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CPKC - effects on traffic flows and traffic counts?

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, March 23, 2023 5:37 AM

We'll see some answers firsthand - the merger is scheduled to be completed April 14th.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Thursday, March 16, 2023 9:33 PM

One wonders if some of their perishables single line service will eventually extend to single line service to the Greater New York and Philadelphia areas.

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Posted by ns145 on Thursday, March 16, 2023 5:52 PM

The train count and MGT increases on the Marquette Sub post-merger are such that I can't imagine there being any diversions from the Milwaukee-Portage route via Sabula.  I can see some traffic that CP is currently interchanging in Chicago to UP and BNSF moving to points south of Kansas City.  Even that should be relatively small, because CP could force the interchange on that traffic to Kansas City right now.  

I found this nice live ArcGIS web mapping site that provides both train count and traffic density data pre and post merger for the US portion of the CPKC network: https://www.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/665e5f3b1412406ea49454f573aefd35

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, March 16, 2023 1:55 PM

I would think the Twin Cities-Chicago would continue via Milwaukee since the line can handle the traffic and is the more direct route.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Ajsik on Thursday, March 16, 2023 1:38 PM

Resurrecting this thread following the merger approval by the STB.

I'm (selfishly) still trying to understand the affect on traffic through Milwaukee on the Watertown and C&M subdivisions.  I would've expected a decrease since at least 'some' of the traffic from the north and west can now bypass Chicago, heading directly to Kansas City or points south.  However, the CP merger filing projected a slight increase.

Two questions:

1) Is there rationale supporting an increase in traffic between Minneapolis and Chicago by way of Milwaukee?

2) Am I correct to assume that any such Minneapolis to Chicago traffic would continue to be routed via Milwaukee?  I've seen speculation that some of this traffic would be routed via Sabula, but if there's an advantage to doing this, hasn't this route always been available to CP?

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, June 25, 2022 2:57 PM

KCS is continuing plans to build the 2nd bridge at Laredo to Mexico.  Texas Mexico RR ( Later bought by KCS ) has owned the bridge.  Just north beyond the bridge west of KCS track is the UP ( former MP ) track that joins KCS.  North of that junction is the Laredo UP yard.

North of that junction the TM had 2 tracks that went past the passenger station that is/was between TM and MP.  Those 2 tracks proceeded north and turned east at Washington street (?) to go due east across about 12 grade crossing then over a depressed I-35. Tracks continue east at grade over streets then SSE past TM yard then east, NE, E, SE past another TM yard...  Somewhere between the 2 yards ( do not remember ) was the main TM loco facility.

TM removed the 2nd track west next to the passenger station from sorth of station then east north of the second track.  All of the ROW north of the eastward track eastward was still intact including the 2 track bridge over I-35.  Evidently KCS is going to restore this TM removed track.  Every N- S street crossed the TM at grade as the topography is very flat at that part of Laredo.

NOTE" have not been to Laredo after TM became KCS.  Next to ROW north of the eastward track ROW is / was a McDonalds that provided cool viewing whenever a TM train came off bridge. Trains to Mexico too difficult to predict. Was fooled more than once by a UP that did not go TM but went north at station.

It appears to be the City's concern is that KCS land barges will block some of the westwerd tracks going toward the bridge and future bridges.

Kansas City Southern Railroad proceeds with plans to build rail bridge in Laredo (msn.com)

Here is link to open railway map that can be zoomed down to just parts of Laredo.

OpenRailwayMap

EDIT"  Seem to remember not all grade crossings had any lights or gates?  Remember trains were just at restrictedd speeds ?

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, December 31, 2021 2:06 AM

Voting trust prior to assumed approval of merger with Cp.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, December 28, 2021 4:48 PM

Don't know anything about traffic.

That being said, I just noticed that KCS (trade symbol KSU) is no longer showing as being traded on my stock 'ticker'.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, December 23, 2021 4:22 PM

kgbw49
Intereating take on the whole Canadian rail situation in the 12/23/21 Toronto Globe & Mail:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-a-clear-and-present-danger-for-the-continued-efficiency-of-rail/

TCI again. Playing both ends of the game.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Thursday, December 23, 2021 4:13 PM

Intereating take on the whole Canadian rail situation in the 12/23/21 Toronto Globe & Mail:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-a-clear-and-present-danger-for-the-continued-efficiency-of-rail/

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Posted by JayBee on Friday, December 10, 2021 7:19 PM

Closing is to happen Tuesday December 14th, 2021. After that CP will own KCS subject to a voting trust, pending a final STB decision on the merger, expected late next year.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Friday, December 10, 2021 4:24 PM

Excellent idea, me ol' mucker!

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, December 9, 2021 10:32 PM

kgbw49

I wonder if "Murdoch Mysteries" will become popular south of the Texas border?

Have to ask Crabtree! 

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Thursday, December 9, 2021 5:06 PM

I'll be watching closely to see what happens next.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Thursday, December 9, 2021 4:20 PM

I wonder if "Murdoch Mysteries" will become popular south of the Texas border?

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Posted by JayBee on Wednesday, December 8, 2021 6:14 PM

Well today CP's shareholder's voted to merge their US subsidiaries with KCS. They also voted to change the name of the holding company to "Canadian Pacific Kansas City" contingent upon receiving final approval to dissolve the Voting Trust and take full control of KCS. The next step is for KCS shareholder's to vote on accepting CP's offer, which they will do on Friday December 10th, 2021.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, November 30, 2021 2:37 PM

BaltACD

 

 
CSSHEGEWISCH
 
kgbw49

The construction of the Canadian Pacific Railroad did as much to "seal" the border with the United States to result in the Canada with its 13 provinces that we all know today,as much as the original 1818 treaty. 

The last time I looked, Canada had ten provinces and three territories.

 

What are the distinctions between Porvince and Territories?  Is one disenfranchised in comparison to the other?

 

The three territories are not sovereign states.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, November 30, 2021 2:20 PM

kgbw49

een the Lake of the Woods and the West Coast, there was real thought at the time that the US might have continued to expand to the north, leaving Canada as its four original provinces of Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, formed as Canada in 1867.

 

Prior to 1818, the United States claimed a significant part of what is now British Columbia, and the 49th parallel treated enacted in 1818 set the boundary as we know now. However, as we all know, boundaries changed a lot in the 1800s and even the early 1900s. There is nothing to say that the British Empire would not have sold the wild, untamed, and lightly settled Western Canada at some point to the United States as Russia did Alaska, particularly as it needed revenues to garrison its empire around the globe in the latter half of the 1800s and early 1900s.

The construction of the Canadian Pacific Railroad did as much to "seal" the border with the United States to result in the Canada with its 13 provinces that we all know today,as much as the original 1818 treaty.

 

Well there is  54-40 or fight!!  Can it be revived ?

Fifty-four Forty or Fight—The U.S./Canada Boundary (thoughtco.com)

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, November 30, 2021 1:17 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
 
kgbw49

The construction of the Canadian Pacific Railroad did as much to "seal" the border with the United States to result in the Canada with its 13 provinces that we all know today,as much as the original 1818 treaty. 

The last time I looked, Canada had ten provinces and three territories.

What are the distinctions between Porvince and Territories?  Is one disenfranchised in comparison to the other?

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, November 30, 2021 12:33 PM

And you would be correct! Brain-lock on my part. I know better. Apologies to any Canadian friends out there!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, November 30, 2021 10:10 AM

kgbw49

 

The construction of the Canadian Pacific Railroad did as much to "seal" the border with the United States to result in the Canada with its 13 provinces that we all know today,as much as the original 1818 treaty.

The last time I looked, Canada had ten provinces and three territories.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Saturday, November 27, 2021 5:11 PM

Earlier I suggested Canada America Mexico, CAM. (Nouns, not adjectives.) But I think I might like your version better.

Still in training.


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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, November 27, 2021 4:55 PM

Lithonia Operator
 
kgbw49

Lithonia Operator, I believe he means that the railroad will ultimately just be known as Canadian Pacific, not CPKC, because of the importance of Canadian Pacific to Canadian history. 

I think that's a real possibility. I'd prefer a name that incorporates Canda, US and Mexico. But I'd prefer Canadian Pacific to CPKC.

Could very well end up - CAM - Canadian American Mexican.

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Saturday, November 27, 2021 4:10 PM

kgbw49

Lithonia Operator, I believe he means that the railroad will ultimately just be known as Canadian Pacific, not CPKC, because of the importance of Canadian Pacific to Canadian history.

I think that's a real possibility. I'd prefer a name that incorporates Canda, US and Mexico. But I'd prefer Canadian Pacific to CPKC.

Still in training.


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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, November 27, 2021 12:29 PM

Lithonia Operator, I believe he means that the railroad will ultimately just be known as Canadian Pacific, not CPKC, because of the importance of Canadian Pacific to Canadian history.

Had CP not been built so close to the 49th parallel between the Lake of the Woods and the West Coast, there was real thought at the time that the US might have continued to expand to the north, leaving Canada as its four original provinces of Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, formed as Canada in 1867.

Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland and Labrador in the east would probably have still joined Canada, but at the time there was a lot of consideration as to whether everything west of Ontario north of the 49th parallel to the Alaska Territory border (purchased from Russia in 1867) might in fact become part of the United States instead.

Prior to 1818, the United States claimed a significant part of what is now British Columbia, and the 49th parallel treated enacted in 1818 set the boundary as we know now. However, as we all know, boundaries changed a lot in the 1800s and even the early 1900s. There is nothing to say that the British Empire would not have sold the wild, untamed, and lightly settled Western Canada at some point to the United States as Russia did Alaska, particularly as it needed revenues to garrison its empire around the globe in the latter half of the 1800s and early 1900s.

The construction of the Canadian Pacific Railroad did as much to "seal" the border with the United States to result in the Canada with its 13 provinces that we all know today,as much as the original 1818 treaty.

 

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Saturday, November 27, 2021 10:14 AM

CMStPnP
I have a real hard time believing the Canadians would allow a permanent name change to CP.

 
Do you mean "to CPKC?"

Still in training.


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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, November 27, 2021 9:24 AM

CP has leased space in Canadian Pacific Plaza in downtown Minneapolis as the current US headquarters. I don't know for sure if dispatchers are still there. But I seem to recall they were. It used to be Soo Line Plaza but CP sold it for $68.8 million in 2015.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/blog/real_estate/2015/11/artis-reit-buys-canadian-pacific-plaza-minneapolis.html

Downtown Minneapolis is a shell of what it used to be, with significant vacancy rates and many companies relocating out. Perhaps CP will vacate downtown Minneapolis completely.

St. Paul yard is the only hump yard left on the CP system and has a large diesel shop, so operationally it should remain a key point on the CP system. They still have a turntable and a portion of the roundhouse in operation.

44.9403282, -93.0468588

Kansas City is probably no more than a 3-hour Gulfstream flight from almost any point on the proposed system. It will be interesting to see how that all plays out as to the official headquarters in Calgary and the de facto headquarters where the CEO resides.

I seem to recall stories printed about EHH running CP from his ranch in Florida.

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Posted by caldreamer on Saturday, November 27, 2021 8:02 AM

I have the full merger application and it states that Kansas City will be US headquarters and that a small number of employees will be moved there.  The rest will have to find other positions at Minneapolis or find other employment.

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