jeffhergertA different kind of movement. Jeff
Jeff
In comparison to what I was smelling being dumped into the Allegheny River at FY Tower in Pittsburgh - manure was relatively higher on the purfume scale.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
A different kind of movement.
rdamon jeffhergert It's simply offal.
jeffhergert It's simply offal.
It's simply offal.
Those "waste" liquids are most likely blood and lard/animal fat, both edible and inedible.
The actual waste products is usually dried and shipped out in covered hoppers by rail, or by semi trailer hoppers, the same kind used to haul grain. I believe it goes to be used as fertilizer.
In the old days, the guts, et al, might be moved in gondolas if the slaughter house didn't have it's own rendering plant on site. I've read accounts from switchmen handling such moves. It's simply offal.
I have a soft cover book on the railroads of Omaha/Council Bluffs. Back in the day there was a manure movement from the South Omaha stockyards to a nearby station where it was collected to be used for fertilizer.
York1About 50 miles away from me is the sixth largest meat-packing plant in the U.S. It sits directly adjacent to a double BNSF mainline running diagonally through the photo. However, the only train service to the plant is some tank cars that haul certain waste products away. On the middle right side of the photo, notice the number of truck trailers. I imagine the plant deals with trucks and not trains because the trucking companies give them the best service for the best price.
It sits directly adjacent to a double BNSF mainline running diagonally through the photo. However, the only train service to the plant is some tank cars that haul certain waste products away.
On the middle right side of the photo, notice the number of truck trailers. I imagine the plant deals with trucks and not trains because the trucking companies give them the best service for the best price.
Be thankful that the waste liquids are being hauled away - I worked B&O's FY Tower that was bolted to the 33rd Street Bridge over the Allegheny River in Pittsburgh in the pre EPA days where the processing (rendering) plant would pump those waste fluids into the river at 6 PM daily - if you hadn't eaten your lunch before 6 PM you would not be able to get it to go down and stay down after 6 PM.
Many farmers also drive OTR during the downtime to make extra money.
About 50 miles away from me is the sixth largest meat-packing plant in the U.S.
York1 John
Ulrich... And farming and trucking are very much intertwined. Show me a farmer and I'll show you someone who is comfortable around heavy equipment and likely owns one to four trucks... i.e. customers who own their own means of transportation may be less inclined to use rail in any event.
And farming and trucking are very much intertwined. Show me a farmer and I'll show you someone who is comfortable around heavy equipment and likely owns one to four trucks... i.e. customers who own their own means of transportation may be less inclined to use rail in any event.
The farm YouTube channels I have been watching recently - in addition to owning and using multiple 'heavy duty' tractors, grain carts to recieve harvested crop from the harvesters as well as multiple crop heads for the various crops they have planted. The multiple and various storage facilities the farmers have built at their own expense so they can 'play the market' for the sale of their crops which they transport from their own storage to processing centers in their own tractor trailer grain hauling equipment. One of the farms has BNSF trackage running either through it or adjacent to the property line. One of the farms is over 2000 acres and plants seed corn, commercial corn, soybeans, cattle and hogs. Another farms 10000 acres - spring wheat, winter wheat, rye and field peas.
The 18 wheelers they own not only take product to market but are also used to bring seed and fertilizer to the farm.
BaltACD greyhounds ... Backhauls can be almost anything. You can put a non-refrigerated load in refrigerated equipment just fine. While backhauls CAN be most anything - there isn't that much of anything to utilize the available space that brings the processed 'farm products' to the large market areas. Remember the farm producing areas are almost by defination low population areas in relation the major markets.
greyhounds ... Backhauls can be almost anything. You can put a non-refrigerated load in refrigerated equipment just fine.
Backhauls can be almost anything. You can put a non-refrigerated load in refrigerated equipment just fine.
While backhauls CAN be most anything - there isn't that much of anything to utilize the available space that brings the processed 'farm products' to the large market areas. Remember the farm producing areas are almost by defination low population areas in relation the major markets.
greyhounds... Backhauls can be almost anything. You can put a non-refrigerated load in refrigerated equipment just fine.
greyhoundsRailroads run right by the plants and make little or no effort to get the business.
If you can put together 100 car unit trains, they might be willing to talk. But remember that the vaunted unit trains of produce from the west coast are now carload freight.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Farmer John has been sold to Springfield. They announced the closing of the Vernon, Ca. Plant next year. They didn't mention the fate of the famous mural around the plant at the corner of Bandini & Soto st. in Vernon.
daveklepperPlenty of opportunity for railroads to handle processed meet to consumer area a long distance from meet pricessing plants. Fish could be a back-haul.
That's for sure. The US produces great volumes of red meat and chicken. The production is concentrated in facilities that are long distances from the consumers in coastal population centers. Unlike livestock, the killed meat goes from concentrated origins to concentrated distribution facilities.
There's also significant export volume.
The meat and poultry move overwhelmingly by truck. Railroads run right by the plants and make little or no effort to get the business.
UlrichLivestock and meat processing is a far more localized industry than it was years ago. Guelph is a large processing hub for Southern Ontario. I see the same cattle trucks multiple times every day, running the same routes..presumably they're picking up cattle within 100 miles of Guelph and then hauling them to Better Beef Co. for slaughter and processing. Better this way I suppose than having these poor critters in transit for a number of days.
Effective, controlable refrigeration changed the industry from destination processing to origin processing.
The TV show Rawhide glorified the cattle drive from Texas to the railhead in Kansas. From the railhead in Kansas the stock go transported to all the Eastern market areas on the hoof for processing to the consumer. These days the stock is trucked to a 'nearby' processing plant and the final product leaves the processing plant and then moves in controlled refrigerated vehicles to the consumers point of purchase.
Livestock and meat processing is a far more localized industry than it was years ago. Guelph is a large processing hub for Southern Ontario. I see the same cattle trucks multiple times every day, running the same routes..presumably they're picking up cattle within 100 miles of Guelph and then hauling them to Better Beef Co. for slaughter and processing. Better this way I suppose than having these poor critters in transit for a number of days.
Plenty of opportunity for railroads to handle processed meet to consumer area a long distance from meet pricessing plants. Fish could be a back-haul.
Right!!! Historically cattle-cars were common 100 years ago, when nearly all of the USA's meet processing took place in Chicago, and the Chicago Stock Yards occupied a large area, including several railroad freight branches and one dedicated passenger elevated rairoad branch, all gone.
OvermodWhy could the feeding and watering systems used on horse cars not be adapted for use with other stock types? 'Misting' evaporative cooling could keep temperatures down.
1) The steer/heifer is born on a place alternatively called a ranch, or a farm, or a “cow-calf operation.”
2) Said steer/heifer is left with its mother for nurturing until it reaches a certain age and size. Several such animals will reach the required age and size at roughly the same time.
3) The human running things will then call a trucker to come pick up the calves. It is common for the trucker to make pick-ups at several ranches/farms/cow-calf operations to fill out the load.
4) The trucker then goes like Hell (time is of the essence) to a feed lot located near the slaughter facility.
5) The feed lot will bring the beef critter to slaughter weight. It will do this by feeding a blend that will produce the marbling in the beef desired by consumers.
6) The beef critter will then get its 2nd truck ride. A short haul from the feed lot to slaughter. A steer will lose one hundred pounds in the first 24 hours of transit. There is no good way to habituate a beef animal to transportation. Transport stresses the animals, and they lose weight as a result. Since people have spent a lot of time, effort and money putting weight on the animal, this weight loss is to be avoided as much as possible. So, they keep the truck ride as short as they can.
Why could the feeding and watering systems used on horse cars not be adapted for use with other stock types?
'Misting' evaporative cooling could keep temperatures down.
Los Angeles Rams Guy My big regret is the loss of the Farmer John's traffic (hogs) out to their facility in LA on Union Pacific. I remember being on the UP portion of the Overland Route mainline back in the mid-80s and seeing the livestock cars at various pens in Nebraska and have the pics too. The question I'll always have is why neither CNW and/or ICG couldn't have participated in this traffic over the CBLUF gateway. Keep in mind, there are several counties in Iowa that are well-known for hog production; Delaware County (on the now-CN Iowa Division mainline) is one of them.
My big regret is the loss of the Farmer John's traffic (hogs) out to their facility in LA on Union Pacific. I remember being on the UP portion of the Overland Route mainline back in the mid-80s and seeing the livestock cars at various pens in Nebraska and have the pics too. The question I'll always have is why neither CNW and/or ICG couldn't have participated in this traffic over the CBLUF gateway. Keep in mind, there are several counties in Iowa that are well-known for hog production; Delaware County (on the now-CN Iowa Division mainline) is one of them.
Hogs dont have to stink, Free range pigs have no smell what so ever
Los Angeles Rams GuyI would love to see a return of livestock movement to rails as much as anyone but without the big livestock processing centers you had back in the day (Chicago, Omaha, Kansas City, Dallas/Ft Worth, South St Paul, et al) I just don't know where/how you could do it. I do wonder, however, with the persistent drought conditions that exist in some parts of Texas, if you could move livestock to other locations by rail for grazing (or if it would even make sense to do so). My big regret is the loss of the Farmer John's traffic (hogs) out to their facility in LA on Union Pacific. I remember being on the UP portion of the Overland Route mainline back in the mid-80s and seeing the livestock cars at various pens in Nebraska and have the pics too. The question I'll always have is why neither CNW and/or ICG couldn't have participated in this traffic over the CBLUF gateway. Keep in mind, there are several counties in Iowa that are well-known for hog production; Delaware County (on the now-CN Iowa Division mainline) is one of them.
Some comments about livestock - Note the percieved difference between cattle and hogs.
https://youtu.be/V52_PZB22JM?t=598
I would love to see a return of livestock movement to rails as much as anyone but without the big livestock processing centers you had back in the day (Chicago, Omaha, Kansas City, Dallas/Ft Worth, South St Paul, et al) I just don't know where/how you could do it. I do wonder, however, with the persistent drought conditions that exist in some parts of Texas, if you could move livestock to other locations by rail for grazing (or if it would even make sense to do so).
oldmancatAttn: greyhounds. Several years ago there was a discussion: "Why did the railroads stop cattle trains?" You noted that you had met a gentleman named William Gentleman. He is a prominent figure in a history I'm writing, and you are the first person I've found who actually met him. I'd like to talk with you. What is the best way we can get together? Thank you
My email is rabbiteer@sbcglobal.net. Feel free to contact me regarding this subject.
Bill Gentleman actually got the Federal Government to agree to waive the 28 hour rule. This rule required that livestock moving by rail be let out into pens for food and water every 28 hours. An exception was that livestock that would reach their final destination within 36 hours could move on through. This rule did not apply to truck movement of livestock.
The waiver was contingent on: 1) The livestock could move freely about in the railcar, 2) The livestock had access to food and water in the railcar. Neither of these conditions was a significant problem.
Although I am generally loathe to conceed any freight market to trucking, I don't see much opportunity for rail transport of livestock.
chutton01 SD70Dude Does Australia still have livestock trains on some routes? Well, they have livestock trains of a sort...
SD70Dude Does Australia still have livestock trains on some routes?
Does Australia still have livestock trains on some routes?
Well, they have livestock trains of a sort...
Recall several years ago reading an article about a shipment of 100K sheep from Australia to Saudi Arabia that was rejected account excessive mortality of the cargo.
BaltACD Overmod I don't see why anyone would waste time arranging to ship cattle on the hoof when the same amount of money applied to handle strategic packaged meat products could be far more lucrative and far less risky. We've had whole threads on how to go about doing that. When you don't have the technology to handle a packaged meat product, you do what you have to do with the product and technology you have.
Overmod I don't see why anyone would waste time arranging to ship cattle on the hoof when the same amount of money applied to handle strategic packaged meat products could be far more lucrative and far less risky. We've had whole threads on how to go about doing that.
We've had whole threads on how to go about doing that.
When you don't have the technology to handle a packaged meat product, you do what you have to do with the product and technology you have.
Yes, important to remember that an iced refrigerator car could only get the inside temperature to a few degrees above freezing. It wasn't until the development of mechanical reefers that you had cars that could be cooled to below freezing. Once that technology came along after WW2, meat packing companies could slaughter the cattle locally, and ship the frozen sides of beef to a main processing plant. Before that, you had to ship the live cattle to end plant.
It's the same technology that created the boom in consumer frozen food in the same time. Iceboxes couldn't keep frozen food frozen, it could only keep them cold. Mechanical refrigerators with a freezer allowed the creation of a market for frozen pizzas, TV dinners, etc.
p.s. Since the old Western TV shows came up, it's kinda similar to the question 'why did the big cattle drives of the 1870s end?'. When the UP was completed, it's line was the only line anywhere near the big cattle raising areas - particularly Texas. Ranchers drove their cattle from Texas to Dodge City Kansas so the cattle could then be sent east by rail. Once railroads reached Texas, there was no need for the long cattle drives to the railhead.
54light15 I knew that Clint was on that show, but I didn't know about Martin Milner. Also featuring the ever-sinister Dan Duryea. I miss all those Westerns from my childhood and there were so many.
I knew that Clint was on that show, but I didn't know about Martin Milner. Also featuring the ever-sinister Dan Duryea. I miss all those Westerns from my childhood and there were so many.
Martin Milner wasn't one of the regulars, he was a guest star along with Dan Duryea on that particular episode.
Oh yeah, the TV Western craze that began in the 50's and didn't begin to fade until the late 60's. "Bonanza" and "Gunsmoke" were the last survivors.
BaltACDFETV (Family Entertainment TV on cable) Broadcasts Rawhide at 2 PM & 3 PM Eastern daily.
Don't I know it! Lady Firestorm's addicted to "Rawhide!" She never saw the show growing up but she's making up for lost time!
On the other hand "Rawhide" was required viewing at my house, Mom was crazy about Westerns!
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