From U. S. Code 49, V, E, 281, 28101:
"...rail police officer...may enforce the laws of any jurisdiction in which the rail carrier owns property, to the extent of the authority of a police officer...of that jurisdiction..."
If one is in LA, jurisdictions would appear to be: Los Angeles City, Los Angeles County (sheriff), California, and United States.
I see the possibility of arrests under federal law, and those do not go through the government of Los Angeles.
In particular, Theft From Interstate Shipment (18 U.S.C. section 659) comes to mind. And then there's the ever popular RICO.
Ed
Ed,
As I understand it, the railroad police have no trouble arresting the perpetrators, but when they bring them to the DA, he will not press charges. So the perpetrators are just released and are back at the containers the next day. I recall reading that the U.P. said they have arrested about 100 people looting containters, and the DA has not charged any of them because he says there is not enough evidence. I am not sure what could be done at the Federal level. The news has not discussed that. I doubt that there has ever been a situation like this before.
The DA has reportedly given a clear and specific reason for not wanting to press charges.
EuclidEd, As I understand it, the railroad police have no trouble arresting the perpetrators, but when they bring them to the DA, he will not press charges. So the perpetrators are just released and are back at the containers the next day. I recall reading that the U.P. said they have arrested about 100 people looting containters, and the DA has not charged any of them because he says there is not enough evidence. I am not sure what could be done at the Federal level. The news has not discussed that. I doubt that there has ever been a situation like this before. The DA has reportedly given a clear and specific reason for not wanting to press charges.
Maybe the venue should be changed to Brookside, Alabama
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXE9i1Qk7q8
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Euclid Ed, As I understand it, the railroad police have no trouble arresting the perpetrators, but when they bring them to the DA, he will not press charges. So the perpetrators are just released and are back at the containers the next day. I recall reading that the U.P. said they have arrested about 100 people looting containters, and the DA has not charged any of them because he says there is not enough evidence. I am not sure what could be done at the Federal level. The news has not discussed that. I doubt that there has ever been a situation like this before. The DA has reportedly given a clear and specific reason for not wanting to press charges.
Only suggesting that the UP police get a bit more thoughtful about what and where to charge the miscreants. Perhaps they should hold them until they have puzzled that out. Somewhere.
Meanwhile, the FBI is not Investigating whether any federal laws have been broken.
BaltACD Maybe the venue should be changed to Brookside, Alabama https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXE9i1Qk7q8
Maybe. But the crimes are not taking place there.
They are taking place in Los Angeles, in Los Angeles County, in California, in the United States.
One can only assume that stealing things must be illegal in at least one of those jurisdictions. And that a conspiracy to steal (RICO, RICO, RICO...) is illegal in the United States.
The DA, Gascon, is probably feeling a bit anxious, since the governor, Newsom, has felt the need to appear and, uh, fill plastic trash bags. That does NOT appear to be saying that Gascon has Newsom's support.
EuclidWhen I ask what the DA could do to cooperate, I am asking what options he has to act in a cooperative way.
Okay, I see now that the subtle approach is not working, so I'll spell it out.
Perhaps the DA is as concerned about theft from containers as the railroads are about myriad issues they spawn in the communities they pass through?
Sometimes the "official" explanation given for a particular set of circumstances, is intentionally dodgy. Especially when true motive might draw flies.
Just speculating, but maybe the local prosecutor would prefer the solution Ed proposes, let the perps be prosecuted and incarcerated on the federal dime, rather than burdening already scarce state resources? Wouldn't surprise me one bit if that was a factor.
Around here there is a big snit about state level prisoners being kept in county jails as a spurious "diversion" program claiming to shelter low level criminals from hard realities of our prison system. When the more tangible end effect is to shift the cost of incarceration to local coffers.
I can imagine a scenario where the LA prosecutor is being mindful of who's footing the bill for those prisoners he "creates".
Convicted One Sometimes the "official" explanation given for a particular set of circumstances, is intentionally dodgy. Especially when true motive might draw flies. Just speculating, but maybe the local prosecutor would prefer the solution Ed proposes, let the perps be prosecuted and incarcerated on the federal dime, rather than burdening already scarce state resources? Wouldn't surprise me one bit if that was a factor. Around here there is a big snit about state level prisoners being kept in county jails as a spurious "diversion" program claiming to shelter low level criminals from hard realities of our prison system. When the more tangible end effect is to shift the cost of incarceration to local coffers. I can imagine a scenario where the LA prosecutor is being mindful of who's footing the bill for those prisoners he "creates".
Euclid why struggle to find explanations for the DA’s reluctance to prosecute the container theft
Oh, it wasn't a "struggle", I was glad that I could help.
EuclidThe DA feels that it is better to not prosecute the container thefts because the value of the prosecution is not worth the damage it does to the perpetrator for a simple mistake they made earlier in life.
That was your mother's ashes in that urn they found discarded in the debris...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Euclid The DA feels that it is better to not prosecute the container thefts because the value of the prosecution is not worth the damage it does to the perpetrator for a simple mistake they made earlier in life.
7j43k Euclid The DA feels that it is better to not prosecute the container thefts because the value of the prosecution is not worth the damage it does to the perpetrator for a simple mistake they made earlier in life. Fair enough. I wonder, though, if ANOTHER simple mistake were to happen. And ANOTHER. And ANOTHER. Almost as if it's a profession. Also, of course, the perpetrator really should get some Life Guidance before being released to continue his/her life. Perhaps he/she wouldn't think on their own that it would be good and proper to cease doing crimes, and could benefit from outside help. One of the Life Guidances could be picking up all that trash, so the Governor doesn't have to do it all (say, did the DA join him?). I was at a local meeting when a couple of kids came in to do their Restorative Justice thing. Truth is, they seemed like nice enough kids, and I did wish them well in life. Ed
Presuming they get prosecuted and convicted for prison time - is there sufficient prison capacity to hold them?
What if Union Pacific started using West Colton and trucking to LA. Would it help? Gary
BaltACD Presuming they get prosecuted and convicted for prison time - is there sufficient prison capacity to hold them?
7j43k BaltACD Presuming they get prosecuted and convicted for prison time - is there sufficient prison capacity to hold them? I just looked it up, and it does appear there is room for some more guests. Ed
If there is room - is there enough budget? You don't put people in prison for free.
Prisoners of this type could be put to work. Like picking up trash from streets and roadways. In fair weather locations they could be housed in tents (see Phoenix, AZ a few years ago) as an example.
diningcarPrisoners of this type could be put to work. Like picking up trash from streets and roadways. In fair weather locations they could be housed in tents (see Phoenix, AZ a few years ago) as an example.
So make slave of prisoners. Locations that don't have funds to house prisoners also don't have funds to supervise them outside of the prison enviornment.
Have prisoners pick up the trash? This comes to mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBn5aIfZElE
BaltACDIf there is room - is there enough budget? You don't put people in prison for free.
Balt, I love 'ya man, and I always enjoy and learn from your posts. But with the above and your other posts it seems you're looking for reasons to do nothing.
Something has to be done about this. It's an old maxim that if you ignore, rationalize, explain away, sympathize with, or in a backhanded way reward irresponsible or illegal behavior all you do is buy yourself more of it. That's the way it's always been and always will be.
Just a thought. Can some of the shortages we're seeing on supermarket and other shelves in retail establishments be traced back to this? Who knows how many goods aren't getting to market because they're lying trashed on the right-of-way?
Flintlock76 But with the above and your other posts it seems you're looking for reasons to do nothing.
FWIW, I didn't interpret his fatalism as a personal desire to do nothing. I thnik he is just making a wistful poke at the price tag of an effective solution.
It's one thing to say "get tough on crime", but who wants to pay the pricetag?
We could get into a convoluted discussion about budget priority, and the things that government authority prefers to spend it's available resources on vs what the public thinks their money deserves to be spent on...but that would not conform to the central theme of these message boards. So I'll just say that I believe there are conflicted priorities fueling some of the "mystery" we seem to be painting here.
If ya fill all the prisons up, then ya gotta build more....
7j43kI just looked it up, and it does appear there is room for some more guests.
I wonder if Gunderson is still offering the "shackles" option on those tri-levels?
My bit of research turned up some space in the prison system for a few more lucky winners.
The 13th Amendment specifically DOES allow forced labor for prisoners.
7j43kMy bit of research turned up some space in the prison system for a few more lucky winners.
I suspect the picture might be a little bigger than what is at face value.
What is the forecast? Is there a budget of beds needed to be held available for expected new admissions for violent crime? (turnover).
I'm just telling you that I know for a fact that California periodically has to purge non-violent criminals early, to make room for new admissions...I think it happens frequently enough that the beneficiaries even have a special lingo for it....an "early out", or something similar.
So, I'd speculate that being "in that business", the prosecutors are mindful of system dynamics that affect their workflow. I may be giving them too much credit, but I don't think so.
Can they divert the material and people that have been idled at the border wall?
Are they seeing the same issue in the trenched lines?
rdamonAre they seeing the same issue in the trenched lines?
The worst of the problem appeaes to be in the "Lincoln Heights" area. Which is a bit north of the trench. Likely the most vulnerable area... where east bound trains wait for their "slot" to proceed east, but I'm just speculating about that last part
Convicted One. .....If ya fill all the prisons up, then ya gotta build more....
.....If ya fill all the prisons up, then ya gotta build more....
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
54light15Have prisoners pick up the trash? This comes to mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBn5aIfZElE
As in "COOL HAND LUKE", "What we have here is a failure to communicate"
And of course Newsome backtracked faster than I thought was humanly possible on his tough on crime talk. He is now saying UP is at fault for all the Thefts.
Shadow the Cats owner And of course Newsome backtracked faster than I thought was humanly possible on his tough on crime talk. He is now saying UP is at fault for all the Thefts.
I spent some time searching for this subject and couldn't find it.
Could you please provide a link?
I had not heard that Newsome said that, but District Attorney Gascon said U.P. is at fault for the thefts because they don't secure their containers. I posted this in the other thread:
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