EuclidI wonder if the PEB has a degree of bias in judging the current inflation.
I believe that is undoubtedly a factor. They are hoping the wolf at the door will run out of steam, and just go away. I wouldn't be surprised to see if they try to incorporate similar "optimism" when announcing the COLA for Social Security beneficiaries next month. (just my cynical self)
dpeltierCertainly for the railroad industry, things would be a lot simpler if government health care spending was not laundered through employers, but was handled directly between the government, it's citizens, and health care providers.
Most people and corporations would be better off. Or a hybrid where individual, government and businesses paid to-be-defined shares? These ideas have been floated for years but always blocked by certain political groups.
As to inflation, use COLAs prospectively and an adjustment to prior year retrospectively.
Most of our officer's bonuses were cut about a year or two back. Only "senior" level field managers still get them. That is, only the top boss at a terminal.
Senior management will always get a bonus (provided they meet set goals, usually easily met) because it's considered part of their compensation. At least until the big stockholders realize that senior management are employees, too.
Jeff
Electroliner 1935But when the CEO makes >200 x the median employee wage, it is pay for performance. Their wages are boosted by stock buy backs. What a racket.
Back when I was a company official for CSX, they purchased Texas Gas Co (which included a pipeline company, SeaLand Container Shipping, a stevedoring compnay that operated at multiple ports, both foreign and domestic as well as American Container Barge Line). CSX withheld officers 'bonus' payments that year because of the cost of that acquisition. A few years later when they sold off those properties, the company deemed the proceeds as a one time capital gain and not a part of the profits from which the officers bonus' were calculated. I am certain however, that the Board Room types got their bonus on both ends of the transactions.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
But when the CEO makes >200 x the median employee wage, it is pay for performance. Their wages are boosted by stock buy backs. What a racket.
jeffhergert If I understand the PEB's reasoning, they feel the current demand-inflation is an abberation and will subside back to "normal" levels.
If I understand the PEB's reasoning, they feel the current demand-inflation is an abberation and will subside back to "normal" levels.
I believe they just used inflation predictions from some federal agency that is tasked with predicting such things. Not that anybody can predict the future, but neither side appeared to have seriously disputed those independent predictions.
Most of the time in contracts past, we felt lucky if raises kept pace with employee health contributions.
I think this is where there is a serious difference of perspective between the two parties, and it is largely driven by the fact that a.) the cost of providing fringe benefits, specifically health care, keeps climbing much faster than other measures of inflation, and b.) most other private-sector workers have been losing benefits at a fast rate.
So from a worker's perspective, a raise in wages that keeps pace with inflation, coupled with an increase in how much they have to contribute to health care, seems like losing ground. From the employer's perspective, the total cost of wages and benefits is still increasing faster than inflation, and faster than the labor costs that it's competitors are paying.
These rising labor costs then have a spillover affect on other aspects of the workplace. The employer responds by focusing on labor productivity*, which sometimes means investments in labor-saving technology and sometimes means finding ways to keep workers working harder throughout the time they're getting paid for. In the case of TYE agreements, where pay is not always tied very closely to how long or how hard a person works, there's even more room to extract more labor for each dollar spent.
So now we have a situation where workers see that jobs are getting cut and feel that they're working harder for less pay, while the company still feels that they're paying more in labor costs for the same level of work. This was the trend even before "PSR", whatever that is.
Certainly for the railroad industry, things would be a lot simpler if government health care spending was not laundered through employers, but was handled directly between the government, it's citizens, and health care providers.
Dan
* At BNSF, there is a quarterly "all-hands call" where the executive team gives a presentation to and takes questions from all salaried employees via conference call and PowerPoint. I remember for a while, a few years back now, someone always included a waterfall chart in the presentation. The chart showed the growth of labor costs due to agreed-upon wages and benefit inflation, partially offset with "productivity improvement initiatives", resulting in a targeted total cost inflation - which I think was often in the neighborhood of general inflation indices like the CPI.
tree68 Euclid Since you asked me how I am compensating my employees so that their wages are keeping up with inflation, let me ask you... In other words, he doesn't have an answer...
Euclid Since you asked me how I am compensating my employees so that their wages are keeping up with inflation, let me ask you...
In other words, he doesn't have an answer...
Euclid Murphy Siding Blah, blah, blah. You've answered nothing, you've said nothing. Your response about 12 post back means nothing. You're just skirting questions. Our company has been raising wages to retain employees and to possibly hire some away from competitors who aren't keeping up with supply and demand issues. So what? Why did you ask me what I was doing about that issue? I am not opposed to raising wages. You must believe I am. What question have I skirted?
Murphy Siding Blah, blah, blah. You've answered nothing, you've said nothing. Your response about 12 post back means nothing. You're just skirting questions. Our company has been raising wages to retain employees and to possibly hire some away from competitors who aren't keeping up with supply and demand issues.
Blah, blah, blah. You've answered nothing, you've said nothing. Your response about 12 post back means nothing. You're just skirting questions.
Our company has been raising wages to retain employees and to possibly hire some away from competitors who aren't keeping up with supply and demand issues.
So what? Why did you ask me what I was doing about that issue? I am not opposed to raising wages. You must believe I am. What question have I skirted?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
CMStPnP Though I kind of suspect Euclid was confusing Inflation which is not hard to keep ahead of with hyper-inflation which is hard to keep in front of.
Though I kind of suspect Euclid was confusing Inflation which is not hard to keep ahead of with hyper-inflation which is hard to keep in front of.
Euclid's link was fom May. Now I'm seeing more articles about hoe the "Great Resignation" is becoming the "Great Regret" (or something along that line) because of many who left jobs for better pay and/or working conditoins/satisfaction and now are finding out the grass isn't any greener.
If I understand the PEB's reasoning, they feel the current demand-inflation is an abberation and will subside back to "normal" levels. (I personally think things will fall back some, but businesses will feel people have gotten "used to" higher prices enough that they don't have to go back to previous levels, even if possible.) Most of the time in contracts past, we felt lucky if raises kept pace with employee health contributions.
Euclid tree68 Euclid Since you asked me how I am compensating my employees so that their wages are keeping up with inflation, let me ask you... In other words, he doesn't have an answer... The question was from Murphy to me on the previous page. I answered it about 12 posts up, and he did not like the answer. So then I asked him the same question back about what he or his company would do about raising the company's wages to keep up with inflation. He never answered me back. Actually I have no idea why he even asked me the question in the first place. He never explained the reason for his question. But I certainly did answer it. I don't know why you edited my quote to eliminate the point it was making. The edited quote of me is meaningless and then you insert your own untrue meaning into the quote.
The question was from Murphy to me on the previous page. I answered it about 12 posts up, and he did not like the answer. So then I asked him the same question back about what he or his company would do about raising the company's wages to keep up with inflation. He never answered me back. Actually I have no idea why he even asked me the question in the first place. He never explained the reason for his question. But I certainly did answer it.
I don't know why you edited my quote to eliminate the point it was making. The edited quote of me is meaningless and then you insert your own untrue meaning into the quote.
zugmannI'm no executive, CEO, HR rep, or post hole digger, but I thought that is why we are supposed to get new contracts every 5 years. To re-negotiate compensation to in part help keep up with inflation.
No clue about how it works with railroads but I would have to guess you also have to keep current or retention of employees goes to crap. Though I kind of suspect Euclid was confusing Inflation which is not hard to keep ahead of with hyper-inflation which is hard to keep in front of. I think he accidently transposed the definitions in his post above..........or not?
Word Salad, with no dressing.
EuclidSince you asked me how I am compensating my employees so that their wages are keeping up with inflation, let me ask you...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
CMStPnPToo much like the Military with hassle...
But the military doesn't recruit you then spend the rest of your career trying to fire you...
And outside of combat, most GI's work a regular schedule.
zugmann I thought that is why we are supposed to get new contracts every 5 years. To re-negotiate compensation to in part help keep up with inflation.
zugmann CMStPnP He lost me a long time ago. Many years and a few user names ago? I'm no executive, CEO, HR rep, or post hole digger, but I thought that is why we are supposed to get new contracts every 5 years. To re-negotiate compensation to in part help keep up with inflation.
CMStPnP He lost me a long time ago.
Many years and a few user names ago?
I'm no executive, CEO, HR rep, or post hole digger, but I thought that is why we are supposed to get new contracts every 5 years. To re-negotiate compensation to in part help keep up with inflation.
Off with their heads! The beatings will continue until morale improves.
CMStPnPHe lost me a long time ago.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Murphy Siding Euclid Murphy Siding Euclid- On a thread a little while back, you mentioned that you did contract excavating work, or something similar (?) How are you compensating your employees so that their real wages are keeping up with inflation? It is possible for inflation to get so bad that an employer cannot raise wages enough to keep up with inflation. I have never had employees. If I had some now during this inflation, and believed they would quit without a raise to compensate for inflation, I would raise their pay within limits. Bear in mind that the inflation would also force me to raise the price of service to compensate for the falling value of money. This happens to all businesses. But raising your price always reduces demand for your product. Many, if not most businesses simply raise their prices to compensate for the rising costs resulting from falling value of money. Many probably feel they are entirely justified in raising their prices, and owe their customers no apology. They can raise their prices and not lose a penny to inflation. BUT—they can lose sales and/or lose customers. I am sure that some merchants are completely overlooking that fact. So, overall, it may be wiser for a merchant to absorb some of the inflation increase coming from their suppliers in order to retain customers. That may be more cost effective than passing all the inflation cost to the end user. Thus, my intention is to not raise customer prices for services to compensate for my rising costs caused by inflation. If I had employees, I would explain that to them and ask them for a similar sacrifice. Long, windy responses like this accentuate my belief that you have no idea how business works.
Euclid Murphy Siding Euclid- On a thread a little while back, you mentioned that you did contract excavating work, or something similar (?) How are you compensating your employees so that their real wages are keeping up with inflation? It is possible for inflation to get so bad that an employer cannot raise wages enough to keep up with inflation. I have never had employees. If I had some now during this inflation, and believed they would quit without a raise to compensate for inflation, I would raise their pay within limits. Bear in mind that the inflation would also force me to raise the price of service to compensate for the falling value of money. This happens to all businesses. But raising your price always reduces demand for your product. Many, if not most businesses simply raise their prices to compensate for the rising costs resulting from falling value of money. Many probably feel they are entirely justified in raising their prices, and owe their customers no apology. They can raise their prices and not lose a penny to inflation. BUT—they can lose sales and/or lose customers. I am sure that some merchants are completely overlooking that fact. So, overall, it may be wiser for a merchant to absorb some of the inflation increase coming from their suppliers in order to retain customers. That may be more cost effective than passing all the inflation cost to the end user. Thus, my intention is to not raise customer prices for services to compensate for my rising costs caused by inflation. If I had employees, I would explain that to them and ask them for a similar sacrifice.
Murphy Siding Euclid- On a thread a little while back, you mentioned that you did contract excavating work, or something similar (?) How are you compensating your employees so that their real wages are keeping up with inflation?
Euclid- On a thread a little while back, you mentioned that you did contract excavating work, or something similar (?) How are you compensating your employees so that their real wages are keeping up with inflation?
Long, windy responses like this accentuate my belief that you have no idea how business works.
Murphy SidingOn a thread a little while back, you mentioned that you did contract excavating work, or something similar (?) How are you compensating your employees so that their real wages are keeping up with inflation?
Murphy SidingLong, windy responses like this accentuate my belief that you have no idea how business works.
He lost me a long time ago. I get compensated for inflation as do most white collar folks do eventually, it just lags by a year or two.
jeffhergertI say the only reason they DO get some to hire out is the current wages. They are above almost all other blue collar jobs.
You would be surprised on that topic. My Nephew works for bathfitter installing shower tub overlays and earns $125-130,000 a year without any overtime or away from home. In my personal opinion Conductor and Engineers pay is ridiculously low given the exposure to the elements as well as the risk to life and limb. One reason I never persued a railroad career was the heavy handed rules based work atmosphere. Too much like the Military with hassle but not enough like it in the compensation area.
Raising prices in an inflationary environment isn't all that difficult..everyone has heard of inflation, and asking for a raise to compensate is justifiable and doesn't require a hard sell.
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