Convicted OneThere has been a stink here where the state has been forcing county jails to accomodate state prisoners sentenced to lessthan 2 years...locally...rather than sending the convict to a state pen.
That hasn't come up in NY yet - but they are closing state correctional facilities left and right.
And recidivism (even the same day as they are arrested) is skyrocketing with the "bail reform" NY enacted. There is literally no fear of prosecution, much less incarceration.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68I would not be able to live on what I get from SS.
Oddly enough, I manage to bank $500+/month after my basic living expenses, just from SS, but I have zero debt, and spent a majority of my career in a high cost of living state, and then moved to a low cost of living state for retirement (another little nugget that I'm surprised is not getting it's deserved emphasis in the how2retire guidelines.)
Back on topic, I really suspect that cost of incarceration is a significant factor in the relaxing of prosecution strategies. There seems to be a cover story claiming a human rights, or empathy for society's "most vulnerable" motive...but I suspect the truth is more along the lines that as budgets get tight, "progressive" minds start to think about the other uses they have for the money, besides warehousing n'ere do wells.
There has been a stink here where the state has been forcing county jails to accomodate state prisoners sentenced to lessthan 2 years...locally...rather than sending the convict to a state pen.
And, the local governments are losing the cooperative spirit over funding disputes.
I guess it's one thing for a politician to campaign on a "law and order" platform...but eventually even those buzzards come home to roost?
tree68 The problem with Social Security is that some people see it as a retirement system, when it was only intended to be a safety net. I would not be able to live on what I get from SS. And most young people can't see far enough ahead to understand that they need to save for their retirement. That's not a new problem.
The problem with Social Security is that some people see it as a retirement system, when it was only intended to be a safety net.
I would not be able to live on what I get from SS.
And most young people can't see far enough ahead to understand that they need to save for their retirement. That's not a new problem.
zugmann I've also seen the other extreme. People save up, invest, deny themsleves from splurging on a nice car or whatever, then die before they hit 60. I don't think that's much better.
I've also seen the other extreme. People save up, invest, deny themsleves from splurging on a nice car or whatever, then die before they hit 60. I don't think that's much better.
I knew a few people who saved, saved, saved and couldn't bring themselves to ever spend it when the time came.
Convicted One Backshop For Social Security, you need 40 credits. Each can be earned with one quarter of work where you made at least app. $1500. If people paid as much attention to their finances, retirement plan, etc., as they do to sports and cars and toys, they'd be in much better shape I just thought it was odd, considering I had taken all the health and safety and civics classes my public school education required, getting a college degree as a business major, including multiple semesters of accounting, and being fully familiar with the concepts of "employer's contribution" and even how that relates to self employment tax...I thought I was pretty well informed. Just wondered how I managed to thread the needle all those years and never hear about the credits requirement. (it's not like I had spent a lifetime shrugging off details) Had I not already fullfilled the requirement, I would have been greatly annoyed over the discovery. I would have thought that somewhere over the course of all those years there would have been someone shaking a finger at me, saying "you better beware" etc If I live long enough to get back what I paid in (yes, I'm keeping score), I will consider mine a life well lived.
Backshop For Social Security, you need 40 credits. Each can be earned with one quarter of work where you made at least app. $1500. If people paid as much attention to their finances, retirement plan, etc., as they do to sports and cars and toys, they'd be in much better shape
I just thought it was odd, considering I had taken all the health and safety and civics classes my public school education required, getting a college degree as a business major, including multiple semesters of accounting, and being fully familiar with the concepts of "employer's contribution" and even how that relates to self employment tax...I thought I was pretty well informed.
Just wondered how I managed to thread the needle all those years and never hear about the credits requirement. (it's not like I had spent a lifetime shrugging off details) Had I not already fullfilled the requirement, I would have been greatly annoyed over the discovery.
I would have thought that somewhere over the course of all those years there would have been someone shaking a finger at me, saying "you better beware" etc
If I live long enough to get back what I paid in (yes, I'm keeping score), I will consider mine a life well lived.
Through high school in two different schools and college in three different schools I do not recall any course or for that matter any class's one day lesson plan that covered Retirement and/or how Social Security enters into it. I look at it as a failing in the educational system.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BackshopFor Social Security, you need 40 credits. Each can be earned with one quarter of work where you made at least app. $1500. If people paid as much attention to their finances, retirement plan, etc., as they do to sports and cars and toys, they'd be in much better shape
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
For Social Security, you need 40 credits. Each can be earned with one quarter of work where you made at least app. $1500. If people paid as much attention to their finances, retirement plan, etc., as they do to sports and cars and toys, they'd be in much better shape. It's just like some people assume that someone else figured out that if you fully fund your IRA, you'll have enough money in retirement, along with SS. That's not necessarily true. It's an arbitrary amount, not how much you'll need.
When I retired a few years ago and went on social security, I was completely blindsided by the "credits" aspect necessary to qualify. OH, I had ample credits, being the life-long industrious servant I had always been...I was just shocked in an "why am I just now being made aware of this requirement?" sort of way, because the threshold was not a low one.
Which forces me to wonder, these career criminals who boast about having never filed an income tax return.....what do they do for retirement? Perhaps prison is their best option?
tree68I would suspect that any such situation would lack any sort of official documentation. The judge would probably say as a sort of an aside, "enlist and we won't pursue this any further." Said another way, "get the heck out of my town..."
Said another way, "get the heck out of my town..."
One problem with "enlist or else" is that learning a trade is not necessarily guaranteed. How many of these cases wind up as front line infantrymen with no real skills for the job market after discharge?
BaltACDAnd therein we have the judiciary just as corrupt and criminal as the criminals.
One might also consider it a chance for an individual who made a bad choice to redeem himself. Instead of sitting in the county lockup for a year, they enlist, learn a trade, and do well by themselves. It also separates them from whatever bad influences they may have faced.
In other words, it could be a good thing. And that judge may well have been your neighbor and longtime friend. He just doesn't want Johnny to live his life with a record.
tree68 BEAUSABRE Let me point out that "enlist or else" enlistment is against regulations. I would suspect that any such situation would lack any sort of official documentation. The judge would probably say as a sort of an aside, "enlist and we won't pursue this any further." Said another way, "get the heck out of my town..."
BEAUSABRE Let me point out that "enlist or else" enlistment is against regulations.
I would suspect that any such situation would lack any sort of official documentation. The judge would probably say as a sort of an aside, "enlist and we won't pursue this any further."
And therein we have the judiciary just as corrupt and criminal as the criminals.
BEAUSABRELet me point out that "enlist or else" enlistment is against regulations.
Let me point out that "enlist or else" enlistment is against regulations. "Without a waiver, Army Regulation 610-210 — which covers Army recruiting guidelines — states that an applicant is not eligible for enlistment if, “as a condition for any civil conviction or adverse disposition or any other reason through a civil or criminal court, [they are] ordered or subjected to a sentence that implies or imposes enlistment into the Armed Forces of the United States.” Anyone who knowingly enlists such an individual is subject to disciplinary proceedings and the individual will be summarily discharged
Convicted OneThis likely won't be popular, but I also believe that situational criteria deserve to be part of the equation. If you have a perp who has been gainfully employed 10+ years, paid his bills, paid his taxes, and got himself caught in an"everybody else is doing it" moment of stupidity....I believe such a person does deserve lieniency that a "8 prior convictions over 15 years, never filed income tax return" sort of person DOES NOT DESERVE. I have much less reservation filling the prisons up with the latter, yet I am sure some would insist that I am extending privilige in showing leniency to the former. Gotta draw a line somewhere, and for me recidivism is that marker.
If you have a perp who has been gainfully employed 10+ years, paid his bills, paid his taxes, and got himself caught in an"everybody else is doing it" moment of stupidity....I believe such a person does deserve lieniency that a "8 prior convictions over 15 years, never filed income tax return" sort of person DOES NOT DESERVE.
I have much less reservation filling the prisons up with the latter, yet I am sure some would insist that I am extending privilige in showing leniency to the former.
Gotta draw a line somewhere, and for me recidivism is that marker.
I'll take it one step further. The 'White Collar' criminal deserves more 'hard time' than the Blue Collar theif. A Theif is a Theif, however the white collar criminal has also breached the trust that was placed in them to reach the position where they could perform their criminal activities. In general the white collar theif steals more than a blue collar theif can even dream about, let alone get into a position to steal that amount.
Recidivism is that marker for the common blue collar criminal. First offense is that marker for the white collar criminal as they had to implement an entire thought and trust plan to put them in their position to commit the crime - they are 10 time the criminal as a first time blue collar criminal.
This likely won't be popular, but I also believe that situational criteria deserve to be part of the equation.
Convicted One BaltACD The 'Law & Order' crowd nominally want every one except themselves locked up as they feature everyone except themeselves have committed and are guilty of crimes. You and I really aren't so far apart in that belief. Not really a subject we can adequately explore within the constraints of this forum. But yeah, I hear ya. I've played the other side of the fence too, and I can tell you with clear conscience, some folks belong behind bars. My personal take is that it's the smart criminals who are under-represented behind bars.
BaltACD The 'Law & Order' crowd nominally want every one except themselves locked up as they feature everyone except themeselves have committed and are guilty of crimes.
You and I really aren't so far apart in that belief. Not really a subject we can adequately explore within the constraints of this forum. But yeah, I hear ya.
I've played the other side of the fence too, and I can tell you with clear conscience, some folks belong behind bars. My personal take is that it's the smart criminals who are under-represented behind bars.
Smart criminals represented by expensive (good) lawyers are under-represented behind bars.
Convicted OneBut, at the same time, I believe that we need to deal far more severely with recidivism. People who are counting upon minimal penalties and a swift return to the playground....are taking excess advantage of those of us trying to do things "right".
It's been said that prison is sort of a college for criminals. Those who are incarcerated are willing to share their experience...
And that's not just a take from "The Shawshank Redemption."
BaltACDThe 'Law & Order' crowd nominally want every one except themselves locked up as they feature everyone except themeselves have committed and are guilty of crimes.
Convicted One BaltACD The Prison Industrial Complex. Lock everybody up for anything - FOR LIFE. The USA has a higher proportion of its population behind bars than any other country in the World. I've got mixed emotions Balt. On the one hand, I'm quite certain that entrapment is pervasive, and the fact that the judges support this as a "lesser evil", is an indictment of our entire system. But, at the same time, I believe that we need to deal far more severely with recidivism. People who are counting upon minimal penalties and a swift return to the playground....are taking excess advantage of those of us trying to do things "right". Of course I'm sure that if such a crackdown came about, we'd be inundated with protests that the practice unfairly targets certain groups,....you know.... the guys breaking laws repeatedly.
BaltACD The Prison Industrial Complex. Lock everybody up for anything - FOR LIFE. The USA has a higher proportion of its population behind bars than any other country in the World.
I've got mixed emotions Balt. On the one hand, I'm quite certain that entrapment is pervasive, and the fact that the judges support this as a "lesser evil", is an indictment of our entire system.
But, at the same time, I believe that we need to deal far more severely with recidivism. People who are counting upon minimal penalties and a swift return to the playground....are taking excess advantage of those of us trying to do things "right".
Of course I'm sure that if such a crackdown came about, we'd be inundated with protests that the practice unfairly targets certain groups,....you know.... the guys breaking laws repeatedly.
The 'Law & Order' crowd nominally want every one except themselves locked up as they feature everyone except themeselves have committed and are guilty of crimes.
Once prisons are mentioned the 'Law & Order' crowd don't want to pay for them. The 'capitalists' among the Law & Order crowd now think prisons can be turned into a profit making venture at so much a head, just like cattle.
When we start prosecuting and enforcing 'White Collar' crime to the same levels as 'Blue Collar' crime we can then be on the path to equal justice under the law.
Flintlock76" Let me let you in on a little secret. 98% of the people sitting in the defendant's chair are guilt of what they're accused of."
The "pretext stop" sure seems to be a flagrant betrayal of the spirit of the 4th amendment, and the mere fact that so many of our keenest legal minds have managed to rationalize their way around that, pretty much proves the system IS NOT unbiased.
Prosecutors who flaunt their conviction rate as some kind of trophy, for one example.
BaltACDThe Prison Industrial Complex. Lock everybody up for anything - FOR LIFE. The USA has a higher proportion of its population behind bars than any other country in the World.
SALfan1 Fourth paragraph: My brother-in-law and a lady who worked for me at one point both came up with what I consider masterpieces of punishment. The brother-in-law had a daughter who would go to her room and slam her door when her parents told her "No!" or when she didn't get her way. She did that one too many times, and my brother-in-law took the door off its hinges and put it in the garage.
Fourth paragraph: My brother-in-law and a lady who worked for me at one point both came up with what I consider masterpieces of punishment. The brother-in-law had a daughter who would go to her room and slam her door when her parents told her "No!" or when she didn't get her way. She did that one too many times, and my brother-in-law took the door off its hinges and put it in the garage.
My 9 year old son (who is definitely not 9 years old anymore) got mad at me and stormed to his room and slammed the door. I found that acceptable (as my father definitely would not have).
I also told him he was STILL going to have to do what I said, 'cause I'm the grown up.
And he did.
He also didn't feel the need to slam his bedroom door anymore.
I think that worked out well.
On a different note:
I view prison as having three purposes: punishment, reform, and/or incarceration.
Punishment, 'cause you did wrong and there's consequences, as you will note.
Reform, 'cause you're still a citizen and deserve respect and we want you to not WANT to do this crap anymore.
Incarceration, 'cause SOME of you are too dangerous to be out walking with the rest of us.
If you want to learn more about prisons and being a prisoner, go to Youtube and look for Larry Lawton. He knows a LOT.
Ed
tree68Many's the judge who offered two options - jail or military...
Just so everyone knows the military's never been particularly crazy about that option, usually it's only been gone along with when recruiting is slack. It's not Mr. Drill Sergeants job to correct 18 years of parental neglect, or over-indulgence for that matter but most manage to pull it off. Amazingly.
Supposedly that's not to be done anymore but I'm not so sure.
By the way, the military's never been enthusiastic about the draft as well, the attitude being "If you don't want to be here we don't want you here either!"
matthewsaggieIn my high school years (67-70) if you really screwed up you might find yourself in Vietnam so fast your head would spin. Now that was a sanction.
Many's the judge who offered two options - jail or military...
In my high school years (67-70) if you really screwed up you might find yourself in Vietnam so fast your head would spin. Now that was a sanction.
tree68 A significant part of the problem these days, IMHO, is that the surety of punishment is not there. Those of us of an age knew that if we misbehaved, there was likely a switch, or a belt, destined for contact with our hind end in our not-to-distant future. After a couple of actual applications, we usually learned. It was not the actual punishment that kept us straight. It was knowing that said punishment would be forthcoming if we acted up. Regardless of your feelings on corporal punishment, there needs to be some penalty for misbehaving, and it needs to leave a lasting impression. A regular critic of today's methods of childrearing, John Rosemond suggests cleaning a misbehaving kid's room of everything but bed and clothes, and limiting electronics to the absolute minimum (ie, schoolwork). Good behavior over time starts restoring priviledges.
A significant part of the problem these days, IMHO, is that the surety of punishment is not there.
Those of us of an age knew that if we misbehaved, there was likely a switch, or a belt, destined for contact with our hind end in our not-to-distant future. After a couple of actual applications, we usually learned. It was not the actual punishment that kept us straight. It was knowing that said punishment would be forthcoming if we acted up.
Regardless of your feelings on corporal punishment, there needs to be some penalty for misbehaving, and it needs to leave a lasting impression.
A regular critic of today's methods of childrearing, John Rosemond suggests cleaning a misbehaving kid's room of everything but bed and clothes, and limiting electronics to the absolute minimum (ie, schoolwork). Good behavior over time starts restoring priviledges.
I edited your post somewhat in order to reply.
First paragraph: I agree 100%.
Second paragraph: Gee, I didn't know your parents were kin to my parents! Even with three hard-headed boys, after Mama scorched our butts, or Daddy unleashed nuclear holocaust on them, we thought about consequences (sometimes, at least).
Third paragraph: Agree 100%.
Fourth paragraph: My brother-in-law and a lady who worked for me at one point both came up with what I consider masterpieces of punishment. The brother-in-law had a daughter who would go to her room and slam her door when her parents told her "No!" or when she didn't get her way. She did that one too many times, and my brother-in-law took the door off its hinges and put it in the garage. Cured the problem! The brother-in-law's son got into some kind of trouble, and his punishment was removal of everything other than the bed, schoolbooks and a Bible from his room. For three months. Cured the problem!
The lady who worked for me had a son who could smell uncertainty or lack of self-confidence in a teacher, and when he did he made life miserable for that teacher. She and her husband spanked the son, took away privileges and took other steps without success. She came to me one day and asked for 3 consecutive days off. She had the leave, so I said okay. She had arranged with the school and the teachers to go to school with him and follow him around wherever he went, and sat behind him in each class. She did that, and every time he gave a teacher a hard time she would stand up and thump him on top of his head with her knuckle, hard enough to get his attention. The other kids were unmerciful in giving him crap about his mother following him around and thumping his head, and the thumps hurt. The other kids gave him grief about it for weeks or months. She never had to follow him around during the school day again.
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