Most larger carriers are short drivers. Why are they short it is called simple drivers do not like being treated like well slaves to the company. When drivers are treated less than human they tend to leave. In the railroad industry we are seeing it in the workers pushing back on their own labor talks. They are threatening a strike for the first time in decades. Well over here our drivers literally can walk to a different carrier and get what they want. In this industry the smaller carriers tend to treat drivers better. All you have to do is look at the turnover rates of the mega carriers that are well over 100% compared to the smaller carriers where it can be under 20 percent a year. Our's was higher until the driver's where made aware that I was their person to speak to about their issues. Since the merger the fleets that were not under my help that got put under my help have seen turnover drop by 80% compared to the year before. Why drivers feel like they have someone that does care for them. Instead of being treated like a piece of meat in a seat they are treated like human beings. Heck I was told to spec out the interiors for maximum driver comfort this year on the 2023 truck order the first for the combined fleets. The next gen of trucks I went to the driver's asked them what they wanted from us in the trucks and if we could we did it. Well guess what in the next 2 years every truck is being replaced with what our drivers want trucks with factory installed microwaves 3K watt invertors true refrigarators 10 in thich memory foam mattresses with cooling foam APU's with oversized heating and AC systems for the drivers. Top of the line seats. All of this plus more. Could we have saved about 15k a truck by not putting in some of these items we are yes we could have. However when it costs 20K to replace a driver on average and some do leave do to equipment issues not being good enough. Just having trucks like these will save us money in the long term.
The FMCSA is about to make the IM loophole on overweights impossible to use. Why it is in the planning stages of requiring all loads to be able to carried at normal weights by a normal truck. So that means a max GVW of 80K unless your state has a grandfathered higher GVW already in place. They are not going to allow overweight containers out of railyards or out of the ports anymore unless permitted for their GVW that they are hauled at. Which means if someone loads a container to 67K throws it on a truck get ready for one hell of a permitting fee just to get it out of the port or railyard or have a bunch of people there to transload it onto 2 trailers.
Shadow the Cats ownerJust having trucks like these will save us money in the long term.
A concept seemingly lost on the railroads...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Here's something that should put how dependent the Mega carriers are on COFC traffic are nowadays. JB Hunt has over 109K containers in their fleet. 20 years ago they had less than 10K trailers total. Yet they employ less than 16K drivers for their fleet. What does that tell you and they are going to be up to 150K containers in less than 2 years. My drivers joke if they see a JB driver more than 500 miles away from a railyard going what happened JB train get lost. KLLM is another that is trying to grow way to fast right now. Reefer carriers are finding out that these reefer containers are not the game changer they were being sold on. Prime tried them and well they are not buying more. They even applied more weight savings to the last orders and are having massive structural issues with those and are washing their hands of them. KLLM shares their's with their partner in FFE and from what we have heard from shippers we share they are not happy with them for getting them. Remember this industry the shipper plays a huge part of the equation. If you can not scale as much as the next guy can they will cut you out of the load eqaution in a hurry. There are other carriers that would love to get their foot into the door of the major food makers or meat processors for that long term stable load count and rates.
Shadow the Cats owner The weight you see listed on them is a DRY meaning no fuel in the reefer tank at all. They carry 100 gallons of fuel at 6 pounds a gallon which is another 600 pounds of fuel that has to be accounted for. Then the chassis that they are on is right at 8K pounds. So you have a 22K pound empty box. Prime has 2022 trailers that we get into our locations from time to time hauling pellets that the customer wants under climate controls. They weigh in as they have drop and hook with us at under 16K full of fuel in the reefer tank. One of their IM speced trailers is right at 16K due to the larger fuel tank at 100 gallons. Sorry I have been dealing with these things for a while and know what they can LEGALLY haul for an 80K GVW. We do not allow and no daycab truck out there is 6K pounds less than a sleeper truck maybe 2K to 3K pounds less. Our spotter trucks are right at 14K as they carry blowers and PTO's to allow them to do whatever is needed. Our standard sleeper for van service is 16.5K wet weight out the door ready to go and our tanker fleet as we have them ligher in certain ways are under 16K. So trust me when I say I know my weights of these things. I see these things in my sleep on regulations let alone dealing with my drivers that complain about how heavy the loads tend to be.
The weight you see listed on them is a DRY meaning no fuel in the reefer tank at all. They carry 100 gallons of fuel at 6 pounds a gallon which is another 600 pounds of fuel that has to be accounted for. Then the chassis that they are on is right at 8K pounds. So you have a 22K pound empty box. Prime has 2022 trailers that we get into our locations from time to time hauling pellets that the customer wants under climate controls. They weigh in as they have drop and hook with us at under 16K full of fuel in the reefer tank. One of their IM speced trailers is right at 16K due to the larger fuel tank at 100 gallons. Sorry I have been dealing with these things for a while and know what they can LEGALLY haul for an 80K GVW. We do not allow and no daycab truck out there is 6K pounds less than a sleeper truck maybe 2K to 3K pounds less. Our spotter trucks are right at 14K as they carry blowers and PTO's to allow them to do whatever is needed. Our standard sleeper for van service is 16.5K wet weight out the door ready to go and our tanker fleet as we have them ligher in certain ways are under 16K. So trust me when I say I know my weights of these things. I see these things in my sleep on regulations let alone dealing with my drivers that complain about how heavy the loads tend to be.
Ok a few things..
US Diesel weighs in at about 6.8lbs/gal
Prime isn't the only intermodal game in town. They are also one of the smallest IM players. Last time I checked Prime only had 50 gal. tanks on their reefers trailers not 100. Also their newest ecofeatherweight reefer trailer only have a 30 gal. capacity..
So I don't know what kind of chassis you guys are using.. One there's no chassis currently in UIIA that weigh in at 8K lbs. The heaviest 53' chassis only weigh 7500 lbs. The common 53' chassis weight is 7250 lbs.. The newest chassis being built by Stoughton now weigh in at 7000 lbs. using galvanized steel on dual tired tandems. These chassis could lose even further weight going to super singles. Bringing their tare down to 6700 lbs.
Newer 53' reefer containers only have a tare of 13,600 lbs.
Let's crunch some numbers..
Your 16.5K lbs. OTR Tractor+15,840 lbs. reefer w/50 gal capacity inlcuding fuel=32,340 GCW
53'RC 118 gal capacity+Chassis(I'll use the heaviest chassis at 7500 lbs.)combo with fuel=21,902 lbs.
Now lets add a 14,500 lbs. tandem drive(6x4) daycab with 150 gal fuel capacity at 1020 lbs of diesel=15,520 lbs.
Total weight=37,442 lbs. at the high end. At the low end using even lighter chassis and daycab you're looking at around 35,560 lbs.
6,000 lbs.? ...Not today
Back in the days before I retired and I still actively tried to participate in start ups (dream on) to move this stuff by rail, JB Hunt used 53' chassis that weighed but 6,400 pounds.
They were specifically designed and built so that a JBH chassis could only be used with a JBH container.
Shadow the Cats ownerHeck I was told to spec out the interiors for maximum driver comfort this year on the 2023 truck order the first for the combined fleets. The next gen of trucks I went to the driver's asked them what they wanted from us in the trucks and if we could we did it. Well guess what in the next 2 years every truck is being replaced with what our drivers want trucks with factory installed microwaves 3K watt invertors true refrigarators 10 in thich memory foam mattresses with cooling foam APU's with oversized heating and AC systems for the drivers. Top of the line seats. All of this plus more.
BaltACDWhile backhauls CAN be most anything - there isn't that much of anything to utilize the available space that brings the processed 'farm products' to the large market areas. Remember the farm producing areas are almost by definition low population areas in relation the major markets
1) There was an adequate intermodal terminal in, or near, Amarillo.
2) The railroads had marketing departments that could identify and quantify the profit potential.
3) The railroads had marketing departments that could design the services needed to get the business. (Hint: just add it to existing trains going through Amarillo to keep the incremental costs down.)
4) The inevitable operating department “It Won’t Work” opposition can be overcome with reason and numbers.
A friendly reminder that this is not the TRUCKS Magazine Forum. If you're using the OTR industry as an example of labor relations that the railroads should emulate, that's on-topic, but keep it related to trains, please.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
tree68 Shadow the Cats owner Just having trucks like these will save us money in the long term A concept seemingly lost on the railroads...
Shadow the Cats owner Just having trucks like these will save us money in the long term
A problem is that, with OTR trucks, drivers take care of 'their' amenities and could be held responsible for things like wilful damage or "deferred maintenance". Just as management considers amenities secondary, they consider things like toilet maintenance secondary... and trainmen shouldn't be expected to clean up other peoples' messes, with their own materials and supplies, outside their paid hours.
I remember a proposal from the age of GE MATEs, when it became technically practical to build a locomotive consist like a towboat, with dorm space, recreational and entertainment facilities, a galley, etc. on top of the fuel 'module'. The idea at that time was to pay a crew just like on a towboat, for an extended time just as on a towboat, and have them run the consist as needed, where needed (we thought on what would soon be an 'iron ocean' kind of service -- how little we knew, and you might easily add how little we thought!) The idea behind this was that there are plenty of people who don't mind extended service 'away from home and family' in marine service, and this model of crew management might be extended to railroading. I'm sure many here will recognize the holes in this operating model, but it's relevant because of the assumed level of amenities needed to make it 'attractive enough' for the hiring, promotion, special unionization, etc. that would be needed to make it practicable as an alternative (at the time, this would have been fairly long-distance consists that would benefit from high speed, short turnaround, and assured out and return business).
OvermodThe idea at that time was to pay a crew just like on a towboat, for an extended time just as on a towboat, and have them run the consist as needed, where needed...
Steve's admonition notwithstanding, that's kind of the concept behind team drivers (often a married couple) in trucks. And those are folks who don't mind being away from home for extended periods of time, too.
Overmod... I remember a proposal from the age of GE MATEs, when it became technically practical to build a locomotive consist like a towboat, with dorm space, recreational and entertainment facilities, a galley, etc. on top of the fuel 'module'. The idea at that time was to pay a crew just like on a towboat, for an extended time just as on a towboat, and have them run the consist as needed, where needed (we thought on what would soon be an 'iron ocean' kind of service -- how little we knew, and you might easily add how little we thought!) The idea behind this was that there are plenty of people who don't mind extended service 'away from home and family' in marine service, and this model of crew management might be extended to railroading. I'm sure many here will recognize the holes in this operating model, but it's relevant because of the assumed level of amenities needed to make it 'attractive enough' for the hiring, promotion, special unionization, etc. that would be needed to make it practicable as an alternative (at the time, this would have been fairly long-distance consists that would benefit from high speed, short turnaround, and assured out and return business).
That must have been the antecedent to the T&E contract on the Georgia Railroad (CSX Georgia Subdivision) when I first worked on the Atlanta Division. Crews in 'Extra Board' service only HAD to be sent back to the home terminal of Augusta after having been away from their home terminal for 14 days. 14 DAYS Subsequently the contract was renegotiated to be 4 trips away from home. That service protected Atlanta to Milledgeville for Plant Harrlee coal trains and the return of empties, the Stone Mountain Dinner Train and Lithonia Ballast trains. With the implementation of the 4 trip contract - Augusta to Atlanta was trip #1, service on any of the other jobs was counted as trip #2 - If the trip was Harrlee coal train - moving the empties back to Atlanta would be trip #3. Trip #4 should be to Augusta OR if in any other service, the crew would be deadheaded home at the conclusion of trip #4 if its destination was not Augusta.
Subsequently the contract was renegotiated to be 4 trips away from home. That service protected Atlanta to Milledgeville for Plant Harrlee coal trains and the return of empties, the Stone Mountain Dinner Train and Lithonia Ballast trains. With the implementation of the 4 trip contract - Augusta to Atlanta was trip #1, service on any of the other jobs was counted as trip #2 - If the trip was Harrlee coal train - moving the empties back to Atlanta would be trip #3. Trip #4 should be to Augusta OR if in any other service, the crew would be deadheaded home at the conclusion of trip #4 if its destination was not Augusta.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
tree68 Overmod The idea at that time was to pay a crew just like on a towboat, for an extended time just as on a towboat, and have them run the consist as needed, where needed... ... that's kind of the concept behind team drivers (often a married couple) in trucks. And those are folks who don't mind being away from home for extended periods of time, too.
Overmod The idea at that time was to pay a crew just like on a towboat, for an extended time just as on a towboat, and have them run the consist as needed, where needed...
... that's kind of the concept behind team drivers (often a married couple) in trucks. And those are folks who don't mind being away from home for extended periods of time, too.
And you'd best believe that, just as in Balt's example, extended turns would rapidly turn into mandated turns for everybody, with the same tedious van rides and fleabag motels, the only difference being the vans go from train to train to train. Home? Companionship? Children? -- all peripheral to Doing More Faster (whether there's actually something to do with all that time engaged to be waiting or not, just so long as you don't use any kind of entertainment while you wait...)
At least I have the excuse that you had full facilities, including what was then a predecessor of wireless connectivity (and today would be reasonably fast satellite Internet and VOIP) for everyone not actively on duty in the cab. It would be fun indeed to see the insurance arrangements for bringing spouses on board.
If we ever transition to an 'iron ocean' model of dispatching and operating (leaving the ownership business out of it) you might actually see some determination of 'teams' -- but expect them to draw pay whether they're 'getting rest' in the dorm or not. That was the chief stumbling block then, and it's really the chief one now. Remember why we never had corridor tenders over here?
In the 90's Team service was needed to beat the old Santa Fe Q service level. Nowadays a solo driver can just about do it between the Midwest and West Coast. Why gone are the days where the Z trains run at 70 MPH track speed they are restricted to 60 or slower. I paced one coming home from work today it was nothing but UPS and FedEx on the thing it was doing 40 MPH on the old Transcon. 30 years ago that thing would have been screaming along at 70 MPH overpowered as heck with 22K horses pulling 4 to 5K tons maximum. Now they are lucky to have 13K HP and are dragging 8K tons. Service times to the West Coast are around 60 hours it was 48 before. A good solo can do it in 54 a team is going to be there in less than 48 without even breaking a sweat. My carrier is offering next day service in 30 hours from Chicago to SLC and since the merger we are going into and out of CA and 48 with team service. PSR has destroyed the Premium intermodal market that the old Santa Fe had. Why do you think UPS is scrambling to hire teams at this time. They need the SPEED that BNSF no longer is willing to deliver anymore. PSR is going to drive away the highest paying customers from the railroads in the IM game. That means no Fresh meat or other pershiables will more than likely be hauled again for a long time on the rails people. Why to sensitive to delays. Most meat has around a 3 week shelf life if fresh that means if the railroad is taking a week to get it to the DC that store has less than a week to get it sold.
OvermodIt would be fun indeed to see the insurance arrangements for bringing spouses on board.
I would opine that they would be fully qualified crew members. Depending on how the equipment was configured, you wouldn't even have to stop for crew changes...
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