https://www.yahoo.com/news/fencing-rings-netted-18-million-045029067.html
CMStPnP https://www.yahoo.com/news/fencing-rings-netted-18-million-045029067.html
The big Headline noted, "...700 Arested...." And from the article: "...In a letter to L.A. County Dist. Atty. George Gascón in December, Union Pacific reported that thefts targeting its trains in Los Angeles County had increased by 160% over the year before, with a particularly sharp surge in the lead-up to the peak holiday season. The railroad company has argued that the theft problem was made worse by Gascón’s approach to prosecuting criminal offenders..." [which was followed by the further statements]
"...“Charges are reduced to a misdemeanor or petty offense, and the criminal is released after paying a nominal fine,” Adrian Guerrero, a director of public affairs for Union Pacific, said in the letter.
In response, [LA. D.A.] Gascón chastised Union Pacific for having poor security and said that his office was filing charges against the suspects..."
Probably, many here have read in other media, of the "problems of retail thefts, and other types of thefts against commercial commerce. In many other areas of the country. [ie: Target Corp. reported some $400 Million+, in theft from their outlets, in the first half of 2022(?).
In the same article, posted by the O.P.; mentions a local California Company is increasing surveilance in the area of 'high theft' from the railroad(?). Possibly, the 'new' facility out at Barstow area will allow the train speed to increase through the area of high theft, that should be alot harder to steal from a faster moving train?
samfp1943 Possibly, the 'new' facility out at Barstow area will allow the train speed to increase through the area of high theft, that should be alot harder to steal from a faster moving train?
Possibly, the 'new' facility out at Barstow area will allow the train speed to increase through the area of high theft, that should be alot harder to steal from a faster moving train?
Except for the fact that this is UP and the Barstow facility will be BNSF.
So petty theivery is now OK? No suprise petty theivery increased.
rrnut282No suprise petty theivery increased.
Have you been following the "bail reform" just over the state line in Illinois? Shocking!
Convicted One rrnut282 No suprise petty theivery increased. Have you been following the "bail reform" just over the state line in Illinois? Shocking!
rrnut282 No suprise petty theivery increased.
The Prison Industrial Complex. Lock everybody up for anything - FOR LIFE.
The USA has a higher proportion of its population behind bars than any other country in the World.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDThe USA has a higher proportion of its population behind bars than any other country in the World.
Of course, because they're guilty.
Take it from Alan Dershowitz, one of the most distinguished legal minds in the country and no hard-core right-winger:
" Let me let you in on a little secret. 98% of the people sitting in the defendant's chair are guilty of what they're accused of."
Flintlock76 BaltACD The USA has a higher proportion of its population behind bars than any other country in the World. Of course, because they're guilty. Take it from Alan Dershowitz, one of the most distinguished legal minds in the country and no hard-core right-winger: " Let me let you in on a little secret. 98% of the people sitting in the defendant's chair are guilty of what they're accused of."
BaltACD The USA has a higher proportion of its population behind bars than any other country in the World.
Including the one Dershowwitz supported in Impeachment.
In many cases they are guilty of breathing while black.
BaltACDIncluding the one Dershowwitz supported in Impeachment. In many cases they are guilty of breathing while black.
If that's the way you think about it I won't try and change your mind. But I will say this.
There are still plenty of countries in this world where if you break the law, you disappear. Permanently.
Also, the current prison population in the US is two million. Sounds shocking until you remember the population of the US is 332 million. That means the percentage of the population in prison is 0.6% of the total. Not so shocking when you know the numbers.
Despite the fact that some people refuse to accept reality, there are some people who need to be locked up so that decent people can go about their lives without being crime victims. There are people in the world who are bad people, like it or not. I have occasion to read the criminal records of some convicted felons; locking up some of them had to decrease the crime rate in their home county by an appreciable percentage.
So conviction of a crime - any crime - is the rest of the criminals life out of contact with 'the good people'. Better make prisons and their operation equal to the Defense Dept. budget.
What is this 'innocent until PROVEN beyond a reasonable doubt' that is written in the Constitution. Everything I am hearing hear is 'Guilty until proven Innocent beyond ANY doubt'. The Constitution still sets everything in motion - not the tweets of the Emperor.
Not all crimes warrant Life in Prison or the Death Penalty. Do we want the incarcereated to become productive citizens or do we want criminals to get their post High School graduate education in being more criminal in the future.
I assume that some on this thread have a problem with the Eighth Amendment: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
A significant part of the problem these days, IMHO, is that the surety of punishment is not there.
This begins long before the perps start committing crimes against the populace. It starts when mom & dad's little darling can do no wrong.
Those of us of an age knew that if we misbehaved, there was likely a switch, or a belt, destined for contact with our hind end in our not-to-distant future. After a couple of actual applications, we usually learned. It was not the actual punishment that kept us straight. It was knowing that said punishment would be forthcoming if we acted up.
Today's petty criminals know that they'll be on the street in hours. Some have been known to be arrested multiple times in the same day or two.
Regardless of your feelings on corporal punishment, there needs to be some penalty for misbehaving, and it needs to leave a lasting impression.
A regular critic of today's methods of childrearing, John Rosemond suggests cleaning a misbehaving kid's room of everything but bed and clothes, and limiting electronics to the absolute minimum (ie, schoolwork). Good behavior over time starts restoring priviledges.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
In my opinion, much of the problem is the de-emphasis of 'crimes of property' in the current justice system. This might be epitomized by something one of my sister's professors said in the late 1970s regarding the person who tried hedge-trimming with his mower and cut off a couple of fingers. His stance was that the person should be entitled to large money damages 'because he was a person suffering, and the company that made the mower was large, capable of paying, and probably insured anyway'. (This is the same logic about high diesel prices: anybody needing to use diesel "for work" can just pass it along in fuel surcharges so it's OK)
You will note that the 700 prosecutions mostly involve 'fences' and other people doing something with the stolen goods. This is like all those folks who want to solve the 'illegal immigrant' problem with draconian penalties on anyone who employs them. I guess the idea is that if there is no place for the thieves to peddle what they keep after ransacking Conrail Boyz-style, the "vandalism" will just peter out.
A bit more disturbing to me is the idea that 'criminal trespass' no longer seems to be grounds for prosecution. That is not a particularly difficult thing to determine or to prove, especially if cameras or drone footage is involved. If banks can get away with using dye markers to flag for currency theft, why not markers in container dunnage, or fluorescent material on container tamperproof seals?
In a society where non-payment of assessed child support is statutory grounds for suspension of driving privileges, it seems logical to associate 'marked' individuals with intent to commit criminal trespass... being already guilty of trespass by being far enough on railroad property to access container ends...
Seems that a lot of people have a problem with the Fifth Amendment, too: "No person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law
Overmod In my opinion, much of the problem is the de-emphasis of 'crimes of property' in the current justice system. This might be epitomized by something one of my sister's professors said in the late 1970s regarding the person who tried hedge-trimming with his mower and cut off a couple of fingers. His stance was that the person should be entitled to large money damages 'because he was a person suffering, and the company that made the mower was large, capable of paying, and probably insured anyway'. (This is the same logic about high diesel prices: anybody needing to use diesel "for work" can just pass it along in fuel surcharges so it's OK) You will note that the 700 prosecutions mostly involve 'fences' and other people doing something with the stolen goods. This is like all those folks who want to solve the 'illegal immigrant' problem with draconian penalties on anyone who employs them. I guess the idea is that if there is no place for the thieves to peddle what they keep after ransacking Conrail Boyz-style, the "vandalism" will just peter out. A bit more disturbing to me is the idea that 'criminal trespass' no longer seems to be grounds for prosecution. That is not a particularly difficult thing to determine or to prove, especially if cameras or drone footage is involved. If banks can get away with using dye markers to flag for currency theft, why not markers in container dunnage, or fluorescent material on container tamperproof seals? In a society where non-payment of assessed child support is statutory grounds for suspension of driving privileges, it seems logical to associate 'marked' individuals with intent to commit criminal trespass... being already guilty of trespass by being far enough on railroad property to access container ends...
Sounds like you would approve of the level of security "enjoyed" in the PRC or the former DDR.
charlie hebdoSounds like you would approve of the level of security "enjoyed" in the PRC or the former DDR.
This is not a political sort of crime, and I think no one can argue that it has a deleterious effect without redeeming social purpose. I'm certainly in favor of social programs to 'rehabilitate' individuals who engage in this particular crime, but preventing recidivism by nonviolent means ought to be a priority, at least in the short run.
Note that I don't agree at all with the use of deadly force in this situation. In fact I'd disagree with the use of the threat of deadly force in on-site apprehension. Those seem to be particular hallmarks of the PRC approach, and of the DDR border policing if not of Vopos directly.
I see a difference between 'following up' people who have been arrested, for example by providing ankle-bracelet trackers, and the Vopo techniques of keeping dossiers on large numbers of citizens who 'might be tempted to commit crimes' (for example, trolling their garbage for items to prompt canine patrols).
I'm highly in favor of presumption of innocence, but being caught (or filmed) with hands on the second level doors of a stack train, well onto railroad property, is difficult to construe as 'innocence'.
CSSHEGEWISCH I assume that some on this thread have a problem with the Eighth Amendment: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
The amount of bail should vary with the severity of the crime. Arrestees accused of serious violence shouldn't be released with little or no bail required.
tree68 A significant part of the problem these days, IMHO, is that the surety of punishment is not there. Those of us of an age knew that if we misbehaved, there was likely a switch, or a belt, destined for contact with our hind end in our not-to-distant future. After a couple of actual applications, we usually learned. It was not the actual punishment that kept us straight. It was knowing that said punishment would be forthcoming if we acted up. Regardless of your feelings on corporal punishment, there needs to be some penalty for misbehaving, and it needs to leave a lasting impression. A regular critic of today's methods of childrearing, John Rosemond suggests cleaning a misbehaving kid's room of everything but bed and clothes, and limiting electronics to the absolute minimum (ie, schoolwork). Good behavior over time starts restoring priviledges.
I edited your post somewhat in order to reply.
First paragraph: I agree 100%.
Second paragraph: Gee, I didn't know your parents were kin to my parents! Even with three hard-headed boys, after Mama scorched our butts, or Daddy unleashed nuclear holocaust on them, we thought about consequences (sometimes, at least).
Third paragraph: Agree 100%.
Fourth paragraph: My brother-in-law and a lady who worked for me at one point both came up with what I consider masterpieces of punishment. The brother-in-law had a daughter who would go to her room and slam her door when her parents told her "No!" or when she didn't get her way. She did that one too many times, and my brother-in-law took the door off its hinges and put it in the garage. Cured the problem! The brother-in-law's son got into some kind of trouble, and his punishment was removal of everything other than the bed, schoolbooks and a Bible from his room. For three months. Cured the problem!
The lady who worked for me had a son who could smell uncertainty or lack of self-confidence in a teacher, and when he did he made life miserable for that teacher. She and her husband spanked the son, took away privileges and took other steps without success. She came to me one day and asked for 3 consecutive days off. She had the leave, so I said okay. She had arranged with the school and the teachers to go to school with him and follow him around wherever he went, and sat behind him in each class. She did that, and every time he gave a teacher a hard time she would stand up and thump him on top of his head with her knuckle, hard enough to get his attention. The other kids were unmerciful in giving him crap about his mother following him around and thumping his head, and the thumps hurt. The other kids gave him grief about it for weeks or months. She never had to follow him around during the school day again.
In my high school years (67-70) if you really screwed up you might find yourself in Vietnam so fast your head would spin. Now that was a sanction.
matthewsaggieIn my high school years (67-70) if you really screwed up you might find yourself in Vietnam so fast your head would spin. Now that was a sanction.
Many's the judge who offered two options - jail or military...
tree68Many's the judge who offered two options - jail or military...
Just so everyone knows the military's never been particularly crazy about that option, usually it's only been gone along with when recruiting is slack. It's not Mr. Drill Sergeants job to correct 18 years of parental neglect, or over-indulgence for that matter but most manage to pull it off. Amazingly.
Supposedly that's not to be done anymore but I'm not so sure.
By the way, the military's never been enthusiastic about the draft as well, the attitude being "If you don't want to be here we don't want you here either!"
SALfan1 Fourth paragraph: My brother-in-law and a lady who worked for me at one point both came up with what I consider masterpieces of punishment. The brother-in-law had a daughter who would go to her room and slam her door when her parents told her "No!" or when she didn't get her way. She did that one too many times, and my brother-in-law took the door off its hinges and put it in the garage.
Fourth paragraph: My brother-in-law and a lady who worked for me at one point both came up with what I consider masterpieces of punishment. The brother-in-law had a daughter who would go to her room and slam her door when her parents told her "No!" or when she didn't get her way. She did that one too many times, and my brother-in-law took the door off its hinges and put it in the garage.
My 9 year old son (who is definitely not 9 years old anymore) got mad at me and stormed to his room and slammed the door. I found that acceptable (as my father definitely would not have).
I also told him he was STILL going to have to do what I said, 'cause I'm the grown up.
And he did.
He also didn't feel the need to slam his bedroom door anymore.
I think that worked out well.
On a different note:
I view prison as having three purposes: punishment, reform, and/or incarceration.
Punishment, 'cause you did wrong and there's consequences, as you will note.
Reform, 'cause you're still a citizen and deserve respect and we want you to not WANT to do this crap anymore.
Incarceration, 'cause SOME of you are too dangerous to be out walking with the rest of us.
If you want to learn more about prisons and being a prisoner, go to Youtube and look for Larry Lawton. He knows a LOT.
Ed
BaltACDThe Prison Industrial Complex. Lock everybody up for anything - FOR LIFE. The USA has a higher proportion of its population behind bars than any other country in the World.
I've got mixed emotions Balt. On the one hand, I'm quite certain that entrapment is pervasive, and the fact that the judges support this as a "lesser evil", is an indictment of our entire system.
But, at the same time, I believe that we need to deal far more severely with recidivism. People who are counting upon minimal penalties and a swift return to the playground....are taking excess advantage of those of us trying to do things "right".
Of course I'm sure that if such a crackdown came about, we'd be inundated with protests that the practice unfairly targets certain groups,....you know.... the guys breaking laws repeatedly.
Flintlock76" Let me let you in on a little secret. 98% of the people sitting in the defendant's chair are guilt of what they're accused of."
The "pretext stop" sure seems to be a flagrant betrayal of the spirit of the 4th amendment, and the mere fact that so many of our keenest legal minds have managed to rationalize their way around that, pretty much proves the system IS NOT unbiased.
Prosecutors who flaunt their conviction rate as some kind of trophy, for one example.
Convicted One BaltACD The Prison Industrial Complex. Lock everybody up for anything - FOR LIFE. The USA has a higher proportion of its population behind bars than any other country in the World. I've got mixed emotions Balt. On the one hand, I'm quite certain that entrapment is pervasive, and the fact that the judges support this as a "lesser evil", is an indictment of our entire system. But, at the same time, I believe that we need to deal far more severely with recidivism. People who are counting upon minimal penalties and a swift return to the playground....are taking excess advantage of those of us trying to do things "right". Of course I'm sure that if such a crackdown came about, we'd be inundated with protests that the practice unfairly targets certain groups,....you know.... the guys breaking laws repeatedly.
BaltACD The Prison Industrial Complex. Lock everybody up for anything - FOR LIFE. The USA has a higher proportion of its population behind bars than any other country in the World.
The 'Law & Order' crowd nominally want every one except themselves locked up as they feature everyone except themeselves have committed and are guilty of crimes.
Once prisons are mentioned the 'Law & Order' crowd don't want to pay for them. The 'capitalists' among the Law & Order crowd now think prisons can be turned into a profit making venture at so much a head, just like cattle.
When we start prosecuting and enforcing 'White Collar' crime to the same levels as 'Blue Collar' crime we can then be on the path to equal justice under the law.
BaltACDThe 'Law & Order' crowd nominally want every one except themselves locked up as they feature everyone except themeselves have committed and are guilty of crimes.
You and I really aren't so far apart in that belief. Not really a subject we can adequately explore within the constraints of this forum. But yeah, I hear ya.
I've played the other side of the fence too, and I can tell you with clear conscience, some folks belong behind bars. My personal take is that it's the smart criminals who are under-represented behind bars.
Convicted OneBut, at the same time, I believe that we need to deal far more severely with recidivism. People who are counting upon minimal penalties and a swift return to the playground....are taking excess advantage of those of us trying to do things "right".
It's been said that prison is sort of a college for criminals. Those who are incarcerated are willing to share their experience...
And that's not just a take from "The Shawshank Redemption."
Convicted One BaltACD The 'Law & Order' crowd nominally want every one except themselves locked up as they feature everyone except themeselves have committed and are guilty of crimes. You and I really aren't so far apart in that belief. Not really a subject we can adequately explore within the constraints of this forum. But yeah, I hear ya. I've played the other side of the fence too, and I can tell you with clear conscience, some folks belong behind bars. My personal take is that it's the smart criminals who are under-represented behind bars.
BaltACD The 'Law & Order' crowd nominally want every one except themselves locked up as they feature everyone except themeselves have committed and are guilty of crimes.
Smart criminals represented by expensive (good) lawyers are under-represented behind bars.
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