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700 People arrested in LAPD sweep of Union Pacific Train thefts.....

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Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, December 3, 2022 1:55 PM

This likely won't be popular, but I also believe that situational criteria deserve to be part of the equation.

If you have a perp who has been gainfully employed 10+ years, paid his bills, paid his taxes, and got himself caught in an"everybody else is doing it" moment of stupidity....I believe such a person does deserve lieniency that a "8 prior convictions over 15 years, never filed income tax return" sort of person DOES NOT DESERVE.

I have much less reservation filling the prisons up with the latter, yet I am sure some would insist that I am extending privilige in showing leniency to the former.

Gotta draw a line somewhere, and for me recidivism is that marker.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, December 3, 2022 3:50 PM

Convicted One
This likely won't be popular, but I also believe that situational criteria deserve to be part of the equation.

If you have a perp who has been gainfully employed 10+ years, paid his bills, paid his taxes, and got himself caught in an"everybody else is doing it" moment of stupidity....I believe such a person does deserve lieniency that a "8 prior convictions over 15 years, never filed income tax return" sort of person DOES NOT DESERVE.

I have much less reservation filling the prisons up with the latter, yet I am sure some would insist that I am extending privilige in showing leniency to the former.

Gotta draw a line somewhere, and for me recidivism is that marker. 

I'll take it one step further.  The 'White Collar' criminal deserves more 'hard time' than the Blue Collar theif.  A Theif is a Theif, however the white collar criminal has also breached the trust that was placed in them to reach the position where they could perform their criminal activities.  In general the white collar theif steals more than a blue collar theif can even dream about, let alone get into a position to steal that amount.

Recidivism is that marker for the common blue collar criminal.  First offense is that marker for the white collar criminal as they had to implement an entire thought and trust plan to put them in their position to commit the crime - they are 10 time the criminal as a first time blue collar criminal.

 

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Saturday, December 3, 2022 4:27 PM

Let me point out that "enlist or else" enlistment is against regulations. "Without a waiver, Army Regulation 610-210 — which covers Army recruiting guidelines — states that an applicant is not eligible for enlistment if, “as a condition for any civil conviction or adverse disposition or any other reason through a civil or criminal court, [they are] ordered or subjected to a sentence that implies or imposes enlistment into the Armed Forces of the United States.” Anyone who knowingly enlists such an individual is subject to disciplinary proceedings and the individual will be summarily discharged

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, December 3, 2022 7:21 PM

BEAUSABRE
Let me point out that "enlist or else" enlistment is against regulations.

I would suspect that any such situation would lack any sort of official documentation.  The judge would probably say as a sort of an aside, "enlist and we won't pursue this any further."  

Said another way, "get the heck out of my town..."

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, December 3, 2022 7:55 PM

tree68
 
BEAUSABRE
Let me point out that "enlist or else" enlistment is against regulations. 

I would suspect that any such situation would lack any sort of official documentation.  The judge would probably say as a sort of an aside, "enlist and we won't pursue this any further."  

Said another way, "get the heck out of my town..."

And therein we have the judiciary just as corrupt and criminal as the criminals.

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, December 3, 2022 8:11 PM

BaltACD
And therein we have the judiciary just as corrupt and criminal as the criminals.

I think it was mostly a small town thing - "let's keep this between us..."

One might also consider it a chance for an individual who made a bad choice to redeem himself.  Instead of sitting in the county lockup for a year, they enlist, learn a trade, and do well by themselves.  It also separates them from whatever bad influences they may have faced.  

In other words, it could be a good thing.  And that judge may well have been your neighbor and longtime friend.  He just doesn't want Johnny to live his life with a record.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Sunday, December 4, 2022 9:58 AM

One problem with "enlist or else" is that learning a trade is not necessarily guaranteed.  How many of these cases wind up as front line infantrymen with no real skills for the job market after discharge?

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, December 4, 2022 11:15 AM

tree68
I would suspect that any such situation would lack any sort of official documentation.  The judge would probably say as a sort of an aside, "enlist and we won't pursue this any further."  

Said another way, "get the heck out of my town..."

"... and get the discipline you evidently haven't gotten from any of us..."

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Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, December 4, 2022 12:02 PM

When I retired a few years ago and went on social security, I was completely blindsided by the "credits" aspect necessary to qualify.   OH, I had ample credits, being the life-long industrious servant I had always been...I was just shocked in an "why am I just now being made aware of this requirement?" sort of way, because the threshold was not a low one.

Which forces me to wonder, these career criminals who boast about having never filed an income tax return.....what do they do for retirement? Perhaps prison is their best option?

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Posted by Backshop on Sunday, December 4, 2022 2:46 PM

For Social Security, you need 40 credits.  Each can be earned with one quarter of work where you made at least app. $1500.  If people paid as much attention to their finances, retirement plan, etc., as they do to sports and cars and toys, they'd be in much better shape. It's just like some people assume that someone else figured out that if you fully fund your IRA, you'll have enough money in retirement, along with SS.  That's not necessarily true.  It's an arbitrary amount, not how much you'll need.

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, December 4, 2022 3:00 PM

I've also seen the other extreme.  People save up, invest, deny themsleves from splurging on a nice car or whatever, then die before they hit 60.  I don't think that's much better. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, December 4, 2022 4:20 PM

Backshop
For Social Security, you need 40 credits.  Each can be earned with one quarter of work where you made at least app. $1500.  If people paid as much attention to their finances, retirement plan, etc., as they do to sports and cars and toys, they'd be in much better shape

I just thought it was odd, considering I had taken all the health and safety and civics classes my public school education required,  getting a college degree as a business major, including multiple semesters of accounting, and being fully familiar with the concepts of "employer's contribution" and even how that relates to self employment tax...I thought I was pretty well informed.

Just wondered how I managed to thread the needle all those years and never hear about the credits requirement.  (it's not like I had spent a lifetime shrugging off details)  Had I not already fullfilled the requirement, I would have been greatly annoyed over the discovery.

I would have thought that somewhere over the course of all those years there would have been someone shaking a finger at me, saying "you better beware" etc  Devil

If I live long enough to get back what I paid in (yes, I'm keeping score), I will consider mine a life well lived.  Pirate

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, December 4, 2022 5:54 PM

Convicted One
 
Backshop
For Social Security, you need 40 credits.  Each can be earned with one quarter of work where you made at least app. $1500.  If people paid as much attention to their finances, retirement plan, etc., as they do to sports and cars and toys, they'd be in much better shape 

I just thought it was odd, considering I had taken all the health and safety and civics classes my public school education required,  getting a college degree as a business major, including multiple semesters of accounting, and being fully familiar with the concepts of "employer's contribution" and even how that relates to self employment tax...I thought I was pretty well informed.

Just wondered how I managed to thread the needle all those years and never hear about the credits requirement.  (it's not like I had spent a lifetime shrugging off details)  Had I not already fullfilled the requirement, I would have been greatly annoyed over the discovery.

I would have thought that somewhere over the course of all those years there would have been someone shaking a finger at me, saying "you better beware" etc  Devil

If I live long enough to get back what I paid in (yes, I'm keeping score), I will consider mine a life well lived.  Pirate

Through high school in two different schools and college in three different schools I do not recall any course or for that matter any class's one day lesson plan that covered Retirement and/or how Social Security enters into it.  I look at it as a failing in the educational system.

 

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, December 4, 2022 11:10 PM

The problem with Social Security is that some people see it as a retirement system, when it was only intended to be a safety net.  

I would not be able to live on what I get from SS.

And most young people can't see far enough ahead to understand that they need to save for their retirement.  That's not a new problem.  

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, December 5, 2022 9:57 AM

zugmann

I've also seen the other extreme.  People save up, invest, deny themsleves from splurging on a nice car or whatever, then die before they hit 60.  I don't think that's much better. 

 

Everything in moderation...

I knew a few people who saved, saved, saved and couldn't bring themselves to ever spend it when the time came.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, December 5, 2022 10:16 AM

tree68

The problem with Social Security is that some people see it as a retirement system, when it was only intended to be a safety net.  

I would not be able to live on what I get from SS.

And most young people can't see far enough ahead to understand that they need to save for their retirement.  That's not a new problem.  

 
SSA has long tried, and is still trying, to make that point with the concept of the three-legged stool of retirement benefits from SSA, pension from employer and personal savings.  Note that the second leg barely exists anymore thanks to leveraged buyouts and other financial tricks thanks to Michael Milkin and various and sundry takeover artists.  A 401(k) was never meant to be a retirement plan and a lot of people will be in for a rude awakening.
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Posted by Convicted One on Monday, December 5, 2022 1:06 PM

tree68
I would not be able to live on what I get from SS.

Oddly enough, I manage to bank $500+/month after my basic living expenses, just from SS, but I have zero debt, and spent a majority of my career in a high cost of living state, and then moved to a low cost of living state for retirement (another little nugget that I'm surprised is not getting it's deserved emphasis in the how2retire guidelines.)

 

Back on topic, I really suspect that cost of incarceration is a significant factor  in the relaxing of prosecution strategies.  There seems to be a cover story claiming a human rights, or  empathy for society's "most vulnerable" motive...but I suspect the truth is more along the lines that as budgets get tight, "progressive" minds start to think about the other uses they have for the money, besides warehousing n'ere do wells. 

 There has been a stink here where the state has been forcing county jails to accomodate state prisoners sentenced to lessthan 2 years...locally...rather than sending the convict to a state pen.

And, the local governments are losing the cooperative spirit over funding disputes.

I guess it's one thing for a politician to campaign on a "law and order" platform...but eventually even those buzzards come home to roost?

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, December 5, 2022 1:47 PM

Convicted One
There has been a stink here where the state has been forcing county jails to accomodate state prisoners sentenced to lessthan 2 years...locally...rather than sending the convict to a state pen.

That hasn't come up in NY yet - but they are closing state correctional facilities left and right.

And recidivism (even the same day as they are arrested) is skyrocketing with the "bail reform" NY enacted.  There is literally no fear of prosecution, much less incarceration.

LarryWhistling
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Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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