tree68 charlie hebdo You think tobacco smoking is harmless? You can show real studies showing MJ is more harmful physically than tobacco? From my point of view, it's the lack of objective information on the effects of MJ that is the problem. We know pretty well what alcohol does to the senses, reaction time, etc. Although the "legal intoxication" levels vary, the effects are basically known. Not so much for MJ. So the question is "how high is too high?" Right now it's pretty much an all or nothing proposition. Add to that the fact that MJ tends to hang in the body longer. I've read that the making of MJ into an illegal substance was politically motivated. The folks who used tended to fall into a group the powers that be didn't like very well, so making their choice to partake an illegal activity was one way to remove them from the voting pool.
charlie hebdo You think tobacco smoking is harmless? You can show real studies showing MJ is more harmful physically than tobacco?
From my point of view, it's the lack of objective information on the effects of MJ that is the problem. We know pretty well what alcohol does to the senses, reaction time, etc. Although the "legal intoxication" levels vary, the effects are basically known.
Not so much for MJ. So the question is "how high is too high?" Right now it's pretty much an all or nothing proposition.
Add to that the fact that MJ tends to hang in the body longer.
I've read that the making of MJ into an illegal substance was politically motivated. The folks who used tended to fall into a group the powers that be didn't like very well, so making their choice to partake an illegal activity was one way to remove them from the voting pool.
The War on Drugs, was also the War on Learning anything about drugs and many other things.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Well, there are methods to administer cannabis that don't involve smoke in the lungs -- methods that would cause poisoning when tobacco/nicotine are the active agents in comparable quantity, and discomfort when in lower quantity. CBD oil is touted as a tonic; nicotine oil is a potent and dangerous insecticide.
When I was in my early teens, my grandfather closed his EENT office in Kingston, and all the contents were shipped down to be stored in our basement. In the '20s and '30s, ethical drug houses like Parke Davis 'advertised' by putting out informative color brochures about physiological problems, with a page on the back cover touting whatever it was they produced that was effective on the conditions described. Thus I came across a gaudily-covered booklet called "Dramatic Episodes of the Heart" -- which I took to be some sort of strange religious tract or pulp magazine until I started reading it. This was all about various kinds of problems with heart action. When I got to the back I was surprised to find that the touted nostrum was something called 'Neurosine" which I had never heard of. It was strange that this miracle potion was effective on a great many of the conditions described in the booklet... conditions that were difficult to treat in the early '70s, let alone with minimal side effects.
Now, there was a cut of a Neurosine bottle on that back panel, done as a line illustration, but if you squinted, you could almost make out the ingredients. In fact if you squinted enough at just the right distance you could make out the active ingredient. Extract of cannabis sativa.
Now what you may find amusing was that, in a comparatively short time, the Reefer Madness crowd was prominently claiming that marihoochie had no legitimate medical applications. And I suspect that in order to fabricate the necessary 'truth', Neurosine had to go, and its memory be stuffed as far down the memory hole as possible.
Now, on the other hand, researchers have, or claim to have, scientific evidence that cannabis deleteriously affects the developing brain, and that it should be restricted or forbidden until users are well into their 20s. I have no reason to dispute their findings.
Meanwhile up in New Jersey cannabis products are legal (sort of, they're still working out the nuances) but the plastic bags to take those products home with are illegal!
Maybe that's why NJ has such a dynamic model railroading culture. Everything else is illegal as well!
OvermodNow, on the other hand, researchers have, or claim to have, scientific evidence that cannabis deleteriously affects the developing brain, and that it should be restricted or forbidden until users are well into their 20s. I have no reason to dispute their findings.
Likely under age 15 is neurologically unwise. The product sold legally here has a much higher THC potency than the stuff back in the 60s. More like hashish.
My mom was a heavy smoker who died of lung cancer.. a slow drawn out death over months where her muscles atrophied until she eventually suffocated. My dad died the same way last year, although fortunately he remained of sound mind and could thus opt for a medical assisted death, at least avoiding the hell my mom went through in her last weeks.. I'm no medical doctor or expert in that field, but I'm not going to put anythng into my body that may cause it harm or which may inhibit my ability to think or earn a living...I don't want my kids to go through what I did with respect to end of life care. If one can do so.. avoid alcohol, tobacco and any kind of drug.. they're just not worth it.
You don't even have to be a smoker to get lung cancer.
charlie hebdo n012944 zugmann n012944 Railroads will struggle to fill jobs as long as there is not some sort of drug testing that only checks if you are currently impaired approved. The desire to toke up is just to important to the current generation. Sure. That must be it. Even if they got rid of the Mary Jane testing, the loss of many regular jobs and draconian attendance policies will keep people from staying, even if they can hire on without the Marijuana testing. It will keep new hires from replacing those choose to move on. We, as a county, has spent the last 30 years saying that smoking one leaf (tobacco) is bad, however another leaf is okay. You think tobacco smoking is harmless? You can show real studies showing MJ is more harmful physically than tobacco?
n012944 zugmann n012944 Railroads will struggle to fill jobs as long as there is not some sort of drug testing that only checks if you are currently impaired approved. The desire to toke up is just to important to the current generation. Sure. That must be it. Even if they got rid of the Mary Jane testing, the loss of many regular jobs and draconian attendance policies will keep people from staying, even if they can hire on without the Marijuana testing. It will keep new hires from replacing those choose to move on. We, as a county, has spent the last 30 years saying that smoking one leaf (tobacco) is bad, however another leaf is okay.
zugmann n012944 Railroads will struggle to fill jobs as long as there is not some sort of drug testing that only checks if you are currently impaired approved. The desire to toke up is just to important to the current generation. Sure. That must be it. Even if they got rid of the Mary Jane testing, the loss of many regular jobs and draconian attendance policies will keep people from staying, even if they can hire on without the Marijuana testing.
n012944 Railroads will struggle to fill jobs as long as there is not some sort of drug testing that only checks if you are currently impaired approved. The desire to toke up is just to important to the current generation.
Sure. That must be it.
Even if they got rid of the Mary Jane testing, the loss of many regular jobs and draconian attendance policies will keep people from staying, even if they can hire on without the Marijuana testing.
It will keep new hires from replacing those choose to move on. We, as a county, has spent the last 30 years saying that smoking one leaf (tobacco) is bad, however another leaf is okay.
You think tobacco smoking is harmless? You can show real studies showing MJ is more harmful physically than tobacco?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy SidingI gotta be honest. I don't see where anyone suggested that tobacco smoking is harmless.
I didn't infer the poster was saying tobacco smoking is harmless. What I did get from his comment was the basic illogic of how the fanatical crusade against tobacco products just doesn't square with the almost evangelic promotion of cannabis products.
You've got to smoke 'em both, right? (For the most part.)
Mary Jane's got just as many nasty's in it as tobbaco does, if not more, right?
So why is one so bad, and the other so "good?" It makes no sense, not to me anyway.
Legalizing weed seems like more of a tax gimmick than anything else.
Backshop You don't even have to be a smoker to get lung cancer.
That's true, but the odds go way up if you are. May as well put the odds in your favor if you can. Suffocating to death slowly as your lungs fail is less fun than it sounds.
SD70Dude How did Prohibition work out? How many people would support resurrecting that law?
How did Prohibition work out? How many people would support resurrecting that law?
Recent studies suggest that consumption of alcohol in the beginning fell to 30% of pre-prohibition levels. Consumption later rose back to about 70% of pre-prohibition levels.
Some suggest, that despite headlines of major crime events-St. Valentine's Day Massacre etc., it may not have led to an overall increase in organized crime. Just another line of "business" to get involved in.
And no, most people would not like to see prohibition reinstated.
Jeff
jeffhergert SD70Dude How did Prohibition work out? How many people would support resurrecting that law? Recent studies suggest that consumption of alcohol in the beginning fell to 30% of pre-prohibition levels. Consumption later rose back to about 70% of pre-prohibition levels. Some suggest, that despite headlines of major crime events-St. Valentine's Day Massacre etc., it may not have led to an overall increase in organized crime. Just another line of "business" to get involved in. And no, most people would not like to see prohibition reinstated. Jeff
Whenever you make illegal something that a sizable portion of the population is willing to pay for - you have opened up the business opportunity for organized crime. Prohibition was the vehicle that highlighted the potential of 'big business' to the organized crime element. Once prohibition was repealed the criminal element floated toward gambling and for the most part created Las Vegas; once gambling became socially acceptable organized crime bowed out of the enterprise as there were too many governmental agencies involved in policing the action. When the 'War on Drugs' was announced, is made the illegal drug trade a worldwide affair. The Columbian cartels, the Mexican cartels, the Taliban and many other organizations are in the enterprise today and the totally dwarf anything the US 'organized crime' elements could even dream of.
Business opportunity and ruthless market share enforcement - that's the ticket!
n01***We, as a county, has spent the last 30 years saying that smoking one leaf (tobacco) is bad,
Murphy: Certainly strongly implied. Or is he thinking the Surgeon General should have ignored the evidence?
Flintlock: Tobacco contains carcinogenic tars that are not found in MJ. And tobacco often leads to COPD, a major debilitating and frequently fatal condition. MJ is not to be taken lightly, but I don't know anyone who only used MJ who suffered from lung cancer. Not so with cigarettes.
It's more about not having drivers of vehicles or rail locomotives intoxicated on drugs or alcohol.
Flintlock76I didn't infer the poster was saying tobacco smoking is harmless. What I did get from his comment was the basic illogic of how the fanatical crusade against tobacco products just doesn't square with the almost evangelic promotion of cannabis products.
There's also the issue that cannabis is being touted for healthy benefits as well as "getting high". And as I noted there actually are some prospective advantages, although I susped nowhere near what some of the claims are.
The amusing thing is that it's still a scheduled-drug Federal crime... just that enforcement is selective (e.g. through banking-system prohibitions). You'd think fixing this would have been a priority for the current House. Perhaps it is and they just haven't worked the legislation through for approval yet.
I suspect some of the reason for smoking was that it was convenient to package the covert stuff in nickel bags, and consume it on the sly or in private by simple rolling. When provided via "legal" business, THC-containing material does not have to be smoked.
Mary Jane's got just as many nasties in it as tobacco does, if not more, right?
It would be pathetically easy to run the necessary lab tests. It would be slightly less easy -- but now that it's legal, perhaps less secretly -- to look at long-term incidence of lung cancer or other complications in various levels of tokers compared with their coffin-nail counterparts. I won't hold my breath for the results, though.
OvermodSmoking by lighting up is a stupid excuse for atomizing 'psychogenic substances' for inhalation. Freebasing involves a source of clean combustion for this purpose; nobody pours 7% solution on wacky tobaccy to stack the high. The 'correct' answer is that you use the oil or extract in vape form if you want to toke, or put it in brownies or use that pathetic CBD oil otherwise
I get the impression that few on this post have much if any first-hand knowledge.
CBD oil Is a silly nostrum no better than snake oil for medicinal use and it lacks the euphoria and muscle relaxant effects of THC. THC can be used more safely in gummies.
charlie hebdoI get the impression that few on this post have much if any first-hand knowledge.
"Don't ask, don't tell!"
The problem with today's marijuana is there is no control on THC levels (unlike "proof" of alcohol and tar/nicotine levels in cigs) The higher THC level, the higher chance of mental issues like schizoprenia.
The THC levels in gummies are clearly provided.
Another thing to consider is how many cigarettes does a moderate user smoke compared to how many joints are toked. There's a lot more volume of cigarette smoke going into the lungs than marijuana.
(Throws switch in what will likely be a vain attempt to get the train off the MJ/ CBD siding and and back onto the PEB recommendation mainline.......)
What are you talking about? Where did I say anything about smoking tobacco being harmless? I didn't "imply" anything else. I was pointing out the irony of our current situation on smoking.
BTW, it doesn't have to be "more harmful physically" to be bad for someone to consume.....
https://www.lung.org/quit-smoking/smoking-facts/health-effects/marijuana-and-lung-health
https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/31/2/280
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 I was pointing out the irony of our current situation on smoking.
Irony oh irony! Wherefore art thou irony?
As I said, if one doesn't care for "smoking" they can use edibles.
charlie hebdo n012944 I was pointing out the irony of our current situation on smoking. Irony oh irony! Wherefore art thou irony? As I said, if one doesn't care for "smoking" they can use edibles.
Cool story. Judging from the smells on my many walks down the Las Vegas strip, many people are not making that choice.
However, my point still stands, regardless of your failed attempt to say I was "implying" anything else.
The railroads will struggle to find people who are both willing to work an unconventional schedule, and be unable to enjoy the wacky tabacky in their off time. As i said, if a test comes out that is like an alcohol test, only showing if they are currently under the influence, that will make a huge difference.
Railroads in 5 years : "Good news candidate, you can now enjoy Marijuana when you have a few days off!"
Candidate: "Yay!"
Railroad: "But about you having a few days off....."
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
n012944Cool story. Judging from the smells on my many walks down the Las Vegas strip, many people are not making that choice.
I wouldn't know about Vegas. Not a place I would be caught dead hanging out unless I were a gambling addict or lover of entertainment by has beens.
Looking back I wonder what your initial point was?
charlie hebdo n012944 Cool story. Judging from the smells on my many walks down the Las Vegas strip, many people are not making that choice. I wouldn't know about Vegas. Not a place I would be caught dead hanging out unless I were a gambling addict or lover of entertainment by has beens. Looking back I wonder what your initial point was?
n012944 Cool story. Judging from the smells on my many walks down the Las Vegas strip, many people are not making that choice.
I believe it can be. Is not the drug CBD a duistillation of the weed's mdicinal properties?
Murphy SidingMy question about marijuana is, if it's a good medicine for treating some things- which it seems to be- why can't it be administered in a pill or shot form, like other drugs?
I would offer that more people are interested in the recreational aspect of MJ than in the medicinal aspect.
The demonization of MJ has resulted in a dearth of research into actual beneficial uses. Eventually, hopefully, such uses will become more apparent as research does occur. It appears there may be many, and perhaps the appropriate extracts will be made.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 The demonization of MJ has resulted in a dearth of research into actual beneficial uses.
Personally, I can't stand marijuana, smoked or otherwise -- not from 'not inhaling' in college years, but just because I dislike it and what it does to people who overindulge in it. I'm told that once you get past the tunnel vision and the microamnesia the high can be interesting. Never cared to do that.
I concur that CBD is 'snake oil', of a particularly irritatingly-promoted kind. Whether it contains the demonstrably-active components of the extract that was in Neurosine remains to be established, at least to me. I don't propose to become an expert in cannabinoid pharmacology, so most of what I know will be what I read.
[/diversion], now we should respect the attempt to get back to PEB-related matters in this thread...
charlie hebdoI wouldn't know about Vegas. Not a place I would be caught dead hanging out unless I were a gambling addict or lover of entertainment by has beens.
Same here. A friend of mine who went there and wasn't impressed said "Vegas is a good place if you're a drinker, gambler, or womanizer. If you're not in those categories do yourself a favor and stay home."
OK, back to the original topic. Just my
charlie hebdo n012944 Cool story. Judging from the smells on my many walks down the Las Vegas strip, many people are not making that choice. I wouldn't know about Vegas. Not a place I would be caught dead hanging out unless I were a gambling addict or lover of entertainment by has beens.
So you are boring, got it. I saw The Weekend at Allegiant stadium on Saturday. If you think he is a "has been", you might want to crawl back into your hole, as the world has passed you by.
charlie hebdo Looking back I wonder what your initial point was?
It was spelled out quite clearly in the post that you cut off the last quote from. However, since you somehow thought I implied that tobacco was "harmless", I am not surprised that you missed it.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.