com/node/19712?size=_original#caption The orders were held in a loop of string which, in turn was held in clips in Wye of Hoop, the top chord open, the side arms often Bamboo.
Train Order Hoops were all the same length - You handed up to the engines by holding the hooping device at the end of it's stick - to hand up to the Conductor on the caboose, you choked up about 1/2 way on the stick. You measured your distance from the rail by touching the tip of the hoop on top of the nearest rail when facing the train - standing at that point you were safely away from the engine when you hooped up. For the rear end crew, you remembered the spot you were standing at for the head end crew.
What Canadian references were used for 'time' time?
What was the precise sequence of signals that was sent?
Was it normal for the agent to 'adjust' the clock's hands, if deviation was observed, or to do further tinkering with it in some way? My understanding was that in the United States, someone connected with the 'time service' would be the only one to do anything other with the clock but wind it -- and in the case of SWCC systems, not even that. So what "adjustments would be made" by the operator? [Note the ATSF pictures that show deviation observed -- there were sets of these; I have seen 'zero', '1' and '2' firsthand, don't know yet how many others were in a set] - it does not damage timing precision to slip the chronometric deviation into a visible slot.
Paul_D_North_Jr (that website could sure use up a lot of not-so-spare time!)
Yeah - don't go there unless you've got some time to spare. One thing leads to another, and another, and pretty soon you're looking for pictures of that landmark you remember... Or any number of other things. Heck, you can sometimes spend an hour just looking at one image.
A few good articles from Trains on this:
Tales of the Peoria Rocket
(the above includes an incident when the train was OS'd out of station twice . . . )
- PDN.
Overmod - your iPhone died in a good cause!
Check out this photo of an SF op: (that website could sure use up a lot of not-so-spare time!)
http://www.shorpy.com/node/23196?size=_original
Paul_D_North_JrOne of the comments below that photo say those clocks - were only 15 of them on the Santa Fe system...
Commenter has it badly muddled, then invokes the name of the ATSF guy (at the time the old clocks were sold off in the '60s) to justify it.
There were at least 63 of those model 19 regulators in the 'first batch' (apparently many had ordinary 288 15-day escapements in them, not SWCCs) - the "15" refers to the number on the 'Gulf Lines' which were first to be completely equipped (according to an article from 1900). I can't find any indication these were specially 'accurized' -- the same could NOT be said for the Seth Thomas Precision Astronomical Regulators that backed up the Western Union/Naval Observatory time signal. (There is one in a BNSF visitor center in Fort Worth, worth a visit if you value pre-Synchronome accurate clocks...)
The notable thing here is that the dial itself is a special thing. It looks like a Montgomery watch dial because it IS a Montgomery dial, designed and specified for these clocks by Henry Montgomery himself when he worked for Santa Fe. There appears to be an enormous range of different clock case styles that received these 'standard' dials -- well beyond the number of #19-cased regulators used by operators.
Here is an article on ATSF timekeeping from only a few years later than the Shorpy pictures:
Re this photo: http://www.shorpy.com/node/6229?size=_original
One of the comments below that photo say those clocks - were only 15 of them on the Santa Fe system (I doubt that, but . . . ) - now go for $100K each!
DeggestyI have not kept up with the changes made in what were CSX lines, but in 1966, the Bow Line operated on Eastern time all the way to Montgomery.
When Dispatching offices were local and the dispatching function was not computerized the local times were observed with a designated time change point.
Working North Vernon, IN on the B&O Westward Trains to St. Louis arrived on Eastern Time and departed on Central Time. Trains to Louisville were on Eastern time for arrival and departure.
The East End Dispatcher at Shops (Washington, IN) had to keep track of his trains in both time zones - 'Wait Until' ordrers issued for a range of points through North Vernon could be a real trip with some points being Eastern and some points Central!
I have not kept up with the changes made in what were CSX lines, but in 1966, the Bow Line operated on Eastern time all the way to Montgomery.
I own a former B&O Station Seth Thomas clock that I got from my Father. It has a normal clock face. I also got his railroad Boulava Railroad Accutron that had two hour hands. The Accutron my parents got for me for my 21st birthday only has a single hour hand.
When I was a Train Order Operator, every day at Noon Eastern Time a signal was sent over the telegraph wire from the Naval Observatory that the station colock was to be checked with and any deviation noted.
Current day, CSX operates on CSX Time - no matter the civilian time zones that may be involved. CSX Time is Eastern - Standard or Daylight as may be in effect at any time. I suspect, in today's computerized world, other carriers are operating on a single time, despite what the civilian time may be.
NDGAt Time Change locations, CPR used one long case clock with TWO T-W-O 2 Hour Hands. One hand RED, the other Gun Metal BLUE.
Railroad crews operating across time zones sometimes used the same approach on their watches - I have seen the hour hands in question called 'Fort Wayne' and sometimes the 'red' hand is gold instead of painted (which goes better with the heat bluing finish on the other hands).
One significant reason for this is that railroaders cannot open or set their own watches (only time service people can do that) and this would apply even to a 'jump hour' control like the one on some Accutrons. So the watch would be set so the hands matched the 'earlier' and 'later' zones and the crew would remember which was which for reference.
I have seen a small number of railroad-approved wristwatches with these (B.W.Raymonds and one Swiss Ball TrainMaster that might have been a custom retrofit) but they are rare. This likely coincides with the great dieback of long-distance passenger trains coinciding with the (gradual) replacement of approved pocket watches with their wrist equivalents.
BaltACD NDG " OS ! " http://www.shorpy.com/node/23196?size=_original#caption Thank You.
NDG " OS ! " http://www.shorpy.com/node/23196?size=_original#caption Thank You.
Thank You.
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