One park I walk in has the W&LE for a border, and this summer crews have been working on the tracks, which up until now have been made of 40' rail joined together. A couple of weeks ago a number of 40' rails were dropped along the ballast and now I see they've been installed. But the new rails have been welded, not bolted, together.
This is new to me. I always thought railroads installed new, really heavy welded rail, and that it seemed to come in mile-long lengths off of rollers. I don't know if the newly installed rail is new or used, and right now only one side of the track is welded. If they weld both sides I'll miss the clickety-clack that is so Old School to me.
Doubtless I don't understand what I've been looking at, so can someone here explain this?
Are you saying that one rail is jointed and the other is welded?
Is the track segment you are viewing on a curve or a tangent?
Is the jointed rail on the inside or outside of the curve?
On curves, normally the outside or 'high' rail will be the one that wears sooner than does the inside or 'low' rail presuming that the curves has superelevation and spirals built into it.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Superelevation is designated for the priority, or preference, for either freight or passenger. If it is for passenger service the lower rail will sustain greater wear because the lower rail has the heavier loads wearing against it. If for freight the passenger trains will restrain their speed to avoid tipping over.
diningcarSuperelevation is designated for the priority, or preference, for either freight or passenger. If it is for passenger service the lower rail will sustain greater wear because the lower rail has the heavier loads wearing against it. If for freight the passenger trains will restrain their speed to avoid tipping over.
WLE rails have not had scheduled passenger service this century and for most of the last century.
The track is straight, no curves involved in this. The east rail remains jointed, the west rail is now welded.
Last W&LE scheduled service on this line was 1938.
I assume the "40' rails" are actually 39 ft? (Come to think: does any steel mill still produce 39-ft rails? If not, when were the last ones made?)
Welded rail trains are still a just quarter-mile long nowadays?
The W&LE line is 25 mph? Or less? Does seem odd that they would think welding it was worthwhile.
My discussion about superelevation was just general information and not applicable to the current W&LE discussion.
timz: I'm sure you're right about the length; I rounded up.
The W&LE is considerably faster these days than previously; thirty or more miles an hour is what I'm seeing.
W&LE being smaller Regional Carrier, I doubt that they own the machienry necessary for the proper laying of welded rail. Being frugal, I suspect they don't want to spend what is necessary to hire a contractor to come in and properly lay welded rail.
I believe some of the mills manufacturing rail are making them in 78 foot lengths. Rails from the mills of whatever length get sent to carrier rail welding plants and go out of the plant in 1440 foot lengths, which are dropped where the rail is needed for installation. The Class 1 carriers when they install the 1440 segments into the track will follow up the installation by welding up the joints of the 1440 foot segments. The only 'joints' that get left in the track structure are the Insulated Joints that are required for the various Signal and Crossing Protection apparatus.
The Iowa Interstate had some existing jointed rail field welded. It seems like I've heard of others do the same. I seem to recall the CN on some of it's exIC trackage in Iowa doing this, too.
Maybe the WLE wanted to replace some badly worn rail before field welding it.
Jeff
jeffhergert The Iowa Interstate had some existing jointed rail field welded. It seems like I've heard of others do the same. I seem to recall the CN on some of it's exIC trackage in Iowa doing this, too. Maybe the WLE wanted to replace some badly worn rail before field welding it.
I don't believe that most railroads would allow you to weld up true jointed rail without cropping the ends off each stick. The main reason is that the bolt holes for the innermost bolts of each joint would be too close to the heat-affected zone of the weld, and the stress concentrations around the holes combined with the less-than-pristine metallurgy of the HAZ could produce bolt-hole cracks. A secondary reason is the batter and cracks present at the rail ends.
Cropping off the ends, removing all the rail anchors, sliding the rail down, welding, and then reapplying anchors in the a new, welded-rail-appropriate pattern is quite a chore. It's easier to replace the rail with new welder strings and send the used rail back to a rail welding plant (or scrapped). If you aren't set up to handle strings, I guess it's still easier to lay new sticks (or good quality second-hand sticks that have already been processed) than to fart around with all that and still have your ancient crappy rail in place.
Note that when joints ARE used in welded track, the inner two holes are left undrilled and unbolted - that lets you drop the bars and weld the rail with no additional cropping (except for whatever is needed to bring the rail to the correct longitudinal stress state, i.e., "neutral temperature - and, if you're using thermite, the gap needed by the weld process itself.)
Probably somewhere in a rail yard near you, there is a section of track that was rebuilt with track panels at some point, and the inner bolt holes and bolts are missing on those joints as well - even if they will never get around to welding that rail. Track panels come that way, so that they can be bolted OR welded (or, at a derailment, bolted and then welded later). People seldom bother to drill the inner holes in the field.
Dan
dpeltier jeffhergert The Iowa Interstate had some existing jointed rail field welded. It seems like I've heard of others do the same. I seem to recall the CN on some of it's exIC trackage in Iowa doing this, too. Maybe the WLE wanted to replace some badly worn rail before field welding it. I don't believe that most railroads would allow you to weld up true jointed rail without cropping the ends off each stick. The main reason is that the bolt holes for the innermost bolts of each joint would be too close to the heat-affected zone of the weld, and the stress concentrations around the holes combined with the less-than-pristine metallurgy of the HAZ could produce bolt-hole cracks. A secondary reason is the batter and cracks present at the rail ends. Cropping off the ends, removing all the rail anchors, sliding the rail down, welding, and then reapplying anchors in the a new, welded-rail-appropriate pattern is quite a chore. It's easier to replace the rail with new welder strings and send the used rail back to a rail welding plant (or scrapped). If you aren't set up to handle strings, I guess it's still easier to lay new sticks (or good quality second-hand sticks that have already been processed) than to fart around with all that and still have your ancient crappy rail in place. Note that when joints ARE used in welded track, the inner two holes are left undrilled and unbolted - that lets you drop the bars and weld the rail with no additional cropping (except for whatever is needed to bring the rail to the correct longitudinal stress state, i.e., "neutral temperature - and, if you're using thermite, the gap needed by the weld process itself.) Probably somewhere in a rail yard near you, there is a section of track that was rebuilt with track panels at some point, and the inner bolt holes and bolts are missing on those joints as well - even if they will never get around to welding that rail. Track panels come that way, so that they can be bolted OR welded (or, at a derailment, bolted and then welded later). People seldom bother to drill the inner holes in the field. Dan
I do believe they did crop the ends when doing the field welds.
Still, much of the rail in IAIS's case was laid in the late 60s/early 70s by the RI. When it was done, that rail probably had about 30 years of service.
There's lots of empty bolt holes in evidence on the St. Lawrence line for CSX.
Flash-butt welding in the field is still done by Holland, Loram, Plasser and others - but it's rare anymore to convert a whole district this way anymore. ($$$$)
Where you are more likely to see the flash-butt operation in play is on a railroad that either does not believe in boutet welding or is overwhelmed by rail failures. You frequently see 6-hole bars with only the outer 4 holes around a joint drilled, signalling a future flash but operation in the field to come later. The quality control in a rail welding plant is more reliable in most cases and de-stressing the rail is less of a concern.
Shortlines and Class-1's have different priorities and experience in dealing with welded rail. Have seen far too many failures to anchor the newly laid shortline rail cause grief shortly after a rail relay. (and using used-anchors is not saving anybody in the long run - better to buy new like the Class 1's.
Leo_Ames There's lots of empty bolt holes in evidence on the St. Lawrence line for CSX.
I noticed that several years ago, just north of Evans Mills.
I supposed that it was relay rail that was sent somewhere for welding into CWR, as opposed to being done on site.
Watched a mobile butt welder in use at Deshler not long ago when they were laying new CWR. Box van hi-rail with a slide out that clamped over the rail and welded the two together. It happened several times as they put in sections near the diamond.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Speaking of rails with bolt holes: how do they put those holes in the rail? They're obviously not drilled. When, in the rail-making process, does that happen, and how?
NKP guy Speaking of rails with bolt holes: how do they put those holes in the rail? They're obviously not drilled. When, in the rail-making process, does that happen, and how?
Umm, maybe try searching for 'rail drill'......? Crews can torch the holes in an emergency, but drills are the preferred method.
Umm, you mean they don't come out of the mill with holes, but they're drilled in place? News to me. But then, I've never wondered about it before.
(1) unless you're running in excepted track territory, torch cut holes are a bozo no-no and an FRA Code-1 defect.
(2) Rail starts as "blanks" (no bolt holes), then may be pre-drilled at the mill or cut in the field. Bolt hole and angle bar patterns differ between railroads and are not always interchangeable. [That "deal" on secondhand rail may be no bargain if the drill pattern is wrong and the OTM (especially angle-bars) can't be found and/or does not match your standard plan that applies to the rest of the railroad. Shortlines get themselves in trouble over this all the time. Gets really strange when it comes to step-joints/compromise joints (hard to find in the first place)
Most rail bolt holes are cut with a low-speed mechanical drill and a chisel cut bit cooled with water. Higher speed rotobrach drills are out there, but the costs of the bits is pricey. The older method works just fine for properly drilled and peened results.
Rail drilling technology | Geismar
Anytime a rail intended for use is jointed rail track is cut, the rail end with the cut needs to have bolt holes driller into it. I've had experience with rail drilling at SCRM (OERM) during a program to remove flame cut rail ends and flame cut bolt holes. In this case, the drill motor was a lawn mower sized gasolene engine with a very funky gear reduction scheme and the drill bits looked a bit like small metal stakes. We were using water from a hose the lubricant/coolant. Despite the overall fuky nature of the setip, it did a good job of drilling the bolt holes.
Note to MC: Paul Hammond was the person behind eliminating flame cut rail ends and flame cut bolt holes at SCRM/OERM. (I started my reply before you posted) I also appreciated the link to rail drills, the one I worked with at OERM circa 1990 is similar despite being a number of years old back then.
mudchicken: This isn't the first time I've learned something from your responses to my questions. Thank you. Not only did you answer my question, you explained the answer so it makes sense to me.
Torch cut anything is an invitation to a broken rail or a "dutchman" inside the limits of the anglebar (the ball of rail just lifts-out behid the angle bar and rattles around (broken) between the bars if left in place)
Eric: Paul has whole new set of weird-isms over here to deal with.
NKP guy mudchicken: This isn't the first time I've learned something from your responses to my questions. Thank you. Not only did you answer my question, you explained the answer so it makes sense to me.
Ditto for me, MC. I think I read about torch cutting being done in the long-ago hazy past, and the concept stayed lodged in my brain for some strange reason. It was the only other way I could think of to make holes in the rail out in the field.
An update: The work looks to be complete on the W&LE section bordering the park. First, they welded the west rail; now I notice the east rail has been given the same treatment. The 39' rails (with their holes) are lying next to the track, while new (and undrilled) 39' rails have been welded together. The clickety-clack is gone. No doubt, the old rails will be gone in a week or two. Large piles of new ties are awaiting installation at other points on W&LE subsidiary Akron Barberton Cluster (ABC) Railroad (former Erie RR track).
It's refreshing as well as interesting to see these railroads investing in upgrading their lines after so many years of deferred maintenance.
I remember discussions about 'flame cut' holes in riveted plate construction, including boiler construction, in which the necessary 'final step' was reaming to beyond the likely HAZ. Reaming is or used to be a much less difficult and energy-intensive procedure than full or holesaw drilling of an equivalent hole. But it does require more specialized and expensive tools.
With the advent of cheap industrial diamonds, it occurs to me that even with iron carbide formation, the use of a hole saw in circulating slurry containing fine diamond abrasive might be an attractive technology for rail drilling.
Some of this has been under investigation at Pueblo in a closed environment for over a decade. With the advent of MxV rail and two facilities in play, I'm not sure what's currently going -on and what the metallurgists are seeing.
Hey NKP Guy,
Can you get close enough to see when the new rail was rolled? Does it look new (with gray mill scale) or is it on the dirty/rusty side? Are the rail lengths a full 39' or are they shorter?
I am curious about whether actual newly rolled rail is being installed or if it's secondhand stuff. We had a lot of 31' (cropped from 33' rails), and 37' rails (cropped from 39') on the Chicago and North Western; old, old stuff that has probably been replaced by now.
You will now see a lot of 39' rail placed on industry tracks (or short lines) that is made by cutting CWR (salvaged from main line use) into 39' lengths, and drilling two holes on each end for joint bars (even for 6-hole bars). Although it seems a waste of CWR there are good reasons for the practice. First, 39' lengths can be transported by truck; all track material for industry tracks is delivered by truck, not rail. Also, most track contractors are small-time outfits that don't have a rail train to transport CWR (and none of today's large railroads would ever handle someone elses rail train besides!).
With the portable electric flash-butt welders available today making CWR in the field is not a bad way to go. The welds can be the same quality as a factory weld, and it avoids setting up a welding plant and tranporting the CWR. For a smaller relay project the costs probably are comparable.
Kurt Hayek
sandiego: I'll take a good look in the next few days and let you know. However, from appearances, the rail looks like new stuff based on what you wrote about its color.
sandiego: I put my face close to the rail and took a few photos. Here's what's on this newly-installed welded rail segment. Reading from left to right, it looks like it says, "1025 R E OH CARNEGIE USA 1989 llllllllll"
All the rail I could examine had the same lettering. I'll have to leave what it all means to someone here with the needed Rosetta Stone.
As to the length of each pre-welded rail, I have no way of measuring that, but it looks like 39', more or less.
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