A hot-axle detector might have seen nothing related to an impending axle failure. A WILD would only have detected whether there was undue vibration, as from a flat wheel, and axle failure again might not have provided a critical level of 'signal' prior to letting go.
I'd expect focus on 'blame' to be more on the chain of periodic car inspections conducted during interchange, not on the car's owner or nominal insurer.
MP173 If the car which caused the derailment was a private fleet car and there was an issue with the bearing or axle which led to the derailment...which appears to be the case, how would that affect the liability for cleanup, damages, etc?This is going to be a big ticket ($$$) event. Ed
If the car which caused the derailment was a private fleet car and there was an issue with the bearing or axle which led to the derailment...which appears to be the case, how would that affect the liability for cleanup, damages, etc?This is going to be a big ticket ($$$) event.
Ed
Lax inspections of rolling stock. I suppose there will be a lot of buck passing as to responsibility. But communities and higher levels are going to demand better safety or shut them down. PSR and vulture capitalism are the ultimate villains.
blue streak 1 Amtrak 29 and 30 stopped in Pittsburg and Toledo respectively and returned to WASH and CHI. No 29 & 30 today/
Amtrak 29 and 30 stopped in Pittsburg and Toledo respectively and returned to WASH and CHI. No 29 & 30 today/
According to reports elsewhere the crew had a detector warning just seconds before the disaster. There is a detector at E. Palestine, OH MP49, the previous detector is at MP69 Sebring, OH. and the next one would have been at MP30 Beaver Falls, PA.
mudchicken... Would assume that on a high tonnage line like that, there would be an HBD every 20 miles or so.
Would assume that on a high tonnage line like that, there would be an HBD every 20 miles or so.
I believe FRA regulations require a train to pass a Hot Axle detector every 50 miles or more frequently. When that regulation was placed in effect, CSX nominally had their detectors spaced ever 25 miles or thereabouts. Since Detectors are electronic equipment and subject to failure and need to be taken out of service from time to time - CSX began respacing the detectors to a approximate 15 mile spacing - with this spacing adjoining detectors could be out of service and the train could continue to move in accordance with the regulations, otherwise the train would have to Stop and have the crew do a walking inspection.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
A conversation (NS radio communication) between a dispatcher on another territory and an unknown person indicated that the previous HBD showed an axle "trending" hot, but not enough to trigger an alarm.
Unsure what the proceedure is when a "trending hot" is detected. My guess is that protocal will change.
The NS continues to run their hot intermodal trains out of Chicago for Croxton and Harrisburg, but the trains are now all single stack...no double stacks the last few days. These trains are running in both directions.
Given these are single stacks, it either suggests a routing which does not support double stack clearance or provides the flexibility to re-route these trains on alternative routes.
Does anyone know how these trains are routed?
The Croxton could obviously go CSX at Berea, or perhaps the ex NKP line to Buffalo then the ex EL line to Binghamton. Harrisburg could also go that route to Binghamton then down to Harrisburg.
What a mess.
ed
After the doorbell camera video, the focus will be on where the hot box detector (nearest the derailment) was and what did it record.
(we were always taught that roller bearings could fail in a very short period of time)
TikTok video from a Doorbell camera showing sparks flying from a roller bearing journal just before the derailment.
Ring Doorbell camera video
Fairly decent report and video. Also scroll down for some still pictures.
East Palestine, Ohio train derailment leads to fire; Ohio Governor Mike DeWine visits scene (wkbn.com)
Have wondered how wide and deep soil, subgrade, and ballast will need removal. There will be definitely some dirty dirt to be removed and replaced with clean soils.
Local Media here in the Columbus area is now (20:30 EST, Monday) stating that the controlled release was "successful". Someone with experience in this field may be able to give a more accurate description of the process, but my understanding is that the vinyl chloride was to be drained into ditching to burn off over a couple of days.
There are reports that someone is going to breech the cars with a small hole probably to prevent a BLEV ? A shaped charge? HOW ? Robot may not be fesible ?
Harrison The three or four remaining pressurized vinyl chloride tankers exploded minutes ago.
The three or four remaining pressurized vinyl chloride tankers exploded minutes ago.
This was false news. A "controlled detonation" took place around 1600 today. Quite spectacular, launching smoke/chemicals high above the wreck.
Harrison
Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.
Modeling the D&H in 1978.
Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"
My YouTube
NS better get ready for the microscope exams of all their current operational practices including how many people have been laid-off in their car repair department. If this comes back as something that a properly inspected train would have prevented look out.
Based on some drone imagery on-line, it rather looks like one of the cars "dug in," thus coming to a sudden stop and stacking the rest of the cars up behind it. Just my guess, but a broken axle could certainly cause that.
Much was made in the beginning of the proximity of a fuel dealer, but from what I've seen from the drone images the derailment never directly impacted their bulk tanks. Radiant heat may have been a problem.
The delayed explosions certainly explain the decision to pull firefighting forces back early in the incident.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
mudchickenWhat? Pinning cause of derailment on mechanical failure (broken axle?) .... Ya mean the operating department is not blaming the track department before they even get there on-site this time?
Operations doesn't care if MofW or Mechanical get the blame so long as Man Failure or Train Handling isn't the blame. Each segment protects its own interests.
What? Pinning cause of derailment on mechanical failure (broken axle?) .... Ya mean the operating department is not blaming the track department before they even get there on-site this time?
Thanks Harrison for reroute update. I was curious how NS was handling that.
NS is still running (here in NW Indiana) certain intermodal trains. 22X (Chicago - Croxton) just cleared Chesterton (530am CST).
This will be quite a clean up and the ability to run trains on that line will be a challenge.
Any idea of Amtrak 29/30?Ed
someone interviewed mentioned cars were DOT-111 . Thoses are not the latest in safety. Lots of capability to have a BLEV explosion.
Reroutes are currently running on the CSX Chicago Line, NS/NYSW Southern Tier, and other NS routes to the south.
Same site as the March, 1973 derailment of the Broadway killing a deadhead engineer:
https://www.nytimes.com/1973/03/19/archives/ohio-amtrak-wreck-kills-one-hurts-19.html
Regards, Ed
I remember MC making several comments about the need for reinforcement/protection for bridge columns adjacent to tracks. I wonder if the same might be worth applying to Hazmat storage adjacent to tracks?
Madison = E. St. Louis (TRRA) on the other end (Major hump yard)
duplicate post
According to WGAL News the train was eastbound from Madison Ilanois to Conway Pennsylvania which is near Pittsburgh.
tree68 caldreamer Here is a link to the google maps aerieal view of East Palestine. The tracks bisect the town and are fairly straight though they do curve a little. You can go left and right and follow the tracks through town. The tracks are between north clark St and north Taggard streets https://www.google.com/maps/place/East+Palestine,+OH+44413/@40.8349483,-80.5397098,533m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x883409618e56c34b:0xdc2150c87ea7ab86!8m2!3d40.8339509!4d-80.5403469!16zL20vMHl0X2w If you follow the line to the east (right) a bit, you'll see the oil company (Leake) next to the slight curve in the tracks. The siding starts right about there on track 2. Given that most railroads do right hand running (clearly lots of variables, but generally speaking), the switch wouldn't be a problem for a westbound, and would be trailing for an eastbound.
caldreamer Here is a link to the google maps aerieal view of East Palestine. The tracks bisect the town and are fairly straight though they do curve a little. You can go left and right and follow the tracks through town. The tracks are between north clark St and north Taggard streets https://www.google.com/maps/place/East+Palestine,+OH+44413/@40.8349483,-80.5397098,533m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x883409618e56c34b:0xdc2150c87ea7ab86!8m2!3d40.8339509!4d-80.5403469!16zL20vMHl0X2w
Here is a link to the google maps aerieal view of East Palestine. The tracks bisect the town and are fairly straight though they do curve a little. You can go left and right and follow the tracks through town. The tracks are between north clark St and north Taggard streets
https://www.google.com/maps/place/East+Palestine,+OH+44413/@40.8349483,-80.5397098,533m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x883409618e56c34b:0xdc2150c87ea7ab86!8m2!3d40.8339509!4d-80.5403469!16zL20vMHl0X2w
If you follow the line to the east (right) a bit, you'll see the oil company (Leake) next to the slight curve in the tracks. The siding starts right about there on track 2.
Given that most railroads do right hand running (clearly lots of variables, but generally speaking), the switch wouldn't be a problem for a westbound, and would be trailing for an eastbound.
Most multiple track line segments were originally laid out and signaled when Current of Traffic signaling was the industry standard. Tracks were signaled in one direction and operation in the reverse of that direction was done under the authority of Train Orders. Industries and other spur tracks were installed based on the normal signaled direction of traffic on these tracks.
With the current standard being CTC effective on all tracks in both directions - many 'newbies' can't comprehend the potentials to 'codlock' their railroad when operating trains on other than the Current of Traffic directions as the spurs on those tracks will not facilitate the set out of bad orders on a train.
Here's East Palestine's FB page:
https://www.facebook.com/EPInformation
Looking at aerial/satellite photos, they certainly scattered some cars around. The bulk tanks at the oil company are a fair distance off the tracks, although there are several large semi tankers on the property in the images.
Note - the incident does not appear on the usual satellite images, in case anyone thought they were.
There is a switch for a siding adjacent to Ceramfab, which is right next to the tracks. Otherwise, it appears that it's pretty much straight track. Depending on how the cars piled up, they may have hit that building.
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