[quote user="BaltACD"]
samfp1943
Sort of an interesting side-note(?)....The video referenced by the Threads O.P. on the concurrently runing Thread in regards to the "...BNSF's employes's Wives Story... ". Has a video referenced; that says [IIRC] that in 2021 the BNSF proported to have earned $6 Billion dollars(?) as a railroad... Not to shabby, if accurate, for ole Warren B's railroad... An stil, apparently, Union Contract Free ?
Has a video referenced; that says [IIRC] that in 2021 the BNSF proported to have earned $6 Billion dollars(?) as a railroad... Not to shabby, if accurate, for ole Warren B's railroad... An stil, apparently, Union Contract Free ?
Warren has not abrograted any Union contracts on BNSF. Union contracts with BNSF and all the other participating carriers expired 3 years ago. Pay rates and work rules that were in effect with those contracts when they expired are being continued by the carriers. ie. pay rates are still at a pre-Covid level, pre-inflation level.
True to form the Carriers representatives in the negotiations continue to make bad faith proposals just like they have for the past three years. Warren's and the other carriers Freight Rates have not stayed at the same level they were when the union contract expired. Ch Ch Ch Ching!
[/quote] Thanks, for the note about Contract abrogation, and the the information as to pay rates...
After re-watching the "Wives Protest Video" it seems that their main grip is in BNSF's establishing their "new" "Hi-Viz" set of attendance, and its attendant 'point rules'. I have no idea as to what all those rules may entail onan employee, but they seem to have certainly 'steamed' up the family side of the employment calculation (?)....
Familial Partners ( wives, Gf's, significant others(?), and so on)....are an important part of the employment calculations; " recall the old saw: "....Haqppy wife, Happy life!..."
Seems the ' brain trust down at BNSF HQ has really 'stepped off in it', where their employment interests are concerned, IMHO..
Thanks, everyone. Very interesting. JayBee, that fact book is great!
Still in training.
Lithonia Operator freight car go by, is that trip worth 1K, 3K, 10K? More? It's a slow day. Have at it.
freight car go by, is that trip worth 1K, 3K, 10K? More?
It's a slow day. Have at it.
samfp1943Sort of an interesting side-note(?)....The video referenced by the Threads O.P. on the concurrently runing Thread in regards to the "...BNSF's employes's Wives Story... ". Has a video referenced; that says [IIRC] that in 2021 the BNSF proported to have earned $6 Billion dollars(?) as a railroad... Not to shabby, if accurate, for ole Warren B's railroad... An stil, apparently, Union Contract Free ?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Sort of an interesting side-note(?)....The video referenced by the Threads O.P. on the concurrently runing Thread in regards to the "...BNSF's employes's Wives Story... ".
My dad (who passed in 1998) used to work for the MOPAC and then became a traffic manager, was licensed to practice before the ICC and often file tariffs. There were many factors involved in building and succesfully constructing a tariff. Such as Weight, Volume, fragility, (ie, how could it be damaged), value, Competitive rates, how much time for transit, how many cars are you shipping, etc. You can see similar factors when you go to the post office. Back when he worked, all freight traveled under tariff. Today, not much. Coal, minerals, were very damage resistant but boxes of glass jars were riskier. Thus risk of damage affeected the rate.
Also back then, a rate between point A and point B would be valid via any railroad that served those points. When he filed a rate, if it was approved his competitors would match it.
Back in the 40's, he wrote some artlcles for Trains under the pen name of Forsythe. one about how for the same fare, one could go from Chicago to Los Angles direct (ATSF) or via Salt Lake City, Seattle, Houston etc. for the same fare. Competition was the friend of the traveler.
I would love to see rates today.
Speaking from an intermodal perspective. Intermodal is contract based. When the Staggers Act was passed. One of the caveats was the exemption of intermodal from regulated rates. Some carload traffic moves under contract as well. Most still moves under tariff rates.
There's also spot rates in intermodal. Which by definition means price right now. Intermodal has spot pricing, but it requires an advanced booking. Intermodal spot rates are typically fairly static.
In comparison when it comes to trucks they do not require this. Which makes it far more nimble than intermodal spot pricing. However truckload spot prices are much more dynamic, and can change within a day or so.
I can say this to an extant, but don't quote me as my numbers may be off. For example.. Those BNSF stack trains you see moving on the Southern Transcon between CHI-LA? Are probably grossing BNSF anywhere between $250K-$350K/train..
BaltACD Lithonia Operator Thanks, Balt. I really appreciate it. That gives me an idea. You do mean $5K per railcar load, not per Vega, right? I think the MSRP for a Vega was less than $3K, which I believe included transportation costs.
Lithonia Operator Thanks, Balt. I really appreciate it. That gives me an idea. You do mean $5K per railcar load, not per Vega, right?
Thanks, Balt. I really appreciate it. That gives me an idea.
You do mean $5K per railcar load, not per Vega, right?
I think the MSRP for a Vega was less than $3K, which I believe included transportation costs.
If that's per railcar, it works out to around $230 per Vega...Which sounds reasonable.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BaltACD Lithonia Operator Okay. Some cars go very little distance, carrying low-tarif cargo. OTOH, some cars go very long distances and carry priority loads. Then there's everything in between. So this is an almost impossible question to answer, particularly since freight rates are often (generally?) not public. If you knew all the data, and could crunch the numbers, what would be the cost to ship a mythical "average" load an average distance? Next question. Am I right to assume that the "average" manifest freight contains 50% loads and 50% empties? I ask these questions because when I look at infrastructure, equipment and labor, it seems impossible that RRs are profitable. But clearly they are, mostly. So if I saw the "average train" go by, how much money would the shippers have paid, cumulatively? Regarding unit trains, let's assume that the loaded/empty round trip is one train. When I see the "average" freight car go by, is that trip worth 1K, 3K, 10K? More? It's a slow day. Have at it. I cannot speak to what TODAY's freight rates and accessorial charges are. When I was working at Operators job at Newton Falls, OH in the late 1960's part of the job was to hand up Revenue Waybills for cars that were being picked up by trains from the GM Assembly Plant at Lordstown, OH. These cars were the so called Vert-a-Pak auto carriers used to transport the Chevrolet Vega. I can be mistaken, but I think 22 Vegas could be loaded into each Vert-a-Pak. Looking on the waybills for the freight charges, I recall the amount being in the $4800-$5000 dollar per car for cars being shipped to West Coast destinations. Later in my career, I was involved in the preparation of 'Cargo Statements' - the freight billing of loads of coal dumped on ocean going vessels at the B&O's Curtis Bay Coal Pier. This was in the late 1970's early 1980's period. The freight charges being assessed varied between about $7.50 and $12.00 per ton depend upon the mine of origin and in some cases the route to get to Curtis Bay (B&O was getting about 25000 cars a year from ConRail). It would take between 50K and 60K tons to load a vessel at Curtis Bay, after sailing from Curtis Bay vessels would frequently sail down the Chesapeake Bay to the C&O Coal Pier at Newport News, VA and depending up the vessel load another 100K or 200K tons before going overseas. Today's Post Staggers rates in many cases are based upon contracts betwen the carriers and the customers, the contracts may specify things about different rates depending up different cumulative tonnages the customer ships. There can also be contract provisions pertaining to car cycle for the shipments, especially when shippers privately owned cars are involved. The list of potential contract provisions go on and on - limited only by the imagination of the lawyers involved in the contract negotiations.
Lithonia Operator Okay. Some cars go very little distance, carrying low-tarif cargo. OTOH, some cars go very long distances and carry priority loads. Then there's everything in between. So this is an almost impossible question to answer, particularly since freight rates are often (generally?) not public. If you knew all the data, and could crunch the numbers, what would be the cost to ship a mythical "average" load an average distance? Next question. Am I right to assume that the "average" manifest freight contains 50% loads and 50% empties? I ask these questions because when I look at infrastructure, equipment and labor, it seems impossible that RRs are profitable. But clearly they are, mostly. So if I saw the "average train" go by, how much money would the shippers have paid, cumulatively? Regarding unit trains, let's assume that the loaded/empty round trip is one train. When I see the "average" freight car go by, is that trip worth 1K, 3K, 10K? More? It's a slow day. Have at it.
Some cars go very little distance, carrying low-tarif cargo. OTOH, some cars go very long distances and carry priority loads. Then there's everything in between.
So this is an almost impossible question to answer, particularly since freight rates are often (generally?) not public.
If you knew all the data, and could crunch the numbers, what would be the cost to ship a mythical "average" load an average distance?
Next question. Am I right to assume that the "average" manifest freight contains 50% loads and 50% empties?
I ask these questions because when I look at infrastructure, equipment and labor, it seems impossible that RRs are profitable. But clearly they are, mostly.
So if I saw the "average train" go by, how much money would the shippers have paid, cumulatively? Regarding unit trains, let's assume that the loaded/empty round trip is one train.
When I see the "average" freight car go by, is that trip worth 1K, 3K, 10K? More?
I cannot speak to what TODAY's freight rates and accessorial charges are.
When I was working at Operators job at Newton Falls, OH in the late 1960's part of the job was to hand up Revenue Waybills for cars that were being picked up by trains from the GM Assembly Plant at Lordstown, OH. These cars were the so called Vert-a-Pak auto carriers used to transport the Chevrolet Vega. I can be mistaken, but I think 22 Vegas could be loaded into each Vert-a-Pak. Looking on the waybills for the freight charges, I recall the amount being in the $4800-$5000 dollar per car for cars being shipped to West Coast destinations.
Later in my career, I was involved in the preparation of 'Cargo Statements' - the freight billing of loads of coal dumped on ocean going vessels at the B&O's Curtis Bay Coal Pier. This was in the late 1970's early 1980's period. The freight charges being assessed varied between about $7.50 and $12.00 per ton depend upon the mine of origin and in some cases the route to get to Curtis Bay (B&O was getting about 25000 cars a year from ConRail). It would take between 50K and 60K tons to load a vessel at Curtis Bay, after sailing from Curtis Bay vessels would frequently sail down the Chesapeake Bay to the C&O Coal Pier at Newport News, VA and depending up the vessel load another 100K or 200K tons before going overseas.
Today's Post Staggers rates in many cases are based upon contracts betwen the carriers and the customers, the contracts may specify things about different rates depending up different cumulative tonnages the customer ships. There can also be contract provisions pertaining to car cycle for the shipments, especially when shippers privately owned cars are involved. The list of potential contract provisions go on and on - limited only by the imagination of the lawyers involved in the contract negotiations.
Lithonia OperatorOkay. Some cars go very little distance, carrying low-tarif cargo. OTOH, some cars go very long distances and carry priority loads. Then there's everything in between. So this is an almost impossible question to answer, particularly since freight rates are often (generally?) not public. If you knew all the data, and could crunch the numbers, what would be the cost to ship a mythical "average" load an average distance? Next question. Am I right to assume that the "average" manifest freight contains 50% loads and 50% empties? I ask these questions because when I look at infrastructure, equipment and labor, it seems impossible that RRs are profitable. But clearly they are, mostly. So if I saw the "average train" go by, how much money would the shippers have paid, cumulatively? Regarding unit trains, let's assume that the loaded/empty round trip is one train. When I see the "average" freight car go by, is that trip worth 1K, 3K, 10K? More? It's a slow day. Have at it.
Okay.
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