Greyhound:CSX doesnt offer 24 hour service between Chicago and NJ except for the UPS 1x weekly to meet 4th day service (CA - NYC). However, they do get close with their premium service trains:
Eastbound:
I4 - Depart Bedford Park 1825
New Jersey 2200
I10 Dp Bedford Park 0645
New Jersey 0800
Westbounds:
I3 Dpt New Jersey 0515
Bedford Park 0700
I9 Dpt New Jersey 2015
Bedford Park 0100
If i were trying to maximize revenue, I would delay I departure a couple of hours to be able to handle LTL trailers out of Chicago and still have a midnight arrival in NJ. However, I 4 is usually a massive train as it is, with heavy Amazon containers (today 46). Real heavy Schneider and JBH plus rail pool containers. Todays train had 277 containers, almost all domestic. By contrast today's I10 had only 71 containers/trailers with 13 branded UPS containers/trailers and 1 Amazon.
CSX I168 handles the international containers between Chicago and NJ Port - today's had 214 all international containers.
ed
It must be sad to have "marketing" as a hobby.
YRC has combined a lot of their trucking brands under the Yellow brand.
Thank you Jeff and MP173 for correcting me. Here in the Midwest, the major LTL players seem to be FDX, XPO and Old Dominion. Holland, R&L and Saia are also up there. I almost never see YRC.
PS--I know that Holland is owned by YR, but it's operated separately under their regional branch.
BackshopFirst, I'm not the "operating department". Second, all you have to do is look at what UPS charges per package vs what an LTL carrier charges per pallet. UPS is a premium service. You need to leave the 1980s because Yellow is only a bit player anymore and has been for years.
And it doesn’t have to be limited to LTL. If the train is going, load it up with revenue. Imports westbound. Steel, meat, breakfast cereal, whatever, eastbound.
MP173 Does anyone know if the FedX containers handle the Fedx ground parcels, or is that a separate unit competing vs JBH, etc?
Does anyone know if the FedX containers handle the Fedx ground parcels, or is that a separate unit competing vs JBH, etc?
They do now. With the consolidation of FedEx's divison's. FedEx Ground now has access to their Multimodal 53's.
YRC, while it has issues, is not a bit player. Yes, the old Yellow and Roadway systems were power houses, but YRC still has 300 LTL terminals. The Holland and New Penn systems are important regional systems.
I see quite a few YRC trailers on premium intermodal trains.
Years ago Fred Frailey (I believe) had an outstanding article on the tiered pricing/service levels of Santa Fe intermodal trains (perhaps BNSF trains). It would be of interest to see a followup article, not by Fred as he has retired, but by a knowledgeable reporter.
Amazon is shipping considerable containers now on certain trains...today's CSX Q3 had 38 Amazon containers and 26 UPS trailers/containers. Didnt see any FedX units.
Read recently that Amazon will enter than truckload container market.
Ed
I see a lot of FedEx and Yellow/Roadway trailers on the same Z trains that carry the UPS trailers. Often there are more of the former two than the UPS trailers. I doubt though that they have the same contract provisions.
We've always heard that UPS has guaranteed delivery times, or there are monetary penalties involved.
Jeff
greyhounds Backshop Most shippers probably don't want to pay the premium for the expedited service. Well, here it is. The people in the operating department insist on coming up with reasons why it won’t work instead of trying to figure out how to make it work. OK, just leave the UPS service alone. It’s worked for years. No sense messing with it. But, if UPS will pay for such service why wouldn’t Yellow, FedEx, etc. pay for it? Go find out. Marketing and market development are glaring weak spots for today’s railroads. There’s a whole lot of freight out there moving by truck that they could profitably handle. But the marketing people face continual resistance from the operating people. I took to calling it the “Non-Operating Department” because their goal seemed to be to not operate trains. One day they just decided to not run a train that carried UPS. They didn’t bother to tell anyone. I took the first phone call from UPS. Good Lord! I have never, before, or since, dealt with anyone that angry. The train was eventually run as UPS had higher up contacts than me. What kind of idiots would just kill a UPS train? The good marketing people will leave for other jobs. Jobs where they don’t have to deal with railroad operating departments.
Backshop Most shippers probably don't want to pay the premium for the expedited service.
I've also heard the other argument.
That The good operating people will leave for other jobs. Jobs where they don’t have to deal with railroad marketting departments.
But I beleive the current problem is the operating philosophies that everyone has to play by today. Even if marketting could secure more customers, operating doesn't have the locomotives, yards, track, or manpower to make it happen.
Start closer to the top. With both operating and marketting, decisions are always made without ever consulting those that actually do the work. And if we do make suggestions, they are summarily dismissed becuase (I'm guessing) we're just labor.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
BackshopMost shippers probably don't want to pay the premium for the expedited service.
tree68 MP173 Also there is a daily move of coke from Demmler, Pa to US Steel in Gary moving on B156/B157....seems like a daily move anyway. Ahhh, the "Coke Express." It does seem to be a daily move through Deshler. Of course, there are the empties going back for "deposit," too. It's the real thing...
MP173 Also there is a daily move of coke from Demmler, Pa to US Steel in Gary moving on B156/B157....seems like a daily move anyway.
Ahhh, the "Coke Express." It does seem to be a daily move through Deshler.
Of course, there are the empties going back for "deposit," too.
It's the real thing...
greyhounds MP173 Would love to know what UPS pays for this train plus the corresponding eastward movement of similar size which departs Chicago around 230am Thursday with arrival scheduled in North Bergen around 0001 on Friday morning. That is "Moving It." IF they could/would do that more than once per day with longer trains they'd own almost every pound of surface freight between Chicago and New York.
MP173 Would love to know what UPS pays for this train plus the corresponding eastward movement of similar size which departs Chicago around 230am Thursday with arrival scheduled in North Bergen around 0001 on Friday morning.
That is "Moving It."
IF they could/would do that more than once per day with longer trains they'd own almost every pound of surface freight between Chicago and New York.
MP173Overall revenue was up 28% with net income flat. Go figure.
OK, I will.
Their costs went up too. So, they had more revenue but also more costs. This inflation thing sucks.
They have offered to pay employees more than the contracted rate.
MP173Also there is a daily move of coke from Demmler, Pa to US Steel in Gary moving on B156/B157....seems like a daily move anyway.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
CSX is still handling coal out of WVA and Southern Indiana. Also there is a daily move of coke from Demmler, Pa to US Steel in Gary moving on B156/B157....seems like a daily move anyway.
MP173Balt: Perhaps I was unclear. The I1/I2 UPS trains only run between Chicago and New Jersey. The balance of the movements is by truck...and has been for years. BNSF is not having service disruptions on this movement, although it sounds as if they are having plenting of "issues". If anyone is interested, CSX just released their 2q22 results. Commodity volumes, revenue, and revenue per unit were disclosed. Here is the revenue per "unit" based on groups along with the percentage increase YoY. Chemicals $4036 (per carload) 11% increase Ag 3433 9% Mineral 1889 8 Auto 3153 12 Forest 3392 9 Metals 3130 9 Fertilizer 2185 11 Intermodal 793 17% Coal 3657 58% No doubt the fuel surcharges had quite an impact on these revenue/unit increases. What I do not understand is the 58% increase in carload revenue for coal. Coal loads were down 10% from 183,000 to 173,000. For the 90 day period CSX handled an average of 1922 coal loads per day. Overall revenue was up 28% with net income flat. Go figure. ed
Perhaps I was unclear. The I1/I2 UPS trains only run between Chicago and New Jersey. The balance of the movements is by truck...and has been for years. BNSF is not having service disruptions on this movement, although it sounds as if they are having plenting of "issues".
If anyone is interested, CSX just released their 2q22 results. Commodity volumes, revenue, and revenue per unit were disclosed. Here is the revenue per "unit" based on groups along with the percentage increase YoY.
Chemicals $4036 (per carload) 11% increase
Ag 3433 9%
Mineral 1889 8
Auto 3153 12
Forest 3392 9
Metals 3130 9
Fertilizer 2185 11
Intermodal 793 17%
Coal 3657 58%
No doubt the fuel surcharges had quite an impact on these revenue/unit increases.
What I do not understand is the 58% increase in carload revenue for coal. Coal loads were down 10% from 183,000 to 173,000. For the 90 day period CSX handled an average of 1922 coal loads per day.
Overall revenue was up 28% with net income flat. Go figure.
Unclear you were - I was presuming all rail movement CSX Chicago BNSF.
CSX has been crowing for years about their 'pricing power' ie. they can raise prices and the customers have little alternative. It has been several reporting periods wherein CSX has reported decreased volumes and increased revenues.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Balt:Perhaps I was unclear. The I1/I2 UPS trains only run between Chicago and New Jersey. The balance of the movements is by truck...and has been for years. BNSF is not having service disruptions on this movement, although it sounds as if they are having plenting of "issues".
charlie hebdo MP173 This is the train which runs only 1x per week to Chicago in which the UPS trailers are then trucked to SoCal for guaranteed Friday (4 day delivery). this train used to continue on via Santa Fe but was dropped due to service disruptions to other trains (had to maintain a fast schedule for the UPS loads which screwed up other trains). And that is the discouraging part. The longest part of the haul has to be trucked.
MP173 This is the train which runs only 1x per week to Chicago in which the UPS trailers are then trucked to SoCal for guaranteed Friday (4 day delivery). this train used to continue on via Santa Fe but was dropped due to service disruptions to other trains (had to maintain a fast schedule for the UPS loads which screwed up other trains).
And that is the discouraging part. The longest part of the haul has to be trucked.
Is BNSF absorbing the OTR drayage costs for the service failure of their On The Rail portion of the haul?
MP173This is the train which runs only 1x per week to Chicago in which the UPS trailers are then trucked to SoCal for guaranteed Friday (4 day delivery). this train used to continue on via Santa Fe but was dropped due to service disruptions to other trains (had to maintain a fast schedule for the UPS loads which screwed up other trains).
MP173 I monitor these CSX priority trains almost on a daily basis on their passage thru Deshler and Berea. The foundation might be crumbling on their boxcar business, but the intermodals, particularly the "mail trains" run tight. ed
I monitor these CSX priority trains almost on a daily basis on their passage thru Deshler and Berea. The foundation might be crumbling on their boxcar business, but the intermodals, particularly the "mail trains" run tight.
The kicker here, CSX has the highest average IM on time arrival out of all the C1's right now. Last time I checked CSXT was averaging 95%.
MP173Would love to know what UPS pays for this train plus the corresponding eastward movement of similar size which departs Chicago around 230am Thursday with arrival scheduled in North Bergen around 0001 on Friday morning.
tree68 BaltACD I have no real insight into the contracts between UPS and railroads. Watching Deshler, one rarely sees the "UPS" train pass through town at anything but track speed.
BaltACD I have no real insight into the contracts between UPS and railroads.
Watching Deshler, one rarely sees the "UPS" train pass through town at anything but track speed.
A hallmark of the effort CSX puts into handling UPS business. Even in the PSR age.
BaltACDI have no real insight into the contracts between UPS and railroads.
UPS must be paying a pretty steep rate for railroads to take such extraordinary measures to keep the customer satisfied.
MP173The CP Fact Book is a great resource...thanks JayBee for posting the link. Each quarter the publically traded rails will publish their quarterly report. Tucked inside those reports are a similar format with the factual information for different commodities with carloads, revenue, average revenue, etc. One can determine the revenue and growth of each commodity along with the revenue per carload. For the most part, the revenue per carload has been rising (dramatically) over the past 10 years, except for coal, where the rails have dropped rates to meet demand on a shrinking market. I find the intermodal rates of interest. In the east the unit rate is around $700 - $800. Thus a 250 container Chicago to New Jersey train would average about $175-$200,000. I find it interesting to see the premium trains (primarily UPS) which are moving with 40-60 trailers and container. Obviously the $700-$800 per unit rate doesnt apply, or if so, there is probably a minimum to run that train. For example last night's CSX I1 from New Jersey to Chicago had 56 trailers/containers, of which 36 were UPS branded. This is the train which runs only 1x per week to Chicago in which the UPS trailers are then trucked to SoCal for guaranteed Friday (4 day delivery). this train used to continue on via Santa Fe but was dropped due to service disruptions to other trains (had to maintain a fast schedule for the UPS loads which screwed up other trains). Would love to know what UPS pays for this train plus the corresponding eastward movement of similar size which departs Chicago around 230am Thursday with arrival scheduled in North Bergen around 0001 on Friday morning. ed
Each quarter the publically traded rails will publish their quarterly report. Tucked inside those reports are a similar format with the factual information for different commodities with carloads, revenue, average revenue, etc.
One can determine the revenue and growth of each commodity along with the revenue per carload.
For the most part, the revenue per carload has been rising (dramatically) over the past 10 years, except for coal, where the rails have dropped rates to meet demand on a shrinking market.
I find the intermodal rates of interest. In the east the unit rate is around $700 - $800. Thus a 250 container Chicago to New Jersey train would average about $175-$200,000.
I find it interesting to see the premium trains (primarily UPS) which are moving with 40-60 trailers and container. Obviously the $700-$800 per unit rate doesnt apply, or if so, there is probably a minimum to run that train.
For example last night's CSX I1 from New Jersey to Chicago had 56 trailers/containers, of which 36 were UPS branded. This is the train which runs only 1x per week to Chicago in which the UPS trailers are then trucked to SoCal for guaranteed Friday (4 day delivery). this train used to continue on via Santa Fe but was dropped due to service disruptions to other trains (had to maintain a fast schedule for the UPS loads which screwed up other trains).
Would love to know what UPS pays for this train plus the corresponding eastward movement of similar size which departs Chicago around 230am Thursday with arrival scheduled in North Bergen around 0001 on Friday morning.
I have no real insight into the contracts between UPS and railroads. The only thing I know is the railroads will jump through any number of hoops in order to prevent 'sort failures'. Every box UPS ships via railroads (and likely all other forms of carriage) has a UPS scheduled 'sort time' at the next UPS destination for the box. Railroad schedules work within this framework.
I do know when CSX had issues in the UPS service lanes it was not uncommon for UPS boxes to be unloaded from railcars and driven OTR by truckers to prevent getting a 'sort failure' on the UPS scorecard.
The CP Fact Book is a great resource...thanks JayBee for posting the link.
While specific contracts between carrier and shipper may be publicly unavailable, some railroads still maintain some tariffs. The larger ones seem to want you to contact them to get a rate.
Iowa Interstate Tariff Rates - Iowa Interstate Railroad, LLC (iaisrr.com)
Cedar Rapids and Iowa City Ry Travero - Published Rates
Watco shortlines Tariffs - Watco
Many of them also only pertain to moves only on the individual properties. Moves beyond to another railroad will be more than the amount shown.
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