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Los Angeles to Las Vegas

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  • Member since
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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, May 11, 2022 6:41 PM

greyhounds
I don’t want to have a switch engine and crew waiting around to move the loads from the through train to the terminal.  That would be an unnecessary expense.

But having automated engines to spot at an intermodal pad (technology that isn't even on the railroads) is not an unneccessary expense? 

I've worked trains where we ran thru a yard and dropped off a rear block, or had a crew slam one on.  It doesn't take that long - plus you have to rehang the marker, do your class-3, and I don't think the feds are too willing to let DPUs not be tied onto the brakepipe yet.  

I guess all that can be automated.  But at that point, why not have the trucks drive themselves from LA to the customers in LV, and not even HAVE an IM yard?  Seems like if we're going to automate let's automate the damned thing completely. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, May 11, 2022 6:04 PM

Shouldn't you be posting all your marketing/operating concepts to professional railroaders and not a fan website? Your current one is a doozy.  On the one hand, you want to do it "on the cheap".  On the other, you want to use technology that doesn't exist. Which one is it?  

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Posted by greyhounds on Wednesday, May 11, 2022 5:57 PM

Overmod

I concur with Zug.

If you have all that potential traffic, just use a standard six-axle (6 or 4-motor) unit with DP for the testing... if doing automation you'll be using six-axle units as test mules anyway; divert one.  Heaven knows there are enough of them running around now.  Notch-limit the damn thing if you're concerned about fuel burn or whatever.

We can contact Mike Wolf for the code to be added to the DP radio stream for the disengaging coupler operation; he can probably use the money.

 

 

Oh, Good Grief!
 
Now we’re being hung up by what type of locomotive to use.  I mentioned the GP38-2 because I thought it met the need at a low cost. But it’s not a deal breaker.  I swear, people will use anything they can to stop railroad market development.  Use any locomotive, just don’t throw added unnecessary costs into the operation.
 
I reason the locomotive should:

 

1)      Provide power for the Las Vegas block

2)      Be able to detach itself and the Vegas block from the train autonomously

3)      Spot the loads at the Vegas intermodal terminal autonomously

 
I don’t want to have a switch engine and crew waiting around to move the loads from the through train to the terminal.  That would be an unnecessary expense.
 
 
 
"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, May 11, 2022 5:10 PM

I concur with Zug.

If you have all that potential traffic, just use a standard six-axle (6 or 4-motor) unit with DP for the testing... if doing automation you'll be using six-axle units as test mules anyway; divert one.  Heaven knows there are enough of them running around now.  Notch-limit the damn thing if you're concerned about fuel burn or whatever.

We can contact Mike Wolf for the code to be added to the DP radio stream for the disengaging coupler operation; he can probably use the money.

 

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, May 11, 2022 4:41 PM

greyhounds
Nope. I don’t think it’s a good plan to need a switch engine and crew on duty and in position for this.  Automate as much as possible to save dollars. 

Instead of having a crew that would be easy to get, we are going to have to modernize an old  and quickly disappearing locomotive type (is it even feasable? - I've seen the racks of stuff that had to be added to them for PTC) and rely on technology that's still pretty much in fantasy phase.  

 

Sure. 

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure I dont' see the big picture. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by greyhounds on Wednesday, May 11, 2022 4:31 PM
 
Shadow the Cats owner
Las Vegas is a freaking desert for outbound loads.  You have to deadhead out of there either into Arizona or California for reloads. 
This is a good, concise description of the market opportunity.  Las Vegas seems very similar to the Miami area market served successfully by FEC intermodal.  If a trucker takes a revenue load in, he/she is liable to have to drive out with an empty truck and no revenue.  The trucker will have to add the costs of those empty miles to the inbound rate.
BaltACD
LA to LV is too short of a haul to be practical and profitable for intermodal service and too difficult to compete against rubber tires on the roads between the points.
We need to look at the dollars, not the miles.  The truck rate into Vegas must cover the costs of repositioning their driver and equipment to another revenue load.  The railroad should have an advantage here because the inbound intermodal loads can hitch a ride on an existing train.  There will be zero incremental labor costs.  Same thing with moving the empties out of Vegas. Zero incremental labor costs. 
 
There will be drayage costs.
 
[quote user="jeffhergert”]

I don't think any of the smaller engines are DP capable.  Only the more "modern" six axle road power. [/quote]

Well, there's been no reason to make a GP38-2 DP capable.  But that doesn't mean it can't be done.  It's a fully depreciated locomotive so, as with the labor costs, the ownership costs of the locomotive are virtually zilch.

There will be maintenance and fuel costs, etc.

[quote user="SD60MAC9500”] This would be difficult to do as the terminal is stub ended. So you'd have to reverse then double over to the lead. A regular switch will do. No need to complicate the movement in the plant. Nor add power to a block that will be isolated for most of the trip. [/quote]

Nope. I don’t think it’s a good plan to need a switch engine and crew on duty and in position for this.  Automate as much as possible to save dollars. 

JoeBlow
If gambling wasn't illegal in almost the entire US years ago, Vegas would be about the size of Nipton or 29 Palms, CA. You're roaring down the road at 75 miles an hour, with AC roaring and the radio blaring, you blink, and you miss the entire town. 

I pretty much agree with this.  Around here, now, pretty much every bar, restaurant, gas station, grocery store, etc. has slot machines.  I can make a sports bet on line.  But we have to deal with the current reality.  And the large population of the Las Vegas area is the current reality.

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by Erik_Mag on Tuesday, May 10, 2022 10:45 PM

One chemical of interest being ammoniun perchlorate... A couple of the biggest customers for that are located in Magna and Promontory Utah.

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Posted by azrail on Tuesday, May 10, 2022 10:22 PM

There are the chemical plants in Henderson which do some shipping.

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Posted by JoeBlow on Tuesday, May 10, 2022 6:37 PM

            As other posters have stated. Vegas doesn't produce any outbound loads. Despite various attempts over the years, such as Faraday, the entire city's existence largely depends on hospitality. 

           If gambling wasn't illegal in almost the entire US years ago, Vegas would be about the size of Nipton or 29 Palms, CA. You're roaring down the road at 75 miles an hour, with AC roaring and the radio blaring, you blink, and you miss the entire town. 

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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, May 10, 2022 3:51 PM

I don't think any of the smaller engines are DP capable.  Only the more "modern" six axle road power.

Jeff

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, May 10, 2022 3:19 PM

LA to LV is too short of a haul to be practical and profitable for intermodal service and too difficult to compete against rubber tires on the roads between the points.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Tuesday, May 10, 2022 3:06 PM

The biggest reason is this Las Vegas is a freaking desert for outbound loads.  You have to deadhead out of there either into Arizona or California for reloads.  There is some freight out of Northern NV for the most part NV itself is a desert of outbound loads of all types.  You normally end up deadheading with a reefer to places like Bakersfield or Oxnard to get reloaded or with a flatbed head for the ports or mines to get reloads.  There was a copper mine in AZ the old Kenndecot mine that provided a lot of reloads over the years for flatbedders across the nation.

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Tuesday, May 10, 2022 11:57 AM

greyhounds

 

10)   At the proper point and time, the Vegas block automatically detaches itself, with locomotive, from the train.  (i.e., Helper Mate.) It runs itself onto the correct track at the Vegas IM terminal.

 

 
This would be difficult to do as the terminal is stub ended. So you'd have to reverse then double over to the lead. A regular switch will do. No need to complicate the movement in the plant. Nor add power to a block that will be isolated for most of the trip.
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, May 10, 2022 6:28 AM

Thanks for the good info, '9500!

I guess it is not well known because as we all know, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas....

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Tuesday, May 10, 2022 1:55 AM
 

UP serves Las Vegas. All that traffic rides in exisitng manifest service and is block swapped at its Valley(intermodal ramp) Terminal. Which is also UP's Auto Ramp. Their Valley IM ramp is also a part of the UMAX network.

 
 
 
 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Los Angeles to Las Vegas
Posted by greyhounds on Monday, May 9, 2022 11:46 PM
Just for grins, somebody tell me why this won’t work.

 

1)      The Union Pacific, last I heard, runs an intermodal train from Los Angeles to Denver via Salt Lake City.

 

 

2)      The train goes through Las Vegas, NV, but does not carry Los Angeles to Las Vegas loads.

 

3)      Las Vegas has an existing intermodal terminal.

 

 

4)      The Las Vegas metro area has over one million residents plus all those visitors.

 

5)      The people in Las Vegas need things such as tires, toothpaste, bananas, shoes, orange juice, etc.

 

6)      A lot of these things come out of Los Angeles.

 

7)      The UP doesn’t serve the market.

 

 

8)      So

 

 

9)      Let’s add a Vegas block to the rear of the train.  Put a smaller DPU locomotive, a GP38-2 would be nice, on a rear end block with the Vegas loads.

 

10)   At the proper point and time, the Vegas block automatically detaches itself, with locomotive, from the train.  (i.e., Helper Mate.) It runs itself onto the correct track at the Vegas IM terminal.

 

11)   What could go wrong?

 
Someone would have to run the numbers, but I’ll wager (This IS Las Vegas) the incremental revenues would exceed the incremental costs. 
"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.

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