CSSHEGEWISCH I assume that some on this thread have a problem with the Eighth Amendment: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
I assume that some on this thread have a problem with the Eighth Amendment: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
The amount of bail should vary with the severity of the crime. Arrestees accused of serious violence shouldn't be released with little or no bail required.
charlie hebdoSounds like you would approve of the level of security "enjoyed" in the PRC or the former DDR.
This is not a political sort of crime, and I think no one can argue that it has a deleterious effect without redeeming social purpose. I'm certainly in favor of social programs to 'rehabilitate' individuals who engage in this particular crime, but preventing recidivism by nonviolent means ought to be a priority, at least in the short run.
Note that I don't agree at all with the use of deadly force in this situation. In fact I'd disagree with the use of the threat of deadly force in on-site apprehension. Those seem to be particular hallmarks of the PRC approach, and of the DDR border policing if not of Vopos directly.
I see a difference between 'following up' people who have been arrested, for example by providing ankle-bracelet trackers, and the Vopo techniques of keeping dossiers on large numbers of citizens who 'might be tempted to commit crimes' (for example, trolling their garbage for items to prompt canine patrols).
I'm highly in favor of presumption of innocence, but being caught (or filmed) with hands on the second level doors of a stack train, well onto railroad property, is difficult to construe as 'innocence'.
Overmod In my opinion, much of the problem is the de-emphasis of 'crimes of property' in the current justice system. This might be epitomized by something one of my sister's professors said in the late 1970s regarding the person who tried hedge-trimming with his mower and cut off a couple of fingers. His stance was that the person should be entitled to large money damages 'because he was a person suffering, and the company that made the mower was large, capable of paying, and probably insured anyway'. (This is the same logic about high diesel prices: anybody needing to use diesel "for work" can just pass it along in fuel surcharges so it's OK) You will note that the 700 prosecutions mostly involve 'fences' and other people doing something with the stolen goods. This is like all those folks who want to solve the 'illegal immigrant' problem with draconian penalties on anyone who employs them. I guess the idea is that if there is no place for the thieves to peddle what they keep after ransacking Conrail Boyz-style, the "vandalism" will just peter out. A bit more disturbing to me is the idea that 'criminal trespass' no longer seems to be grounds for prosecution. That is not a particularly difficult thing to determine or to prove, especially if cameras or drone footage is involved. If banks can get away with using dye markers to flag for currency theft, why not markers in container dunnage, or fluorescent material on container tamperproof seals? In a society where non-payment of assessed child support is statutory grounds for suspension of driving privileges, it seems logical to associate 'marked' individuals with intent to commit criminal trespass... being already guilty of trespass by being far enough on railroad property to access container ends...
In my opinion, much of the problem is the de-emphasis of 'crimes of property' in the current justice system. This might be epitomized by something one of my sister's professors said in the late 1970s regarding the person who tried hedge-trimming with his mower and cut off a couple of fingers. His stance was that the person should be entitled to large money damages 'because he was a person suffering, and the company that made the mower was large, capable of paying, and probably insured anyway'. (This is the same logic about high diesel prices: anybody needing to use diesel "for work" can just pass it along in fuel surcharges so it's OK)
You will note that the 700 prosecutions mostly involve 'fences' and other people doing something with the stolen goods. This is like all those folks who want to solve the 'illegal immigrant' problem with draconian penalties on anyone who employs them. I guess the idea is that if there is no place for the thieves to peddle what they keep after ransacking Conrail Boyz-style, the "vandalism" will just peter out.
A bit more disturbing to me is the idea that 'criminal trespass' no longer seems to be grounds for prosecution. That is not a particularly difficult thing to determine or to prove, especially if cameras or drone footage is involved. If banks can get away with using dye markers to flag for currency theft, why not markers in container dunnage, or fluorescent material on container tamperproof seals?
In a society where non-payment of assessed child support is statutory grounds for suspension of driving privileges, it seems logical to associate 'marked' individuals with intent to commit criminal trespass... being already guilty of trespass by being far enough on railroad property to access container ends...
Sounds like you would approve of the level of security "enjoyed" in the PRC or the former DDR.
Seems that a lot of people have a problem with the Fifth Amendment, too: "No person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law
A significant part of the problem these days, IMHO, is that the surety of punishment is not there.
This begins long before the perps start committing crimes against the populace. It starts when mom & dad's little darling can do no wrong.
Those of us of an age knew that if we misbehaved, there was likely a switch, or a belt, destined for contact with our hind end in our not-to-distant future. After a couple of actual applications, we usually learned. It was not the actual punishment that kept us straight. It was knowing that said punishment would be forthcoming if we acted up.
Today's petty criminals know that they'll be on the street in hours. Some have been known to be arrested multiple times in the same day or two.
Regardless of your feelings on corporal punishment, there needs to be some penalty for misbehaving, and it needs to leave a lasting impression.
A regular critic of today's methods of childrearing, John Rosemond suggests cleaning a misbehaving kid's room of everything but bed and clothes, and limiting electronics to the absolute minimum (ie, schoolwork). Good behavior over time starts restoring priviledges.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
So conviction of a crime - any crime - is the rest of the criminals life out of contact with 'the good people'. Better make prisons and their operation equal to the Defense Dept. budget.
What is this 'innocent until PROVEN beyond a reasonable doubt' that is written in the Constitution. Everything I am hearing hear is 'Guilty until proven Innocent beyond ANY doubt'. The Constitution still sets everything in motion - not the tweets of the Emperor.
Not all crimes warrant Life in Prison or the Death Penalty. Do we want the incarcereated to become productive citizens or do we want criminals to get their post High School graduate education in being more criminal in the future.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Despite the fact that some people refuse to accept reality, there are some people who need to be locked up so that decent people can go about their lives without being crime victims. There are people in the world who are bad people, like it or not. I have occasion to read the criminal records of some convicted felons; locking up some of them had to decrease the crime rate in their home county by an appreciable percentage.
BaltACDIncluding the one Dershowwitz supported in Impeachment. In many cases they are guilty of breathing while black.
If that's the way you think about it I won't try and change your mind. But I will say this.
There are still plenty of countries in this world where if you break the law, you disappear. Permanently.
Also, the current prison population in the US is two million. Sounds shocking until you remember the population of the US is 332 million. That means the percentage of the population in prison is 0.6% of the total. Not so shocking when you know the numbers.
Flintlock76 BaltACD The USA has a higher proportion of its population behind bars than any other country in the World. Of course, because they're guilty. Take it from Alan Dershowitz, one of the most distinguished legal minds in the country and no hard-core right-winger: " Let me let you in on a little secret. 98% of the people sitting in the defendant's chair are guilty of what they're accused of."
BaltACD The USA has a higher proportion of its population behind bars than any other country in the World.
Of course, because they're guilty.
Take it from Alan Dershowitz, one of the most distinguished legal minds in the country and no hard-core right-winger:
" Let me let you in on a little secret. 98% of the people sitting in the defendant's chair are guilty of what they're accused of."
Including the one Dershowwitz supported in Impeachment.
In many cases they are guilty of breathing while black.
BaltACDThe USA has a higher proportion of its population behind bars than any other country in the World.
Convicted One rrnut282 No suprise petty theivery increased. Have you been following the "bail reform" just over the state line in Illinois? Shocking!
rrnut282 No suprise petty theivery increased.
Have you been following the "bail reform" just over the state line in Illinois? Shocking!
The Prison Industrial Complex. Lock everybody up for anything - FOR LIFE.
The USA has a higher proportion of its population behind bars than any other country in the World.
rrnut282No suprise petty theivery increased.
So petty theivery is now OK? No suprise petty theivery increased.
samfp1943 Possibly, the 'new' facility out at Barstow area will allow the train speed to increase through the area of high theft, that should be alot harder to steal from a faster moving train?
Possibly, the 'new' facility out at Barstow area will allow the train speed to increase through the area of high theft, that should be alot harder to steal from a faster moving train?
Except for the fact that this is UP and the Barstow facility will be BNSF.
CMStPnP https://www.yahoo.com/news/fencing-rings-netted-18-million-045029067.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fencing-rings-netted-18-million-045029067.html
The big Headline noted, "...700 Arested...." And from the article: "...In a letter to L.A. County Dist. Atty. George Gascón in December, Union Pacific reported that thefts targeting its trains in Los Angeles County had increased by 160% over the year before, with a particularly sharp surge in the lead-up to the peak holiday season. The railroad company has argued that the theft problem was made worse by Gascón’s approach to prosecuting criminal offenders..." [which was followed by the further statements]
"...“Charges are reduced to a misdemeanor or petty offense, and the criminal is released after paying a nominal fine,” Adrian Guerrero, a director of public affairs for Union Pacific, said in the letter.
In response, [LA. D.A.] Gascón chastised Union Pacific for having poor security and said that his office was filing charges against the suspects..."
Probably, many here have read in other media, of the "problems of retail thefts, and other types of thefts against commercial commerce. In many other areas of the country. [ie: Target Corp. reported some $400 Million+, in theft from their outlets, in the first half of 2022(?).
In the same article, posted by the O.P.; mentions a local California Company is increasing surveilance in the area of 'high theft' from the railroad(?). Possibly, the 'new' facility out at Barstow area will allow the train speed to increase through the area of high theft, that should be alot harder to steal from a faster moving train?
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