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These Fallen Flags Are Great Here’s Why..

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Posted by diningcar on Saturday, July 31, 2021 11:19 AM

Santa Fe Railway, the opener of the southwestern United States, is my favorite. Their perception to optimize the indigenous culture of that region into their advertising and calendars, painted by famous artists, lasts yet to this day. 

They also built the El Tovar on the Grand Canyon rim and promoted the still renouned Fred Harvey food, hotels and restaurants. Their part time employee, along with Fred Harvey, Mary Elizabeth Jane Coulter, designed and supervised building of the Watch Tower located toward the eastern end of the Grand Canyon. 

Their Super Chief was the favorite of Hollywood stars prior to airplanes, and also for business executives. Their Mimbreno china, designed by Mary Coulter, was created exclusively for the Super Chief and remains a very active collectable. 

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Saturday, July 31, 2021 2:12 PM
 

samfp1943

Just for general infprmation: 1972  Southern Pacific [Corp] Communiocations began divesting/ selling excess (or surplus) communicatons capacity. On its microwave and fiber optic telecom system (laid along their railroad rights of way) to corporations for use as private lines.  This became the telecom corp known by its former railroad's designation of SPRINT...Southern Pacific Railroad Internal Networking Telephony...Whistling

 

Yes! Can't forget about SPRINT. See the Espee was ahead of it's time Smile

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, July 31, 2021 5:38 PM

SD60MAC9500
 
samfp1943

Just for general infprmation: 1972  Southern Pacific [Corp] Communiocations began divesting/ selling excess (or surplus) communicatons capacity. On its microwave and fiber optic telecom system (laid along their railroad rights of way) to corporations for use as private lines.  This became the telecom corp known by its former railroad's designation of SPRINT...Southern Pacific Railroad Internal Networking Telephony...Whistling 

Yes! Can't forget about SPRINT. See the Espee was ahead of it's time Smile

Not only is SP a fallen flag so is Sprint.  T-Mobile bought them last year.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, July 31, 2021 11:16 PM

Actually SPRINT purchased T-Mobile and then immediately changed its name to T-Mobile, but all T-Mobile's management is in charge of the combined company.

And now T-Mobile is implementing Precision Scheduled Reception so your text and emails only come in to your phone in longer but less frequent groupings.

They are also implementing extended sidings of fiber lines so that data packets going in opposite directions can get to their destination with less conflicts. They had been working on laying double fiber lines but were able to determine it was less capital-intensive to lay longer and more closely-spaced fiber sidings. This resulted in more cash being available to return to shareholders.

T-Mobile also refurbished the largest analog telephone switch box that they used in their network before the digital revolution. They are taking it on a tour of cities on the T-Mobile network and displaying it so people can see it up close, feel the heat coming off of it as it operates, and see the analog switches moving back and forth on the unit. They call it the Big Boy. T-Mobile is not forgetting their heritage.

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, August 1, 2021 12:08 AM

kgbw49
Actually SPRINT purchased T-Mobile and then immediately changed its name to T-Mobile, but all T-Mobile's management is in charge of the combined company.

And now T-Mobile is implementing Precision Scheduled Reception so your text and emails only come in to your phone in longer but less frequent groupings.

They are also implementing extended sidings of fiber lines so that data packets going in opposite directions can get to their destination with less conflicts. They had been working on laying double fiber lined but were able to determine it was less capital-intensive to lay longer and more closely-spaced fiber sidings. This resulted in more cash being available to return to shareholders.

T-Mobile also refurbished the largest analog telephone switch box that they used in their networkbefore the digital resolution and they are taking it on a tour of cities on the T-Mobile network and displaying it so people can see it up close, feel the heat coming off of it as it operates, and see the analog switches moving back and forth on the unit. T-Mobile is not forgetting their heritage.

They are also end dating the LG Stylo5 I got from Sprint two years ago.  It needs to be traded to something 5G before the end of the year.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, August 1, 2021 9:06 AM

BaltACD
Not only is SP a fallen flag so is Sprint.  T-Mobile bought them last year.

Well, so much for the Father, the Son, and the Holy Sprint.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, August 1, 2021 12:59 PM

Change the size and capacity of cars ?  SOU RR's Big John grain car fight with the ICC completely changed the capacities of cars.

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Sunday, August 1, 2021 6:26 PM
 

BaltACD

 

 
kgbw49
Actually SPRINT purchased T-Mobile and then immediately changed its name to T-Mobile, but all T-Mobile's management is in charge of the combined company.

And now T-Mobile is implementing Precision Scheduled Reception so your text and emails only come in to your phone in longer but less frequent groupings.

They are also implementing extended sidings of fiber lines so that data packets going in opposite directions can get to their destination with less conflicts. They had been working on laying double fiber lined but were able to determine it was less capital-intensive to lay longer and more closely-spaced fiber sidings. This resulted in more cash being available to return to shareholders.

T-Mobile also refurbished the largest analog telephone switch box that they used in their networkbefore the digital resolution and they are taking it on a tour of cities on the T-Mobile network and displaying it so people can see it up close, feel the heat coming off of it as it operates, and see the analog switches moving back and forth on the unit. T-Mobile is not forgetting their heritage.

 

They are also end dating the LG Stylo5 I got from Sprint two years ago.  It needs to be traded to something 5G before the end of the year.

 

Verizon's LTE service has been pretty crappy as of late with their adoption of 5G. I'm in the same boat. I'll need a 5G capable phone before the end of the year..

 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by DJMF on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 9:10 AM

Chicago Great Western.  Noted for 10 F-Unit lash ups, early developer of TOFC, unique rural rail hub (Oelwein), and one of the last Class 1 railroads ever built.  At peak, less total route miles than the Milwaukee Road's Pacific Coast Extension but magaged to serve the major gateways of Chicago, Kansas City, Omaha, and the Twin Cities. Nearly all track has been abandoned.

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Posted by GERALD A EDGAR on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 11:56 AM

CB&Q Obviously - the road of Presidents i.e groomed more presidents for other RR's than any other RR.  The innovator of Zephyrs, etc and THE 1st name of America's biggest/best RR - BN!  (after all the wizard of Omaha bought them rather than the UP despite it being in his backyard!)

 

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Posted by cefinkjr on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 12:30 PM

BaltACD

B&O - created the industry.

Do I detect a little bit of bias there, Balt?  Wink

I'll match you and add very early use of computers to the innovations that can be credited to NYC.

Chuck
Allen, TX

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Posted by VGN Jess on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 12:54 PM

Virginian RWY  (VGN) because my grandfather was an engineer. As a child, I rode in the cab of his FM H16-44 sometimes.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 1:01 PM

cefinkjr
 
BaltACD

B&O - created the industry. 

Do I detect a little bit of bias there, Balt?  Wink

I'll match you and add very early use of computers to the innovations that can be credited to NYC.

https://www.baltimoremagazine.com/section/businessdevelopment/how-baltimore-invented-the-modern-world/

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by JEFFREY PLETCHER on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 5:33 PM

Back to SD70MAC's original theme, technology: My favorite road, Missouri Pacific, developed computerized freight car tracking (originally using punch cards) adopted by other roads. Not as flashy as double-stacks and intermodal, but an important advancement nevertheless.

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 6:00 PM

Well, GARR is known for being perhaps the last Class 1 with a mixed train. So there!

Well, I THINK it (combined with AWP and WofA) was a Class 1 ...

Still in training.


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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 6:23 PM

Lithonia Operator
Well, GARR is known for being perhaps the last Class 1 with a mixed train. So there!

Well, I THINK it (combined with AWP and WofA) was a Class 1 ...

In the CSX Dispatching Center the Georgia Sub was known as the worst of both forms of rules that were in effect for the property.  It had 'automatic block signals' however, the signal system was not trusted to the extent that trains could have 'proceed blocks' to FOLLOW a preceeding train on signal indication.  Trains had to possess and then release a block for a following train to obtain the block and operate through that block.

The Automatic Block Signal System on the A&WP/WofA was robust enough for following trains to operate on 'proceed blocks' and follow preceding trains on signal indication authorization.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Dardanellerambler on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 10:01 PM

For me it is Missouri Pacific, Rock Island, Cotton Belt in that order.  An MP branch ran within 100 ft of my house growing up, RI was the orphan line in town and Cotton Belt was all the way accross town so I had little contact with it.

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Posted by rjemery on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 10:30 PM

SD60MAC9500
 

I thoroughly enjoy fallen flags just as much as anyone else in the hobby and have my favorites. They may be cherished for; paint scheme, good freight and passenger service, work environment, or just plain good ole' PR. 

Though I want to look at this from a different perspective. The innovation these FF have brought to the table, and how modern RR's benefit from these past creations. I'll start with my list and just a brief explanantion why they are held in my personal regard:

Southern Pacific; Not only my top FF. SP is responsible for double stack technology. While they failed to capitalize on their own creation with a prototype produced by American Car Foundry. It wasn't until American President Lines and Sea-Land offered land bridge service with SP and later UP that the concept took off. Double Stacking greatly increased utilization, efficiency and train productivity.

New York Central; NYC has many innovations under it's belt from early containerization experiments in the early 1900's to Flexi-Van. The first modern hump yards utilizing automation. Along with creating the first CTC and car reader systems.

Santa Fe; The harbinger of mainline Diesel Locomotives to serve in the water stressed Southwest. Santa Fe led the charge in DEL's leading to more efficient operation. Santa Fe would later become a innovator in Intermodal. Intermodal would not have gathered its momentum without ATSF. From Fuel Foiler to the landmark deal with JB Hunt in 1989. Santa Fe set the tone for future intermodal business and successor BNSF continues this legacy. 

 

Who's on your list and why?

I suppose favorites would be where one once  lived.  For me, it’s Central New Jersey roads – Pennsylvania RR, Lehigh Valley, Reading, Jersey Central, Raritan River, Rahway Valley, New York Central, Erie, Lackawanna, Erie-Lackawanna and later in life the Santa Fe and Denver & Rio Grande Western.

I recall the great train wreck of The Broker in Woodbridge, NJ; the runaway diesel locomotive of the Jersey Central stopped in South Amboy, the B&O passenger trains riding the Jersey Central rails to Jersey City, the coal trains heading towards Perth Amboy on the Lehigh Valley branch, the old Tuscan Red PRR MUs commuter trains to Newark and Penn Station NY, and the original NY Penn Station.  After a hurricane damaged Erie’s mainline along the Delaware River, Erie’s long haul freights plied the PRR’s Northeast Corridor until normal service could be restored.  Lots more comes to mind as I reminisce.

Why?  It’s a busy bygone era that will never be seen again.

RJ Emery near Santa Fe, NM

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Posted by CRIP 4376 on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 11:37 PM

The Rock Island and the Minneapolis & St. Louis.  Dad was born by the Rock Island tracks.  Mom was born on a farm where the M&StL cut through the corner.  I was born in a town that had both railroads.  If I die on my property, it will be next to the BNSF.

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Posted by DJMF on Wednesday, August 4, 2021 8:21 AM

I'll second the Mineapolis and St. Louis.  I remember their red locomotive led trains passing a lake we lived on in Albert Lea, MN.  Always thought it interesting that their their principal line was Minneapolis - Peoria, but technically never made it to St. Louis.  Just like the Frisco never made it to San Francisco I suppose. Similarily, did the CB&Q really go "Everywhere West"?  Or, why did the Rock include "Pacific" in their name?  If I had to guess, friendly connections coupled with operating agreements may have given license to proclaim an expanded system.  Not a rant, just an observation.  

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Posted by Ruppert Baird on Wednesday, August 4, 2021 8:48 AM

Wow. So many to choose from (sadly).

Class 1's: SAL. I live very near the old SAL Columbia-Hamlet line and cut my teeth railfanning the SCL there growing up.

Frisco. Grew up for a little while in Amory, MS on the SL-SF mainline.

Rio Grande. 'Nuff said.

Shortlines: Piedmont & Northern. The South's only interurban, and built well and in the right places. While much of it has been sold off, it is almost still complete in the hands of shortlines.

Oahu Railway. The Standard Railroad Of The Pacific. A truly amazing railroad on Oahu in Hawaii. 12 miles still exist in the hands of the Hawaiian Railway Society. I had the pleasure to work on the line for 3 years.

Columbia, Newberry & Laurens. A heavy-duty funnel for ACL traffic that is still a major CSX route.

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Posted by RKFarms on Wednesday, August 4, 2021 1:19 PM

It's all  personal to me. No 1: Monon-close to home, first passenger trips, family worked for them. No. 2: Rock Island-most passenger trips, ran through back our HS campus so watched trains there often. No. 3 tied:Wabash and Nickel Plate-the other two lines that were close to home and often watched. 

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Wednesday, August 4, 2021 5:53 PM

I can't believe I forgot my other top FF. The Great Northern. The GN is responsible for setting the groundwork for our beautiful National Park system with the establishment of Glacier National Park. The first private construction of a transcon without land grants. GN was the epitome of efficiency building out as traffic and resources allowed. 

Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by ATSFGuy on Wednesday, August 4, 2021 6:43 PM

Here's my list:

 

Santa Fe

Southern Pacific

Burlington Northern

Chicago Burlington & Quincy

Gulf Mobile & Ohio

Denver & Rio Grande Western

Missouri Pacific Lines

Missouri Kansas Texas Lines

Texas & Pacific

Rock Island

Milwaukee Road

Kansas City Southern

Louisville & Nashville

New York Central

Pennsylvania

Erie

Lackawanna

Baltimore & Ohio

Chesapeake & Ohio

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Posted by DANIEL USCIAN on Friday, August 6, 2021 11:25 AM

Illinois Terminal has my vote.  It may not have been the largest interurban railroad (that was the Pacific Electric), but it apparently had the longest distant lines you could ride over.

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Posted by Ed Kyle on Friday, August 6, 2021 10:18 PM

Toledo, St. Louis & Western - "The Clover Leaf Route", home of "The Commercial Traveler", merged into NKP in 1922. 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Friday, August 6, 2021 11:00 PM

Kewaunee, Green Bay & Western.

With the Ann Arbor and their ferries to Kewaunee on the east end, and the Milwaukee Road at Winona on the west end, fast freight auto parts to the St. Paul Ford Plant presaged just-in-time delivery. The freights were pulled by 1929-built 2-8-0s and 1936-built 2-8-2s with 64-inch Boxpok drivers.

https://www.midcontinent.org/equipment-roster/steam-locomotives/kewaunee-green-bay-western-49/21-2-tif/

https://www.steamlocomotive.com/whyte/2-8-2/USA/photos/gbw401-builders.jpg

http://w.greenbayroute.com/s_402_1938.htm

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Posted by Sunnyland on Thursday, September 23, 2021 3:27 PM

Of  course mine has to be the Frisco.  Mom was 3rd generation to work for them after her grandpa came from Ireland and laid track for them in MO.  All 5 sons went to work for them, 4 as conductors freight and then passengers, incl. my grandpa, one stayed as switchman, daughter married an engineer.  Mom went to work for them too as keypuncher at General Office in St. Louis, met Dad at company picnic, he started at freight house and later Lindenwood Yard and the office. Only reason I did not was because they were moving most of office staff to Springfield, MO and I do not want to do that.  So we were definitely a Frisco family and why I have that as my logo and screename. Sunnyland was their last passenger train to Memphis and farther south.  Stopped running in 1967 so they never joined Amtrak.  I do like others too, like SP which took us part way to CA 3 times  on their combined City of St. Louis with UP. Others we took trips on Dad's pass, B&O, IC, Wabash, Pennsy, NYC, ACL, and the original CZ with WP, RG, and Q.But that last one was with tour group, Dad could not get pass for that and never rode Santa Fe for that reason either. Friends and I rode with CP and CN in Canada, never been on VIA. They are not fallen flags except for their passenger trains. Same with UP

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Posted by ccltrains on Friday, September 24, 2021 3:31 PM

My favorite railroad is the hard luck Wheeling Pittsburgh Terminal.  When Gould was assembling his transcontinental railroad he had a gap that he had to build.  His transcontinental rail line consisted of the WP, D&RGW, MP, Wabash, NKP, W&LE, WPT, and WM.  He had a gap between Pittsburgh Junction Ohio and Connellsville PA.  He assembled this group of lines and built the WPT between Pittsburgh Junction and Pittsburgh.  Then a financial panic hit and Gould lost his railroads.  Several years later the stretch between and Pittsburgh and Connellsville was completed, but the Gould transcontinental idea had died.  Thanks to bankruptcy and buy outs/sales the WPT morphed from WPT to P&WV, N&W, NS, and finally being part of the reconstituted W&LE.  I saw part of the dismantling of the WPT bridge at the end of WW 2  over the Monongahela river at Pittsburgh and 12 years later I walked their bridge over the Ohio river as we lived just north of the river crossing.  Do not recommend this as I met a train coming my way.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Friday, September 24, 2021 11:16 PM

My favorite is the Northern Pacific!!  I hired out on the NP in 1966 and retired from the BNSF in 2004, all as a clerk in Minneapolis Yards.

Ed Burns

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