Yes they forgot that little bit of programming. However given how interconnected cars are today with the internet they could have possibly fixed the issue with a single software update over the freaking internet. Heck my 2020 Chevy Trax and my 2019 Ford Fusion both recently upgraded their own infotainment systems and the Chevy upgraded the transmission shift programming all over the internet while we were using them both.
Shadow the Cats ownerKia and Hyundai thought their CARS were safe from theft for years also. Then someone figured out how to defeat the program. Then we had the summer of fun of stolen KIA and Hyundais all over the place. Given how common social media is sooner or later someone would figure it out post it and look out.
No they didn't. They were just too cheap to install immobilizers in them.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
We don't have a big enough electrical grid nor generation capacity to charge all of the EVs that the gooberment is forcing on us..how are we going to keep the electric trains running? And solar/wind are unreliable for electric generation-neither one is available 24 hrs.
Guess an aluminum extension ladder could be used to trip a breaker and stop a train.
The cat wires, are they pure Cu or a Cu alloy, or just Al?
NittanyLionBreaking into a car to steal it is trivial because the car doesn't kill you when you touch it.
EV's may be an exception to that. Breaking into the car, no problem. Trying to extract some of the battery wiring may be a different story...
There's a reason firefighters are being trained about the issues there (never mind the fires).
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
In a similar vein, there are police reports every so often of some miscreant who was killed breaking into a Com Ed junction box or substation to steal copper wire.
Breaking into a car to steal it is trivial because the car doesn't kill you when you touch it. There's no comparison. No one is stealing cat. It literally cannot happen because the process of stealing it is lethal. The only people who could steal it are the same people who could de-energize it and if you've got that sort of access, there's other things to steal that are more valuable.
MidlandMike Kia and Hyundai thought their CARS were safe from theft for years also. Then someone figured out how to defeat the program. Then we had the summer of fun of stolen KIA and Hyundais all over the place. Given how common social media is sooner or later someone would figure it out post it and look out. Shadow the Cats owner Just how are the railroads going to fight the theft of their overhead wiring in major cities. LA has lots of light rail, how much live wire has been stolen? NY and CHI have electrified rail, and I don't remember any "cat" burglary.
Kia and Hyundai thought their CARS were safe from theft for years also. Then someone figured out how to defeat the program. Then we had the summer of fun of stolen KIA and Hyundais all over the place. Given how common social media is sooner or later someone would figure it out post it and look out.
Shadow the Cats owner Just how are the railroads going to fight the theft of their overhead wiring in major cities.
LA has lots of light rail, how much live wire has been stolen? NY and CHI have electrified rail, and I don't remember any "cat" burglary.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
MidlandMike Shadow the Cats owner Just how are the railroads going to fight the theft of their overhead wiring in major cities.
Shadow the Cats ownerJust how are the railroads going to fight the theft of their overhead wiring in major cities.
You are forgetting the biggest issue in the USA also. We have a certain section of the population that if they see something standing around that is made of metal loves to take it and sell it for scrap metal prices. Just how are the railroads going to fight the theft of their overhead wiring in major cities. We all saw the footage of what they did to diesel powered trains in CA just imagine them being able to stop a train fully and loot to their hearts content.
blue streak 1Problem = Few locations with non compatible CAT. 1. PRR 25 Hz 12.0 Kv. Obviously this needs to be replaced with 60 Hz 12.5 Kv. No freight RR would want to buy heavier and much more expensive 25/60 Hz transformers for just a few necessary locos. Amtrak Hell Gate line to Gate and MNRR's conversion has alrady been completed. It will not be cheap but Amtrak will finally have to convert to 60 Hz probably with dedicated federal funds. It will not be easy as some signal system changes. Also all bypass inductors between tracks changed from 25 to 60 Hz. Some stations and maintenancee facilities still powerd by 25 Hz as well.
1. PRR 25 Hz 12.0 Kv. Obviously this needs to be replaced with 60 Hz 12.5 Kv. No freight RR would want to buy heavier and much more expensive 25/60 Hz transformers for just a few necessary locos. Amtrak Hell Gate line to Gate and MNRR's conversion has alrady been completed. It will not be cheap but Amtrak will finally have to convert to 60 Hz probably with dedicated federal funds. It will not be easy as some signal system changes. Also all bypass inductors between tracks changed from 25 to 60 Hz. Some stations and maintenancee facilities still powerd by 25 Hz as well.
What has changed, dramatically, is the switch in preference toward constant-tension catenary, something that is long, long overdue... but not particularly compatible with the existing Gibbs & Hill infrastructure. (In fact, the sections of the older New Haven electrification being converted on MNRR and the west end in Connecticut are actually seeing whole new towers constructed, between the existing ones, for the better system -- probably more trouble and expense than for a line without electrification in the first place.)
As I recall, the 12.5 was the highest practical voltage that could be used in the North River tunnels, and perhaps in the four tunnels east out of NYP to Sunnyside. That is probably as tight a clearance, especially to double-deck commuter cars, as anyone wants to see -- so any switch to higher-speed equipment using, say, 25kV is not going to happen before Gateway nears completion.
Many, many of the potential clearance issues involve full domestic doublestacks operating under 25 or 50kV new construction. The situation won't be as extreme as the Indian examples, because we can presume well cars instead of skeleton or deck flats would be used, but it is unlikely that a great many overhead obstructions won't be cost-effective either to raise or replace to the extent corona and contact safety would require.
In my opinion the answer to this isn't making the route safe for the required voltage end to end, and isn't providing multiple-power selectors in all the locomotives to allow something like 6600V to permit ridiculous close clearances. The 'thing' I advocate is to adopt hybrid locomotives or consists that can operate under wire and use battery power to cross any gaps or be able to start if they become stalled -- and then build the system so there is as much overhead wire per line as possible.
2. Metra electric and South Shore. This is needed for HSR to access CHICAGO unlimited.
3. Does any of the light rail around Dallas/Ft.Worth operate on some freight trackage? Clearance issues ==. With automatic multi tap transformers readily available lower clearance can make those areas 12.5 Kv.
Maybe 6.25 Kv? If not enough then a battery loco will be needed.
Believe that Virginia Avenue CSX twin tunnels are one location needed that.
Or any train could have a DPU farther away than length of clearance issue.
What is the most expensive of insttalling electrification? IMO it is the pot holling for the caissons that support the CAT poles. Look how long it took Amtrak for the New Haven - BOS extension.
Other locations it might be signal cable or in case of ex SP track Sprint telephone lines. Unmarked utility lines or misplaced markings.
Other than EHV extra high voltage power lines, all utility crossing should be underground of the ROW in casings. Remember when car hit power pole and dropped wires fell on Amtrak CAT.
BaltACD Engine changes require additional air brake testing equivalent to building the train from scratch.
...no?
Before electrification can be done for the US freight carriers can be done, a standard electrical configuration will have to be agreed to among all the participating carriers.
The carriers have become accustomed to run through power with diesels, they won't give up that utility and efficiency in going electric. Engine changes require additional air brake testing equivalent to building the train from scratch.
Electrification is going to certainly have some problems being implemented. First costs. Then clearances especially in the east.
Problem = Few locations with non compatible CAT.
1. PRR 25 Hz 12.0 Kv. Obviously this needs to be replaced with 60 Hz 12.5 Kv. No freight RR would want to buy heavier and much more expensive 25/60 Hz transformers for just a few necessary locos. Amtrak Hell Gate line to Gate and MNRR's conversion has alrady been completed.
It will not be cheap but Amtrak will finally have to convert to 60 Hz probably with dedicated federal funds. It will not be easy as some signal system changes. Also all bypass inductors between tracks changed from 25 to 60 Hz. Some stations and maintenancee facilities still powerd by 25 Hz as well. Most difficult will be first section needed at SSY, approachesto NYP. and NYP station.
2. Metra electric and South Shore. This is needed for HSR to access CHICAGO unlimited. As far as I know there has been no provisions to add 60 Hz to any of its rolling stock. Can they have 60 Hz added ? Unknown. As well the CAT would needed to be changed to whatever higher 60 Hz voltages desired. Do not know if the present SS rebuilds and new track has higher voltage CAT installed?
3. Does any of the light rail around Dallas / FtWorth operate on some freight trackage?
Clearance issues ==.
With automatic multi tap transformers readily available lower clearance can make those areas 12.5 Kv. Maybe 6.25 Kv? If not enough then a battry loco will be needed. However 6.25 sounds like better solution except for the larger feeders and CAT contact wire needed . Believe that Virginia Avenue CSX twin tunnels are one location needed that. Or any train could have a DPU farther away than length of clearance issue.
What is the most expensive of insttalling electrification? IMO it is the pot holling for the casions that support the CAT poles that holds the CAT wire. Look how long it took Amtrak for the New Haven - BOS extension. In that case it was mostly rock. Other locations it might be signal cable or in case of ex SP track Sprint telephone lines. Unmarked utility lines or misplaced markings. Other than EHV extra high voltage power lines all utility crossing should be underground of the ROW in casings. Remember when car hit power pole and dropped wires fell on Amtrak CAT.
Clearance issues.
Psychot SD60MAC9500 charlie hebdo Backshop charlie hebdo It's amazing how oppositional folks are on here to electrification of major trunk lines. It's really not such a big deal. Most other industrialized nations seem to have overcome the difficulties mentioned here. I suspect most here have never spent much time in areas that have such services. As to noise, definitely quieter. Most are government run, which means that money is less of a problem. Their runs are also much shorter than ours. LA-CHI is huge compared to anything in Europe. I suggest that the network of lines in Europe or Japan is very dense. Majority of lines in Germany and France, Italy, Benelux are electrified. The infreastructure is state owned; operators are privatized. We should do the same for efficiency We should do the same for efficiency? Both are lacking and specifically looking at Europe's freight rail is horrible compared to the US due to open access. If you're not familiar with European freight rail it would be wise to understand a few things about it. Barges and road dominate freight moves in Europe. The former being due to good water infrastructure. Road has been eroding rail's share of freight in Europe for years. One it's a very high cost system due to many short(trains are typically limited to 750M[2,460'])low axle load freight trains competing with dense passenger services and other freight operators on limited slot availbilty. A major obstacle that Europe will never if ever be able to overcome is lacking the ability to double-stack containers. Also the obsolete screw and link coupler still being used which severly restricts train tonnage due to the couplers severly low buff and draft rating.. There's no uniformtiy across Europe when it comes to voltage for OHL, axle loads, and even gauge varies. I always find it funny when people advocate for us to adopt Europes poor model for freight. When if it was so sucessful it would be adopted on a massive scale yet we aren't seeing that. If anything more countries are adopting and have adopted our style of railroading. Just to name a few; Russia, China, Australia, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, UAE, and India.. To the point of the post. I like electrificaton however we don't need it for freight. Clearance will be an issue for OHL just the scale alone that would be needed to rasie overpasses and undercut tunnels. We also don't have a dense passenger network that would get more of a benefit from OHL than freight. Both OHL and DEL have pros and cons. One isn't better than the other. They suit how a network is setup and operates. DEL's will serve us just fine going forward. It seems like you're going off on two different tangents here. Much of what you say about European railroading is correct, but it has nothing to do with electrification. You cite Russia and China as countries that are adopting our methods of railroading, but Russia and China, which both have enormous rail networks, are 50% and 70% electrified respectively.
SD60MAC9500 charlie hebdo Backshop charlie hebdo It's amazing how oppositional folks are on here to electrification of major trunk lines. It's really not such a big deal. Most other industrialized nations seem to have overcome the difficulties mentioned here. I suspect most here have never spent much time in areas that have such services. As to noise, definitely quieter. Most are government run, which means that money is less of a problem. Their runs are also much shorter than ours. LA-CHI is huge compared to anything in Europe. I suggest that the network of lines in Europe or Japan is very dense. Majority of lines in Germany and France, Italy, Benelux are electrified. The infreastructure is state owned; operators are privatized. We should do the same for efficiency We should do the same for efficiency? Both are lacking and specifically looking at Europe's freight rail is horrible compared to the US due to open access. If you're not familiar with European freight rail it would be wise to understand a few things about it. Barges and road dominate freight moves in Europe. The former being due to good water infrastructure. Road has been eroding rail's share of freight in Europe for years. One it's a very high cost system due to many short(trains are typically limited to 750M[2,460'])low axle load freight trains competing with dense passenger services and other freight operators on limited slot availbilty. A major obstacle that Europe will never if ever be able to overcome is lacking the ability to double-stack containers. Also the obsolete screw and link coupler still being used which severly restricts train tonnage due to the couplers severly low buff and draft rating.. There's no uniformtiy across Europe when it comes to voltage for OHL, axle loads, and even gauge varies. I always find it funny when people advocate for us to adopt Europes poor model for freight. When if it was so sucessful it would be adopted on a massive scale yet we aren't seeing that. If anything more countries are adopting and have adopted our style of railroading. Just to name a few; Russia, China, Australia, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, UAE, and India.. To the point of the post. I like electrificaton however we don't need it for freight. Clearance will be an issue for OHL just the scale alone that would be needed to rasie overpasses and undercut tunnels. We also don't have a dense passenger network that would get more of a benefit from OHL than freight. Both OHL and DEL have pros and cons. One isn't better than the other. They suit how a network is setup and operates. DEL's will serve us just fine going forward.
charlie hebdo Backshop charlie hebdo It's amazing how oppositional folks are on here to electrification of major trunk lines. It's really not such a big deal. Most other industrialized nations seem to have overcome the difficulties mentioned here. I suspect most here have never spent much time in areas that have such services. As to noise, definitely quieter. Most are government run, which means that money is less of a problem. Their runs are also much shorter than ours. LA-CHI is huge compared to anything in Europe. I suggest that the network of lines in Europe or Japan is very dense. Majority of lines in Germany and France, Italy, Benelux are electrified. The infreastructure is state owned; operators are privatized. We should do the same for efficiency
Backshop charlie hebdo It's amazing how oppositional folks are on here to electrification of major trunk lines. It's really not such a big deal. Most other industrialized nations seem to have overcome the difficulties mentioned here. I suspect most here have never spent much time in areas that have such services. As to noise, definitely quieter. Most are government run, which means that money is less of a problem. Their runs are also much shorter than ours. LA-CHI is huge compared to anything in Europe.
charlie hebdo It's amazing how oppositional folks are on here to electrification of major trunk lines. It's really not such a big deal. Most other industrialized nations seem to have overcome the difficulties mentioned here. I suspect most here have never spent much time in areas that have such services. As to noise, definitely quieter.
It's amazing how oppositional folks are on here to electrification of major trunk lines. It's really not such a big deal. Most other industrialized nations seem to have overcome the difficulties mentioned here. I suspect most here have never spent much time in areas that have such services. As to noise, definitely quieter.
Most are government run, which means that money is less of a problem. Their runs are also much shorter than ours. LA-CHI is huge compared to anything in Europe.
I suggest that the network of lines in Europe or Japan is very dense. Majority of lines in Germany and France, Italy, Benelux are electrified. The infreastructure is state owned; operators are privatized. We should do the same for efficiency
We should do the same for efficiency? Both are lacking and specifically looking at Europe's freight rail is horrible compared to the US due to open access. If you're not familiar with European freight rail it would be wise to understand a few things about it.
Barges and road dominate freight moves in Europe. The former being due to good water infrastructure. Road has been eroding rail's share of freight in Europe for years. One it's a very high cost system due to many short(trains are typically limited to 750M[2,460'])low axle load freight trains competing with dense passenger services and other freight operators on limited slot availbilty.
A major obstacle that Europe will never if ever be able to overcome is lacking the ability to double-stack containers. Also the obsolete screw and link coupler still being used which severly restricts train tonnage due to the couplers severly low buff and draft rating..
There's no uniformtiy across Europe when it comes to voltage for OHL, axle loads, and even gauge varies. I always find it funny when people advocate for us to adopt Europes poor model for freight. When if it was so sucessful it would be adopted on a massive scale yet we aren't seeing that. If anything more countries are adopting and have adopted our style of railroading. Just to name a few; Russia, China, Australia, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, UAE, and India..
To the point of the post. I like electrificaton however we don't need it for freight. Clearance will be an issue for OHL just the scale alone that would be needed to rasie overpasses and undercut tunnels. We also don't have a dense passenger network that would get more of a benefit from OHL than freight.
Both OHL and DEL have pros and cons. One isn't better than the other. They suit how a network is setup and operates. DEL's will serve us just fine going forward.
It seems like you're going off on two different tangents here. Much of what you say about European railroading is correct, but it has nothing to do with electrification. You cite Russia and China as countries that are adopting our methods of railroading, but Russia and China, which both have enormous rail networks, are 50% and 70% electrified respectively.
I mention electrification due to the iconsistency across Europe amongst other physical plant aspects noted in my previous comment. Of course method of motive power is not why the model is lacking. Even with China and Russia being mostly electrified they didn't adopt Europes operating model.
A major obstacle that Europe will never if ever be able to overcome is lacking the ability to double-stack containers. Also the obsolete screw and link coupler still being used which severly restricts train tonnage due to the couplers severly low buff and draft rating. There's no uniformity across Europe when it comes to voltage for OHL, axle loads, and even gauge varies.
I always find it funny when people advocate for us to adopt Europes poor model for freight. When if it was so sucessful it would be adopted on a massive scale yet we aren't seeing that. If anything more countries are adopting and have adopted our style of railroading. Just to name a few; Russia, China, Australia, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, UAE, and India..
charlie hebdo n012944 charlie hebdo The cash may be there but it does not appear to be maintaining the plant very well. The are maintaining the plant just fine. Do you have any first hand knowledge from your railroading experience to back up your statement? I observe: watch and listen. As the lyric says, "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." Do you think the only people allowed to comment on railroads on here are railroaders? Are you a railroad employee? If so, what qualifies you?
n012944 charlie hebdo The cash may be there but it does not appear to be maintaining the plant very well. The are maintaining the plant just fine. Do you have any first hand knowledge from your railroading experience to back up your statement?
charlie hebdo The cash may be there but it does not appear to be maintaining the plant very well.
The cash may be there but it does not appear to be maintaining the plant very well.
The are maintaining the plant just fine. Do you have any first hand knowledge from your railroading experience to back up your statement?
I observe: watch and listen.
As the lyric says, "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows."
Do you think the only people allowed to comment on railroads on here are railroaders? Are you a railroad employee? If so, what qualifies you?
So no, you don't. Got it.
Do I think only railroaders should comment? Of course not. Do I think that railroaders have a bit more knowledge of what is going on than someone who "observes" from afar? You bet.
What qualified me as a railroader to make the observation? 20 some years of experience. I know how much track time MOW or signals are asking for, and if they are getting it. I know how long temporary speed restrictions are put out before being repaired. I know how often crews report rough track, or have engine failures. I know how often track lights appear, or switches fail. If you were a railroader with knowledge, I would not have to explain that to you.
I know things that simply "watching and listening" from afar does not tell you. As seems to be your thing these days, you are letting your ideology get in the way of the facts.
An "expensive model collector"
It looks good for re-charging batteries quickly on streetcars or light rail and battery buses but I can't see it as very practical for rail applications. It seems like a rather expensive way of eliminating overhead wires.
Alstrom did this in Brazilhttps://www.alstom.com/solutions/infrastructure/srs-innovative-safe-and-automatic-charging-trams-and-electric-buses
"Smart third rail" is a variant of the GE stud-contact system described in Burch's "Electric Traction for Railway Trains" (1911). The basic idea (now) is to provide insulated sections of DC supply, with a smooth overall contact face, and return the usual way to the running rails, so that only when the locomotive pickup completely covers a given segment is heavy current supplied to it. The pickup bridges several sections, so that a very large contact area exists at any one time but there is no 'make' or 'break' with arcing as the shoe encounters and leaves a new segment.
Manufacturers claim that it is relatively easy to make modular sections including the switching electronics, so most of the implementation is laying the third rail and connecting it to periodic DC supply (probably rectified from 60Hz grid power in the United States, but in intermittent OHLE from the catenary traction supply.
MJ4562 Why would catenary (Sp?) be needed? Couldn't the power lines be run between the rails and have the pickup points be located under the locomotive? Seems like it would solve a lot of problems with clearance and structure maintenance. Would just need government support protecting railroads against trespasser lawsuits which is a very reasonable tradeoff.
Why would catenary (Sp?) be needed? Couldn't the power lines be run between the rails and have the pickup points be located under the locomotive? Seems like it would solve a lot of problems with clearance and structure maintenance. Would just need government support protecting railroads against trespasser lawsuits which is a very reasonable tradeoff.
Erik_Mag The definition of LCOE used in the link you gave did not seem to include the cost of energy storage, increased transmission capacity or back up generation needed for a high penetration of renewable energy on the grid. As such it doesn't give a realistic cost comparison. If the cost of wind and solar really was cheaper, then why are we still subsidizing new construction? For a thorough discussion of the issues of renewable energy I would recommend the series of articles written by Russell Schussler (AKA "Planning Engineer") that have appeared on Judith Curry's Climate Etc. website. Russell was the planning engineer for a large electric power cooperative, so he wasn't driven by maximizing profits.
The definition of LCOE used in the link you gave did not seem to include the cost of energy storage, increased transmission capacity or back up generation needed for a high penetration of renewable energy on the grid. As such it doesn't give a realistic cost comparison. If the cost of wind and solar really was cheaper, then why are we still subsidizing new construction?
For a thorough discussion of the issues of renewable energy I would recommend the series of articles written by Russell Schussler (AKA "Planning Engineer") that have appeared on Judith Curry's Climate Etc. website. Russell was the planning engineer for a large electric power cooperative, so he wasn't driven by maximizing profits.
Excellent. Thanks. I will check them out.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
charlie hebdoThe cash may be there but it does not appear to be maintaining the plant very well.
I completely disagree. There is no data that suggests deferred maintenance.
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