For those who haven't seen the video:
Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
I wouder how much training the Officers have? Anything about train tracks? So where has there been short comings in the officers employment?
1. What were the various officer"s traffic record? Any citations and what kind?
2. What kind of training about RR crossings.
3. Did they have a training syllabas and was trainer certified to do training?
4. Recurrent training?
5. Length of service ?
After an incident our training boss started us having a short session of making sure our call outs were aware of the dangers coming to work. That included RR crossings, fog, ice, drivers not experienced with ice and snow, . drunk drivers late at night, etc.
Now MC's tag line is appropriate.
I can't condone parking on the tracks, but recall that this was a road rage incident possibly involving a gun. Kinda distracting. The officer's first thought was not to get shot themselves...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68I can't condone parking on the tracks, but recall that this was a road rage incident possibly involving a gun. Kinda distracting. The officer's first thought was not to get shot themselves...
Target fixation vs. situational awareness kills many in all forms of human activity.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
What details have been reported about this alleged road rage incident and a gun?
What is the latest information about the condtion of the victim?
.
blue streak 1I wouder how much training the Officers have? Anything about train tracks? So where has there been short comings in the officers employment? 1. What were the various officer"s traffic record? Any citations and what kind?
The apparent "hush" on particulars pertaining to the officer is starting to look like a possible story within the story, isn't it? Especially in consideration of the priority shown these past few years of publishing polarizing particulars of officers involved. Makes you wonder if more than just privacy concerns might be in play.
Locally a story getting a lot of media attention here involves two women who went into a bar leaving 3 minor children sit in the auto in the bar's parking lot. Thankfully there was no further mishap (beyond the neglect) to the children, but the neglect alone has been sufficient to get the women's names and pictures all over the media.
Compared to what isn't going on with this incident in Colorado, almost begs one to wonder why the secrecy?
Convicted One... Compared to what isn't going on with this incident in Colorado, almost begs one to wonder why the secrecy?
The more guilty the local government and its agents, the more secrecy!
Here's the uncut bodycam video of the Platteville officer. Be forewarned that there is some strong language.
Here are some of the things that bother me about this video and the one I posted above last night:
1. Platteville officer leaves his cruiser on the tracks, not using his loudspeaker to have the woman move the truck forward to give him room to pull forward. It could be explained as tunnelvision, focusing on the issue in front of him, but with what happens after this, his mistake just snowballed to escalate the situation.
2. The Fort Lupton officers arrive, and you can clearly see on the female officer's body camera that they are on a railroad crossing. At no point in the videos do any of the three officers in the videos tell their dispatchers to contact the railroad to warn them of the situation. They also fail to call the emergency number posted at the crossing to alert the railroad.
3. The 20-year old woman is detained, handcuffed, and put in the back of the cruiser still on the tracks by the female Fort Lupton officer. The pickup truck is cleared of any other possible occupants. At no time do any of the officers decide to de-escalate the incident and move the cruiser off the tracks, instead focusing on searching the vehicle for the "supposed" weapon (more on that below).
4. While the Platteville officer and the female Fort Lupton officer search the vehicle, you clearly start to hear the train's horn. Neither officer acknowledges the horn, focusing on searching the vehicle until just seconds before the train reaches the crossing. The second Fort Lupton officer, on the crossing with the cruiser, even fails to acknowledge the approaching train, even though he should have been able to see it coming as well as hear the woman's screams that there was a train approaching. While there may not have been time to move the cruiser off the tracks, none of the officers make any effort to open one of the rear doors of the cruiser and pull the woman out and to safety. The male Fort Lupton officer in the dashcam video was even quite calm as he walked away from the cruiser, leaving the woman inside.
5. In the uncut bodycam video of the Platteville officer, he asks the female Fort Lupton officer if the lady was in the cruiser that was hit. The Fort Lupton officer then realizes that the woman was in the cruiser, apparently forgetting that she'd put her in the cruiser herself, which has me wondering how they could "forget" where the woman they pulled over and detained was. The Fort Lupton officer then starts calling for EMS and tells her dispatcher that the woman was in the struck cruiser. The Platteville officer just calls his dispatcher and tells them to call EMS, not telling them that there was somebody in the cruiser that was struck.
6. After the clip of the rescue squad at the scene, you see the officers back at the victim's pickup searching it for this "supposed" weapon again. When the officers were searching the truck before the train came through, they had searched the front seats and then moved to the rear seats, apparently not finding anything in the front. So, after they nearly kill the woman by leaving her on the tracks to get hit (and after some edited video), suddenly the cops find ammo and a gun in the front seat.
chatanuga... 6. After the clip of the rescue squad at the scene, you see the officers back at the victim's pickup searching it for this "supposed" weapon again. When the officers were searching the truck before the train came through, they had searched the front seats and then moved to the rear seats, apparently not finding anything in the front. So, after they nearly kill the woman by leaving her on the tracks to get hit (and after some edited video), suddenly the cops find ammo and a gun in the front seat. Kevin
I'll make one comment about #6 - It will mean something to those that have followed news about Baltimore Police Dept. over the last several years
Gun Trace Task Force.
chatanuga 3. The 20-year old woman is detained, handcuffed, and put in the back of the cruiser still on the tracks by the female Fort Lupton officer.
3. The 20-year old woman is detained, handcuffed, and put in the back of the cruiser still on the tracks by the female Fort Lupton officer.
But not, as far as I could tell, arrested.
The "detainee" had said there were no weapons in her car.
If the gun that was found in her car is registered to her, she's got some intense 'splainin' to do. The cops clearly cannot plant a gun owned by the person they're investigating*. There was also apparently a holster on the seat.
Ed
Well, that's not entirely true. But it's hard to believe that one of them would have had the "detainee's" gun in their possession since they had no knowledge that they were going to have this happen.
I think it highly likely it's her gun. But that doesn't mean that she's the one involved in the earlier incident. Maybe. Maybe not.
chatanuga Here's the uncut bodycam video of the Platteville officer. Be forewarned that there is some strong language. Here are some of the things that bother me about this video and the one I posted above last night: 1. Platteville officer leaves his cruiser on the tracks, not using his loudspeaker to have the woman move the truck forward to give him room to pull forward. It could be explained as tunnelvision, focusing on the issue in front of him, but with what happens after this, his mistake just snowballed to escalate the situation. 2. The Fort Lupton officers arrive, and you can clearly see on the female officer's body camera that they are on a railroad crossing. At no point in the videos do any of the three officers in the videos tell their dispatchers to contact the railroad to warn them of the situation. They also fail to call the emergency number posted at the crossing to alert the railroad. 3. The 20-year old woman is detained, handcuffed, and put in the back of the cruiser still on the tracks by the female Fort Lupton officer. The pickup truck is cleared of any other possible occupants. At no time do any of the officers decide to de-escalate the incident and move the cruiser off the tracks, instead focusing on searching the vehicle for the "supposed" weapon (more on that below). 4. While the Platteville officer and the female Fort Lupton officer search the vehicle, you clearly start to hear the train's horn. Neither officer acknowledges the horn, focusing on searching the vehicle until just seconds before the train reaches the crossing. The second Fort Lupton officer, on the crossing with the cruiser, even fails to acknowledge the approaching train, even though he should have been able to see it coming as well as hear the woman's screams that there was a train approaching. While there may not have been time to move the cruiser off the tracks, none of the officers make any effort to open one of the rear doors of the cruiser and pull the woman out and to safety. The male Fort Lupton officer in the dashcam video was even quite calm as he walked away from the cruiser, leaving the woman inside. 5. In the uncut bodycam video of the Platteville officer, he asks the female Fort Lupton officer if the lady was in the cruiser that was hit. The Fort Lupton officer then realizes that the woman was in the cruiser, apparently forgetting that she'd put her in the cruiser herself, which has me wondering how they could "forget" where the woman they pulled over and detained was. The Fort Lupton officer then starts calling for EMS and tells her dispatcher that the woman was in the struck cruiser. The Platteville officer just calls his dispatcher and tells them to call EMS, not telling them that there was somebody in the cruiser that was struck. 6. After the clip of the rescue squad at the scene, you see the officers back at the victim's pickup searching it for this "supposed" weapon again. When the officers were searching the truck before the train came through, they had searched the front seats and then moved to the rear seats, apparently not finding anything in the front. So, after they nearly kill the woman by leaving her on the tracks to get hit (and after some edited video), suddenly the cops find ammo and a gun in the front seat. Kevin
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding What's going on at about the :30 mark when the officer seems to pick up a cell phone that was on the side of the pickup bed, push a button on it, and set it back down?
What's going on at about the :30 mark when the officer seems to pick up a cell phone that was on the side of the pickup bed, push a button on it, and set it back down?
I believe that that is "detainee's" phone, which she placed there on instruction of the police. I expect the button-pushed can explain what he pushed and why.
chatanugaThe second Fort Lupton officer, on the crossing with the cruiser, even fails to acknowledge the approaching train, even though he should have been able to see it coming as well as hear the woman's screams that there was a train approaching. While there may not have been time to move the cruiser off the tracks, none of the officers make any effort to open one of the rear doors of the cruiser and pull the woman out and to safety.
What that officer at 5:40 in the video does, is absolutely inexcusable.
Every officer that was present there need to be made former police officers as soon as possible.
Much like a captain of a United States naval vessel that never gets a second chance at command after doing something like running his ship aground or some other egregious error, there's no leeway for what's seen in that video happening for police officers.
I've watched a few videos in recent weeks on a YouTube channel called Code Blue Cam that features dash camera and body camera footage of arrests and such in Wisconsin. At least there, the police clearly get agitated if the vehicle that they're pulling over exercises some judgement on where to park.
They make it clearly known to the individual that they just pulled over that they're expected to pull over when the officier initiates the stop and that the officer is the one that selects where they're stopping and makes the decision if it's safe, not the driver being pulled over.
Makes you wonder what was running through their mind initiating a stop right on train tracks, locking a cuffed suspect in a police cruiser parked on tracks, their lack of awareness of the fast approaching train, etc.
Inexcusable.
The officer that initiated the stop kept saying that she slowed and took a long time to pull over. Here's my take on that. It was in the evening after dark, and she's 20, a woman, and alone in what appears to be the middle of nowhere (no nearby lights, houses, etc.). I don't know about Colorado, but here in central Ohio, we've had a few people that have been arrested over the time I've lived here for impersonating police officers. It's possible she could have been trying to find a safe place to pull over if she was unsure if it was a real cop behind her. As for why she stopped at that location, I have no idea since I'm not familiar with the area. Whether she was guilty of any crimes or not, she hasn't been charged with anything that I've heard yet, and there would be some issues if they would try to charge her with anything.
Leo_Ames... Makes you wonder what was running through their mind initiating a stop right on train tracks, locking a cuffed suspect in a police cruiser parked on tracks, their lack of awareness of the fast approaching train, etc. Inexcusable.
I experienced a situation about 1967 when I was living in Bethel Park (Pittsburgh) and working as a Operator on the P&W Sub of the B&O. Coming home after working 2nd trick at about Midnight I was driving down PA-88 a twisty turny narrow two lane road with no shoulders on either side of the road. Cop switched on his gum balls and I continued down the road for about a mile and a half to the parking lot of a hardware store. Cop came at me with all kinds attitude! How dare I???? I came back at him, that maybe he had a death wish to stop in the middle of a two lane road with minimal sight lines, but I didn't! Told him that while he may not value his life, I valued mine and pulled to a location that was SAFE for BOTH of us - that seemed to trigger his safety valves and his steam escaped. I got a warning.
Cop lights do not suspend the laws of physics for moving objects and the sight lines to prevent accidents. Target fixation is a killer.
At least in some states, the law directs motorists to pull over at a safe location when "lit up". Obviously, they have to evaluate where that is.
A lot less attitude from SOME cops would surely improve things.
Convicted One chatanuga The second Fort Lupton officer, on the crossing with the cruiser, even fails to acknowledge the approaching train, even though he should have been able to see it coming as well as hear the woman's screams that there was a train approaching. While there may not have been time to move the cruiser off the tracks, none of the officers make any effort to open one of the rear doors of the cruiser and pull the woman out and to safety. What that officer at 5:40 in the video does, is absolutely inexcusable.
chatanuga The second Fort Lupton officer, on the crossing with the cruiser, even fails to acknowledge the approaching train, even though he should have been able to see it coming as well as hear the woman's screams that there was a train approaching. While there may not have been time to move the cruiser off the tracks, none of the officers make any effort to open one of the rear doors of the cruiser and pull the woman out and to safety.
Murphy Siding Convicted One chatanuga The second Fort Lupton officer, on the crossing with the cruiser, even fails to acknowledge the approaching train, even though he should have been able to see it coming as well as hear the woman's screams that there was a train approaching. While there may not have been time to move the cruiser off the tracks, none of the officers make any effort to open one of the rear doors of the cruiser and pull the woman out and to safety. What that officer at 5:40 in the video does, is absolutely inexcusable. are you messing with us? The video linked is under 3 minutes long.
are you messing with us? The video linked is under 3 minutes long.
I think you're looking at the wrong linked video. One of the more recent links is about 8 minutes long.
Jeff
Murphy Sidingare you messing with us? The video linked is under 3 minutes long.
No, not messing with ya. I guess the que for "next" video to be shown (at youtube) reshuffles from time to time.
At the time of my comment, a related video 8 minutes long was next in the que....and I could see where chatanuga's enumerated comments keyed into the video.
But I've hunted down that other video, here tis'
https://youtu.be/9SW7qNcgy68?t=341
That other video...8 minutes long, is well worth watching in it's entirety, shows more of the related vehicle search.
Best I've been able to tell watching and listening to all the videos, there is only 14 seconds that elapses from the first sound of a train horn until the point of impact. Not sure if anyone could have reacted and effectively extracted the victim in that short of time...except maybe that cop at 5:40 in the video. Hard to believe he didn't see the train well before he heard it. Hard to believe the train didn't start blowing sooner when seeing a car stopped on the tracks.
None of that is any excuse for the car being where it obviously does not belong. Just additional observations
Convicted One Hard to believe the train didn't start blowing sooner when seeing a car stopped on the tracks.
That car on the track was also "lit up" with blue and red flashing lights, although it is not clear as to how they would appear to an approaching train. If those lights were visible to the engineer, that should have been a convincing indication of an emergency situation with an emergency vehicle stopped on the track.
So, did the train not even stop here? Going by the clocks on the bodycam videos the officers are running down the tracks towards what is left of the squad vehicle, approx one minute after impact, and from what I can see there is no sign of any stopped train. I know it takes a while to stop, but it either must be a fairly short train, or it didn't stop...can't even see an EOT flashing in the distance.
Euclid Convicted One Hard to believe the train didn't start blowing sooner when seeing a car stopped on the tracks. That car on the track was also "lit up" with blue and red flashing lights, although it is not clear as to how they would appear to an approaching train. If those lights were visible to the engineer, that should have been a convincing indication of an emergency situation with an emergency vehicle stopped on the track.
I heard the locomotive horn at 5:11 (on the 8 minute tape). The cops ignored it. The hit happened around 5:30.
At 55mph, the horn sounded at .3 miles away from the crossing. The previous grade crossing is 1 1/4 miles away; so the horn at 5:11 is not for that.
At .3 miles away, it might not be possible to make out what's going on ahead. Perhaps the engineer first thought the lights were for a pull-over on 85, and he sounded the horn for any potential bystanders. Or perhaps he figured that there were cops up ahead, and they'd never be stupid enough to park on the tracks. Until he saw they were and did.
There was about 20 seconds for the cops to react. Except that they ignored the horn. And the oncoming train.
EuclidThat car on the track was also "lit up" with blue and red flashing lights, although it is not clear as to how they would appear to an approaching train. If those lights were visible to the engineer, that should have been a convincing indication of an emergency situation with an emergency vehicle stopped on the track.
I agree. Especially in consideration that any engineer would have "qualified" for that district, and would recognize something that dramatically out of the ordinary?
If they are supposed to be vigilant looking for indicators as faint as warning flares on the track, you'd expect that an emergency vehicle with the flashy things going on would be noticed.
Again that's no attempt to pull the blame from where it rightly belongs, just pondering peripherials.
Convicted One So, did the train not even stop here? Going by the clocks on the bodycam videos the officers are running down the tracks towards what is left of the squad vehicle, approx one minute after impact, and from what I can see there is no sign of any stopped train. I know it takes a while to stop, but it either must be a fairly short train, or it didn't stop...can't even see an EOT flashing in the distance.
The car may have disengaged from the locomotive and traveled some distance further before stopping.
Murphy SidingI don't think that the presece of flashing police lights would be enough to tell the engineer that there was a police car on the tracks.
Euclid Murphy Siding I don't think that the presece of flashing police lights would be enough to tell the engineer that there was a police car on the tracks. Why not? You have a straight track with flashing blue and red lights right on the track ahead. What more would an engineer need to tell him there was a police car on the track?
Murphy Siding I don't think that the presece of flashing police lights would be enough to tell the engineer that there was a police car on the tracks.
He would need your eyes - since you can diagnose everything from miles away from the incident.
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