Perhaps the new regulations for diesel truck engines that became effective on December 20, 2022 just before Christmas will have some impact on modal shift.
https://www.epa.gov/regulations-emissions-vehicles-and-engines/final-rule-and-related-materials-control-air-pollution
Some additional reading material:
https://www.railwayage.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Soroban-PresentationtoUnionPacificsBoardofDirectors.pdf
I for one will be interested to see where decarbonization enabling comes in with maximizing shareholder return.
Vena decided he didn't want the CN CEO job after TCI nominated him for it a year or so ago. Was he holding out for this UP position, or does he just want to stay retired and enjoy his golden parachutes?
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Just for the heck of it I pulled a couple of key pieces of data from 2022 Financial Reports:
CP
Total Revenues $8.814 Billion, Net Income $3.517 Billion, Net Income % of Revenues 39.90%, Operating Ratio 62.2, Carloads 2.782 Million (Net Income includes some one-time items related to KCS aquisition)
CN
Total Revenues, $17.578 Billion, Net Income $5.118 Billion, Net Income % of Revenues 29.12%, Operating Ratio 60.0, Carloads 5.697 Million
NS
Total Revenues $12.758 Billion, Net Income $3.270 Billion, Net Income % of Revenues 25.63%, Operating Ratio 62.3, Carloads 6.835 Million
CSX
Total Revenues $14.986 Billion, Net Income $4.166 Billion, Net Income % of Revenues 27.80%, Operating Ratio 59.5, Carloads 6.218 Million
UP
Total Revenues $25.301 Billion, Net Income $6.998 Billion, Net Income % of Revenues 27.66%, Operating Ratio 60.1, Carloads 8.169 Million
BNSF
Total Revenues $25.888 Billion, Net Income $5.946 Billion, Net Income % of Revenues 22.97%, Operating Ratio 65.9, Carloads 9.549 Million
With all the dubvious finger pointing by the political knotheads and know-nothings, why not just throw the SEC into the mix and investigate Soroban and Vena?
CN's new CEO recently said (paraphrasing) that they were focusing on volume growth and less so on operating ratio going forward. Time will tell.
jeffhergert They kicked Vena out allegedly because he refused some westbound grain business. All because it would've required more people and equipment than his (and EHH's) vision of running a balanced system allows. Only have on hand enough people and equipment to run a set, predetermined amount of volume in each direction. Don't have any reserve for temporary upswings or new business. Nevermind that it would bring in revenue and more money in their pocket. The rumors were that BlackRock was the single largest investor, that they had Vena brought in. After they sold some of their holdings and Vanguard became the top dog, they wanted to see more volume and revenue growth. That's when Vena was "allowed to walk away" by not renewing his contract. I was hoping once Vena was out they would've actually tried to go after more business and increase volumes. They talked, and still talk, about needing growth, but mostly it's still cuts where ever they can. Any new business seems to be the "low hanging/easy to handle" type. The kind of performance that Soroban Capital cares about is purely financial. Vena won't improve the railroad, except maybe by running off more customers. Jeff
They kicked Vena out allegedly because he refused some westbound grain business. All because it would've required more people and equipment than his (and EHH's) vision of running a balanced system allows. Only have on hand enough people and equipment to run a set, predetermined amount of volume in each direction. Don't have any reserve for temporary upswings or new business. Nevermind that it would bring in revenue and more money in their pocket.
The rumors were that BlackRock was the single largest investor, that they had Vena brought in. After they sold some of their holdings and Vanguard became the top dog, they wanted to see more volume and revenue growth. That's when Vena was "allowed to walk away" by not renewing his contract.
I was hoping once Vena was out they would've actually tried to go after more business and increase volumes. They talked, and still talk, about needing growth, but mostly it's still cuts where ever they can. Any new business seems to be the "low hanging/easy to handle" type.
The kind of performance that Soroban Capital cares about is purely financial. Vena won't improve the railroad, except maybe by running off more customers.
Jeff
+1
Soroban’s presentation makes some compelling points.
Fred Frailey recognized this in his epic October 20, 2019 blog post “Whatever Happened To UP?”
It is true that underlying the volume growth performance of UP (and BNSF) that has been referenced by Soroban has been the continued precipitous decline in PRB coal loads and Colorado coal loads as more and more coal plants are retired each year. This was high-volume-low-operating-cost business that was a significant double-digit percentage of all UP loads not all that long ago.
But it is up to management to figure out how to make the transition to a low-coal-loads world, which necessitates figuring how to generate volume in other load categories of the railroad.
Investor looking to boot Lance Fritz. Chasing 55 looks to be chasing Lance out the door..
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/union-pacific-to-seek-new-ceo-after-hedge-fund-prods-board-of-directors/
Here is UP's list of embargoes:
https://www.up.com/customers/embargo/list/index.htm
and for reference here is AAR Circular TD-1, with its list of all the things an embargo can't be:
https://public.railinc.com/sites/default/files/documents/TD-1.pdf
https://www.up.com/customers/announcements/customernews/allcustomernews/CN2023-5.html
tree68 I suspect a better moniker for the top level folks would be "financial analysts."
I suspect a better moniker for the top level folks would be "financial analysts."
My take is that an accountants primary job is to produce an accurate report that accounts for where the money came and where it went out. Part of that role is to keep the folks who sign the checks honest. Sophisticated bookkeeping, bt a job that needs to be done.
A financial analyst would be more like an actuary in trying to get a better idea of where the profits and losses are coming from. FWIW, my daughter started college working on a degree in actuarial math and decided to switch to financial math after meeting a few actuarials. One application for financial analysis is trying to get an accurate number for the incremental costs in running a train - which is much easier said than done.
tree68I suspect a better moniker for the top level folks would be "financial analysts." They look at the numbers and try to figure out how to make them look better (ie, cutting services, etc).
With the obligatory MBA degree, a.k.a. MBAhole.
In public 'Wall Street' facing companies, their tools seem to be limited to cost cutting and stock buy-backs. Anything else would upset the generic outside 'analyst' and cause a stock price disruption.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
tree68 BaltACD There is a element of 'top level' operating management that considers themselves 'bean counters'. Real accountants need not apply even though they have no more understanding of real operations than do the 'bean counters' I have mentioned. Accountants count, simple as that. I suspect a better moniker for the top level folks would be "financial analysts." They look at the numbers and try to figure out how to make them look better (ie, cutting services, etc).
BaltACD There is a element of 'top level' operating management that considers themselves 'bean counters'. Real accountants need not apply even though they have no more understanding of real operations than do the 'bean counters' I have mentioned.
Accountants count, simple as that.
I suspect a better moniker for the top level folks would be "financial analysts." They look at the numbers and try to figure out how to make them look better (ie, cutting services, etc).
They only know the numbers. Not what the numbers represent.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDThere is a element of 'top level' operating management that considers themselves 'bean counters'. Real accountants need not apply even though they have no more understanding of real operations than do the 'bean counters' I have mentioned.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
CSSHEGEWISCHThe accountants would not have any input into the decision-making, their function is to ensure that the data used is accurate.
There is a element of 'top level' operating management that considers themselves 'bean counters'. Real accountants need not apply even though they have no more understanding of real operations than do the 'bean counters' I have mentioned.
The accountants would not have any input into the decision-making, their function is to ensure that the data used is accurate.
jeffhergert charlie hebdo The pilot plan was put on hold...for the time being. https://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/html5/mobile/production/default.aspx?edid=ecccb5b0-cfa5-498a-b1ce-ae1fa1ac21da I couldn't get the article, but if it's about the "expediter" test - yes it's been tabled for now. I guess they have been trying something like that somewhere down on the southern portion of the railroad. The one who was telling me about it said they were tearing up too many trucks (probably tires) getting to the trains. Meanwhile, the UP wants to suspend temporarily the signal system out west on a small portion of mainline. Track conditions on short stretch of main line in Nevada prompt UP to seek permission to temporarily deactivate signals and CTC - Trains Jeff
charlie hebdo The pilot plan was put on hold...for the time being. https://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/html5/mobile/production/default.aspx?edid=ecccb5b0-cfa5-498a-b1ce-ae1fa1ac21da I couldn't get the article, but if it's about the "expediter" test - yes it's been tabled for now. I guess they have been trying something like that somewhere down on the southern portion of the railroad. The one who was telling me about it said they were tearing up too many trucks (probably tires) getting to the trains. Meanwhile, the UP wants to suspend temporarily the signal system out west on a small portion of mainline. Track conditions on short stretch of main line in Nevada prompt UP to seek permission to temporarily deactivate signals and CTC - Trains Jeff
The pilot plan was put on hold...for the time being.
https://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/html5/mobile/production/default.aspx?edid=ecccb5b0-cfa5-498a-b1ce-ae1fa1ac21da
I couldn't get the article, but if it's about the "expediter" test - yes it's been tabled for now. I guess they have been trying something like that somewhere down on the southern portion of the railroad. The one who was telling me about it said they were tearing up too many trucks (probably tires) getting to the trains.
Meanwhile, the UP wants to suspend temporarily the signal system out west on a small portion of mainline.
Track conditions on short stretch of main line in Nevada prompt UP to seek permission to temporarily deactivate signals and CTC - Trains
The 'bean counter' element that come up with such ideas have no idea what world the real world of railroad actually exists in, with probably 30% of the Class 1 properties being UNACCESSABLE except by rail.
So there's no service west of the Pecos. Take your complaints to Judge Roy Bean.
UP's Pecos River Bridge at Santa Rosa, NM is currently out.
https://www.up.com/customers/announcements/customernews/allcustomernews/CN2023-4.html
BaltACDThe video was of a MofW group of employees
I was referring to the road conductor video and his dod...err...RAM pickup.
Not Ron's video.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmannI like how they have a truck full of tools on that video. Like most conductors are going to be changing out traction motors on the main.
The video was of a MofW group of employees - don't know what their railroad purpose was that had brought them to the location where they got stuck. There are myriad of railroad locations that are not routinely accessable by other than rail access. The 'flying utiltity man' is a figment of cost cutters brain damaged minds.
I like how they have a truck full of tools on that video. Like most conductors are going to be changing out traction motors on the main.
Murphy SidingAs an outsider looking in, I wonder if the railroads' immediate plans are to replace two higher trained (and higher paid) people in the cab with one higher trained & paid and one lesser trained & paid? You'd still have those two sets of eyes in the cab. You'd still have somebody to walk the train. It would probably be easier to find someone for the position. Those that showed promise could still become engineers, they just wouldn't have to be forced to. You coul give the position a new name. Maybe fireman?
The railroads immediate plans - if they got their 'dreams' is one minimaly paid pair of eyes in the cab - training; who you trying to kid. And if they are forced into it, one minimally paid 'utility man' per thousand square miles.
As an outsider looking in, I wonder if the railroads' immediate plans are to replace two higher trained (and higher paid) people in the cab with one higher trained & paid and one lesser trained & paid? You'd still have those two sets of eyes in the cab. You'd still have somebody to walk the train. It would probably be easier to find someone for the position. Those that showed promise could still become engineers, they just wouldn't have to be forced to. You coul give the position a new name. Maybe fireman?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
MidlandMike Could access to a remote rail location be handled by a ground based conductor in a high-rail vehicle gaining rail access at a nearby road crossing?
Could access to a remote rail location be handled by a ground based conductor in a high-rail vehicle gaining rail access at a nearby road crossing?
On multiple tracked segments it would save time, if they want to give the track away adjacent to the train that is stopped. On single track lines the utility will be able to reach either the front or back, and still have to walk the train. (Best to approach from the back in this case. Can't pull the train ahead to pick up the knuckle if the hi-rail truck is in front of the engine.)
Often on multiple tracked lines other trains can give a ride and/or drop off tools or knuckles. It's also possible under specific conditions to back up to get the conductor on the head end.
I noticed the track side access road they put in when they restored the second main in western Iowa years ago was snowed in. Some spots looked like it might be hard for a 4WD vehicle to transit.
As to the person riding on the rear end. I'm not sure anyone would want to ride the end of a 3 mile long whip. We're not allowed to deadhead on distributed power units because of the potential slack action.
BaltACD What follows is a video that is representative of the kind of locations where access is gained to the track. Imagine this location on a dark rainy night. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCyecX4hIW8
What follows is a video that is representative of the kind of locations where access is gained to the track. Imagine this location on a dark rainy night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCyecX4hIW8
And now add just a few inches of snow, especially with wind blowing.
In fact I have seen some actual public roads that are similar to this farm track, where the farmer is farming a substantial part of the road allowance width.
MidlandMikeCould access to a remote rail location be handled by a ground based conductor in a high-rail vehicle gaining rail access at a nearby road crossing?
Getting hi-rail vehicles in the same track segment with trains becomes a very ticklish from a rules and Dispatching standpoint, at this point in time Utility Trainmen ARE NOT trained to be able operate under Track Car Authorities. Yes the can be trained, however, you will be dealing, most likely, with the youngest most inexperienced on the roster. I can see nothing but safety issues, for all concerned.
PennsyBoomer The accessibility problem for reaching a train in remote locations might be addressed by adding a small car at the rear of a train in which a utility condr. could travel as sort of an occupied rear-end device.
The accessibility problem for reaching a train in remote locations might be addressed by adding a small car at the rear of a train in which a utility condr. could travel as sort of an occupied rear-end device.
Well played sir...
PennsyBoomerThe accessibility problem for reaching a train in remote locations might be addressed by adding a small car at the rear of a train in which a utility condr. could travel as sort of an occupied rear-end device.
There's probably still a few cabeese around...
Also wanted to ad the obvious safety factor. There is no equivalent between an OTR truck with one or two trailers and a tonnage consist of a hundred or more trailers or cars. Moreover, who ties a train down if the engr. runs out of time but there's no utility man nearby? PTC sounds great, but my impression is that the majority of events since the advent of PTC have been circumstances where restricted speed was called for and PTC of little use - but a second crew member arguably essential. The accessibility problem for reaching a train in remote locations might be addressed by adding a small car at the rear of a train in which a utility condr. could travel as sort of an occupied rear-end device.
The theory sounds fine until one comes against the real world. What about weather? How does a utility condr. access a disabled train if the roads are impassable or weather warnings preclude travel, much less the aforementioned difficulty in accessing remote locations? Multiple events that staffing will most surely not accommodate may quickly snarl a railroad. I suspect trains will just have to be tied down until there are adequate dogctach crews and dogcatch utility persons or available vehicles. After all, that seems to be the modus operandi nowadays - tie trains down and complain about "congestion". On a good day the remote conductor theory works. There are good days but enough that aren't so good. Management discloses its naivety and insulation from the ebb and flow of its operation to an extent that it is staggering. It is tempting to suggest letting the carriers economize themselves into oblivion, but that would be wrong.
I believe it was the 1972 agreement that required trainmen to be offered any slots for engine service that opened up. The 1985 agreement calls for all trainmen hired after that date would be subject to going to engine service. After 1985 you had to start as a trainman first, generally speaking. I know of some engineers who hired on in the early 1990s who went through conductor training but never worked as one. They were promoted on a Friday and started engineer training the next Monday.
Currently for us, as long as there are enough junior people willing to go to engine service they won't force someone to go. There's 4 out of my 1998 trainmen's class still working and 2 of them never went to engine service.
Other railroads may do it differently.
BaltACDAt the present time anyone that is hired on as a Conductor is required to go into Engineer training...
Kinda reminds me of the military, as well as the "Peter Principal." In both cases, someone who is perfectly competent at a given job ends up with a promotion into a position they are clearly incapable of holding. In the military, if you want more pay, you have to get promoted, which can change you from a worker bee to a supervisor, whether you want to or not.
Those interested in the Peter Principle are invited to seek out a copy of Laurence Peter's book. The "percussive sublimation" is an interesting practice...
PJS1What percentage of conductors go on to become engineers? If a conductor who aspired to be an engineer worked on the ground, as opposed to the cab, would it lengthen the amount of training he/she would need to qualify as an engineer?
If a conductor who aspired to be an engineer worked on the ground, as opposed to the cab, would it lengthen the amount of training he/she would need to qualify as an engineer?
I may be mistaken.
At the present time anyone that is hired on as a Conductor is required to go into Engineer training 'when their seniority is called'. If they don't they are terminated. If they start Engineer training and FAIL, they are terminated.
The Carriers over the recent decades have eliminated the positions that once provided 'on the job training' for employees to progress from 'off the street' to becoming knowledgable, productive and safe employees in positions of responsibility.
What percentage of conductors go on to become engineers?
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
According to the video: Sam is busy with a variety of "planned activities" when a train has an unexpected event.
So, what are the planned activities? Yard utility? Crew transporter? And are these activities one Sam can leave at the drop of a hat to go help a road train?
And if these positions do get implemented, are us people who have been with the railroad for several years going to have the chance to hold these jobs?
I don't know how it is with other places - but our utilities are always the first jobs they cut when things get slightly tight. Or when a new supervisor comes in.
Sam is going on duty at the Missouri Valley IA depot. Sam is looking at a PTC screen that is not active, still cut out. County Road 24 looks a lot like the depot crossing at Missouri Valley. It looks like the engineer dropped off an E knuckle, but Sam's replacement knuckle was an F. Which is what that car would need.
Driving the train is great. One problem, much of the main tracks on the exCNW lines don't have trackside roads. Even paralleling public roads are sometimes far from the tracks. A train will still have to wait the time, probably hours-especially if numerous trains are having problems, for the "expediter" to arrive and then walk the train.
How many "expediters" will they have? One every 50 miles? Every 100 miles? After the first slow day they will want to increase their territories and reduce the number of them available.
Reading the recrew report, a train at Sydney NE had mechanical problems with a locomotive. Sydney was once the crew change between North Platte and Cheyenne. There had been a roving mechanical department person (Called a Foreman General on the original UP side, MIC-Mechanic In Charge on exCNW side.) assigned there until they needed more cuts. That FG's position, along with others was cut. The train waited 3 hours for the FG out of South Morrill NE to show up.
I noticed the comments were turned off.
P.S. Even E Hunter Harrison didn't want single person crews.
SD60MAC9500UP will be running a trial using one man crews in certain territories with ground based "expeditiors". Video below details the position and a typical day.. Per say... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hr15dtWwGU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hr15dtWwGU
Better hope their signal system is FAIL PROOF. Lets hear Defect Detector finding Defects.
UP will be running a trial using one man crews in certain territories with ground based "expeditors". Video below details the position and a typical day.. Per say...
Well here's some clever thinking. CMA-CGM and Union Pacific are teaming up to move California's almond crop via the Ports of LA/LB. Current capacity limitations out the Port of Oakland have led to this new service.
Two new IM services were created in the process. Empty boxes at the Port of Oakland are drayed to the Central Valley. There they get stuffed with almonds for export via POLA/POLB. The boxes are then drayed back to POO for loading on a new IM service UP has started.
Also a second service from the Central Valley. The same scenario with draying empties from POO happens as well. This generates matchback loads of export Califronia dairy products via POLA/POLB. This serivce has added containers stuffed with almond to its service. Both trains operate once a week. In total 400 boxes/week between both trains are moved south for export.
https://ajot.com/insights/full/ai-blue-diamond-almond-growers-spearhead-almond-express-rail-service-to-ports-of-la-and-lb
Nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go......
I hope the Fail Safe design is thoughly thought out.
Do they ever get ice or snow on that route?
jeffhergertI have a feeling that there may not be anyone in the cab, but that there will be an entourage of technicians close at hand. At least in the beginning. Jeff
To document and spin any incident that happens.
I have a feeling that there may not be anyone in the cab, but that there will be an entourage of technicians close at hand. At least in the beginning.
550 miles in real test service- what a joke. I would have expected 5,500+ miles in real testing before putting this on the road. AZ driver's better check your rear view mirror.
SD60MAC9500 Union Pacific will be the first railroad in the world to begin autonomous drayage. TuSimple will provide L4 fully autonomous (No Driver on board) drayage on an 80 mile trip between Phoenix and Tucso, AZ. Service begins this spring. https://www.up.com/media/releases/tusimple-tucson-phoenix-nr-220202.htm
Union Pacific will be the first railroad in the world to begin autonomous drayage. TuSimple will provide L4 fully autonomous (No Driver on board) drayage on an 80 mile trip between Phoenix and Tucso, AZ. Service begins this spring.
https://www.up.com/media/releases/tusimple-tucson-phoenix-nr-220202.htm
I looked at one of the short videos. I noticed on the back of the trailer that they were hiring.
SD60MAC9500 Well 12,000 boxes is half of Schnieder's entire fleet so sounds fairly significant to me. That said I think BNSF will struggle to replace Schneider's revenue with additional loads from other carriers. Losing the contract has to hurt. Shadow the Cats owner I looked at both Swift Schneider intermodal traffic revenue then compared it to JB Hunt for the same time frame as in quarterly basis. Their combined revenue is less than half of JB Hunts revenue for the same time. I get the impression that BNSF is not going to be hurting for traffic and it will still be able to increase the amount of traffic it's getting from companies like Amazon or Walmart or FedEx even more. Losing SCHNL, KNX, and APL will knock out 15% of BNSF's intermodal traffic. That's fairly large. Yes Amazon, Walmart, and FedEx can put more traffic online yet it won't fill that gap. While JBH commands BNSF capacity for obvious reasons they only plan on an additonal 12,000 boxes coming online this year.
Well 12,000 boxes is half of Schnieder's entire fleet so sounds fairly significant to me. That said I think BNSF will struggle to replace Schneider's revenue with additional loads from other carriers. Losing the contract has to hurt.
Shadow the Cats owner I looked at both Swift Schneider intermodal traffic revenue then compared it to JB Hunt for the same time frame as in quarterly basis. Their combined revenue is less than half of JB Hunts revenue for the same time. I get the impression that BNSF is not going to be hurting for traffic and it will still be able to increase the amount of traffic it's getting from companies like Amazon or Walmart or FedEx even more.
I looked at both Swift Schneider intermodal traffic revenue then compared it to JB Hunt for the same time frame as in quarterly basis. Their combined revenue is less than half of JB Hunts revenue for the same time. I get the impression that BNSF is not going to be hurting for traffic and it will still be able to increase the amount of traffic it's getting from companies like Amazon or Walmart or FedEx even more.
Losing SCHNL, KNX, and APL will knock out 15% of BNSF's intermodal traffic. That's fairly large. Yes Amazon, Walmart, and FedEx can put more traffic online yet it won't fill that gap. While JBH commands BNSF capacity for obvious reasons they only plan on an additonal 12,000 boxes coming online this year.
Your forgetting the biggest elephant in the room. For the last 3 years UPS has been forced to run OTR teams on west coast runs due to lack of space on BNSF trains. They need the extra space for them also. JB Hunt is adding 12K more to their fleet that is half of what Schneider alone has. Walmart wants to double their fleet Amazon is adding containers as fast as they can. Trust me the loss of these customers is not going to be felt long term. Short term they may feel it but with the free space they will have for their trains someone will be wanting it.
Ok this is pretty significant. UP has landed the Schneider Intermodal contract. As an IMC (Intermodal Marketing Company) Schneider has one of the largest domestic fleets of 53's at over 25,000 containers. The contract will make UP the primary mover of western lanes beginning in Jan of 2023.
This is the third IM contract UP has landed in a year. First SWIFT Intermodal, then APL Logistics both of those contracts have begun as of this month.
UP seems to be getting pretty competitive in the IM space if that's the case. This is nice to see someone finally challenge BNSF. With the Schneider contract CSX handles this traffic primarily in the east. Exisitng UP-CSX interline will streamline this service vs. BNSF.
Be careful if you google "UP Weed Train" at work :D
BaltACD jeffhergert BaltACD And therein it creates the question - is the spray train a Train and moved about with T&E personnel or is it a piece of MofW equipment and operated by MofW personnel on 'track car' authorities? It's run with MOW personnel. Even though the power unit is a locomotive in all respects except name and maybe appearance. When it's operated the first out engineer, extra board or pool depending on which board normally protects work trains, has been instructed by our union to put in a time claim for a runaround. Jeff So it does not run on Signal Indication or Track Warrants for trains - just MofW track occupancy authorities the same as the Track Inspector and his hi-rail pick-up truck.
jeffhergert BaltACD And therein it creates the question - is the spray train a Train and moved about with T&E personnel or is it a piece of MofW equipment and operated by MofW personnel on 'track car' authorities? It's run with MOW personnel. Even though the power unit is a locomotive in all respects except name and maybe appearance. When it's operated the first out engineer, extra board or pool depending on which board normally protects work trains, has been instructed by our union to put in a time claim for a runaround. Jeff
BaltACD And therein it creates the question - is the spray train a Train and moved about with T&E personnel or is it a piece of MofW equipment and operated by MofW personnel on 'track car' authorities?
And therein it creates the question - is the spray train a Train and moved about with T&E personnel or is it a piece of MofW equipment and operated by MofW personnel on 'track car' authorities?
It's run with MOW personnel. Even though the power unit is a locomotive in all respects except name and maybe appearance.
When it's operated the first out engineer, extra board or pool depending on which board normally protects work trains, has been instructed by our union to put in a time claim for a runaround.
So it does not run on Signal Indication or Track Warrants for trains - just MofW track occupancy authorities the same as the Track Inspector and his hi-rail pick-up truck.
AFAIK, it operates as a piece of MOW equipment. A BIG piece of equipment.
I would opine that they have a very long wheelbase for straight tanks. There are doors in the ends, leaving the possibility of a number of smaller tanks inside those carbodies.
Perhaps the walkways are to allow personnel to travel the length of the train without being exposed to the chemicals therein...
Anyone know what the cars in the center of the train are for? The ones that look like they have a walking platform going down the center on top. Are they just box-shaped tanks that contain the weed killer, or something else?
SD60MAC9500UP's new MoW toy for spraying weeds. Looks pretty fancy.
UP's new MoW toy for spraying weeds. Looks pretty fancy.
For us, you start out with the rule books. We have three. General Code of Operating Rules, Air Brake and Train Handling Rules, and Safety Rules. MOW and dispatchers also have rules that pertain to them.
There is also an Instructions for Handling Hazardous Materials book.
System Special Instructions, along with containing operating instructions, can be used to modify or replace rules and instructions from the rule books.
System General Orders modify the SSI, including rule changes and additions.
We have time tables issued for operating areas. They don't necessarily correspond to service unit/division boundries. (I carry three. Iowa, Council Bluffs, and Kansas City Area ETTs. If I was on the extra board, I would also need a Chicago and Twin Cities Area ETTs. Even though on some I would operate less than a couple of miles on one subdivision.)
Each subdivision has it's own general order. I maintain copies for each subdivision I do, or possibly might operate on. Some of that "might" could be just turning power on a wye at the junction point.
Then there are Superintendent's bulletins. It has combined bulletins that used to be issued by the superintendent and those issued by local managers. They have different bulletins for different topics, but even so, some site specific bulletins are 15 or more pages long. With only one or two paragraphs within those 15 pages actually pertaining to what I need to know.
Of them all, only the Superintendent bulletins aren't required to be physically carried. I only carry a few of them, ones those that I might need to reference more often.
That's why I thought giving the electronic version a try. Until it became obvious it was easier and quicker to use the hard copy versions of most items.
Last of all are track bulletins. They can modify all of the above.
Notification for changes in rules, SSI and general orders (system and subdivision) and bulletins are easily observed on the employee's website. Even the Zebra device easily shows that an update/change as been made.
Electroliner 1935 WHen changes are made to rules, timetable, or whatever, is there some indication that they have changed and when they changed.
WHen changes are made to rules, timetable, or whatever, is there some indication that they have changed and when they changed.
This is why we attend regular rules classes.
When NORAC 11th Edition came out, there was someone who reviewed all the changes and summarized them. It was not an official document, but was helpful.
As Balt points out, interim changes can take many forms. Oftimes they'll work through the various levels of publications (bulletin orders, division notices, general orders, etc, depending on the RR) before a new edition of the rules is finally published.
Electroliner 1935WHen changes are made to rules, timetable, or whatever, is there some indication that they have changed and when they changed.
The primary obstacle to having all things 'auto updated' is that not all things get updated under every circumstance.
Rules can be modified by Time Table Special Instructions which can be modified by General Bulletin Orders (or what each carrier calls them) which can be modified by Train Messages.
A TTSI can be in effect on one Subdivision but not on another. Bulletin Orders can be in effect for specific subdivisions but not on others.
Getting all applicable rules/instructions together and into the MIND of the employees operating on any particular territory - in time so that they do the correct thing as specified in the multiple levels of instruction.
Most major airlines have issued flight crew iPads, etc, and all the charts, rulebooks, are on there. It saves carrying the big briefcase around and having to update pages every month or so.
zugmann BaltACD In many cases, trying to find something on a electronic device is a never ending rabbit hole wasting both time and effort. Takes about 3 seconds to find something in ours. Just type whatever in the search bar and the results all pop out to read. *shrugs*
BaltACD In many cases, trying to find something on a electronic device is a never ending rabbit hole wasting both time and effort.
Takes about 3 seconds to find something in ours. Just type whatever in the search bar and the results all pop out to read. *shrugs*
Just about everything the Zebra can and will be able to do, can currently be done on the employee's website when on a company computer terminal. It would've been much easier to just have the device open up that site than develope this new app "stuff." Although, readability would still be a problem. But on the website you can look at iindividual subdivision page(s), you don't have to scroll through the entire timetable.
And the web site has a search box. No search function on the Zebra.
BaltACDIn many cases, trying to find something on a electronic device is a never ending rabbit hole wasting both time and effort.
There are times and places for electronic devices. BUT, that is not everywhere all the time. In many cases, trying to find something on a electronic device is a never ending rabbit hole wasting both time and effort.
I'll be waiting for the FRA to ban even company supplied electronic devices when they become the primary cause for some catastrophic accident they investigate.
Right now it's conductors that have the most applications that are available. All engineers can do now is access rule books, time tables and bulletins, etc. We can also look up van status.
Conductors can do all the things on the Zebra (the maker of the phone/computer) that they can do on the company computer terminals. (Engineers have that access, but we aren't the ones to update lists, etc.)
Eventually, it's going to replace the yard office terminals. We'll be able to tie up jobs, do any engine inspection reporting, etc. on the device. Something they think will be better and save costs.
For me, it's a worthless piece of ... . One engineer was gushing on how he no longer needed to carry a paper time table. If he needed to look something up he just got out his Zebra. I was going to try to go that route because my shoulder bag is getting too heavy. I've got all our crap set up on my device, but it's a lot easier and quicker to grab the hard copies to look something up than to use the device. Not to mention so much easier to read, even with the zoom feature. So I still carry all the hard copies in my bag.
The only good thing is access to the rule books and special instructions. They are completely updated when a change comes out. The time table is not. Any changes made by general order don't appear on the time table itself. You still have to check general order changes and then reference the time table.
We're allowed to access the device at the controls of a moving engine to access rules, time tables, etc. Until it becomes easier and quicker to use, I think it's unsafe to do so.
It's just more weight in my bag for right now.
UP has launched a new app for TEY personnel called Digicrew. The app allows features such as; manifest, equimpemnt location, etc.. Jeff and other UP TEY. Have you used this app yet? Do you feel it will make your job easier or more stressful?
More info here
Well here it is! UP's new "pop up" IM ramp in Colton is up and running. This ramp is essentially a conversion of a former LOUP logistics transload. This facility is only going to handle roughly 40K lifts per annum to start. With the eventual goal of over a million down the road. If UP can grow this market BNSF will finally have competition in the arena.
Reputation carries weight... Looks like UP forgot that part..
https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Union-Pacific-RVW39662273.htm
https://www.klamathfallsnews.org/news/union-pacific-tracks-heavily-damaged-in-lava-fire Track will be out of service tentatively until September. I imagine UP will detour over BNSF.
Also... UP derailment in Brewster, MN
https://www.dglobe.com/news/7107716-Multiple-cars-derail-on-Union-Pacific-line-near-Brewster
They do a sort of directional traffic with some trains going to the Twin Cities. The MNPSS usually goes east across Iowa on the exCNW then heads north on the exRI. The MSSNP usually comes south on the exOmaha/CNW route to California Jct then heads west.
There's a manifest that originates in Council Bluffs that seems to be routed via Boone/Mason City for awhile, then goes via Sioux City IA/St. James MN.
We signed an interdivisional agreement a few years ago that would allow a Boone crew to run through Mason City to South St. Paul. They could then be ran back south via either route, to Mason City/Boone or to Sioux City. If they tied up at Sioux City they would have to be deadheaded on home to Boone. They ran one Boone crew to S.St.Paul, with a pilot crew north of Mason City. They have ran a few S.St.Paul crews to Des Moines or Boone, then I believe they deadheaded them back north. Outside of those tests, it hasn't been put into effect because most trains couldn't make it over both crew districts within 12 hours. So no one's really qualified to actually do it without pilots.
I drove from the Black Hills in SD to the Twin Cities on July 10. The route from I-90 at Worthington MN to the Twin Cities parallels the UP former Omaha Road all the way. Just south of Brewster MN there was a northbound unit grain train in the siding (with a Ferromex SD70ACe in the 3-unit power consist) waiting for a meet with an approaching southbound manifest.
The southbound manifest had a decent cut of 10 wells of Kenny Rocker's double-stacked Minneapolis intermodal just behind the power.
It is the first time I have seen doublestacks on the Omaha Road.
jeffhergert SD60MAC9500 UP to add line capacity in key areas. Link here. It mentions lengthening sidings on the Golden State Route. I know they have been working on extending some of the sidings already. I forget what the new lengths are supposed to be. The Rock Island on their portion between Herington KS and Tucumcari NM, extended sidings in the late 1960s. (Topeka to Herington was double track, Kansas City to Topeka was over UP double track. SP/SSW took up the former RI double track, replaced with CTC and sidings.) The siding program of the 60s resulted in a 9000 ft siding about every 17 or so miles. Until about 10 or 12 years ago, 9000 ft was a big train. Even on double tracked lines. Not anymore. Jeff
SD60MAC9500 UP to add line capacity in key areas. Link here.
UP to add line capacity in key areas. Link here.
It mentions lengthening sidings on the Golden State Route. I know they have been working on extending some of the sidings already. I forget what the new lengths are supposed to be.
The Rock Island on their portion between Herington KS and Tucumcari NM, extended sidings in the late 1960s. (Topeka to Herington was double track, Kansas City to Topeka was over UP double track. SP/SSW took up the former RI double track, replaced with CTC and sidings.) The siding program of the 60s resulted in a 9000 ft siding about every 17 or so miles.
Until about 10 or 12 years ago, 9000 ft was a big train. Even on double tracked lines. Not anymore.
I think I read 18,000'-20,000' somewhere can't remember at the moment.
CMStPnP The age limits for recruiting for the military is so you can put in enough time to earn a decent pension before you retire vs being put out on the street at 55 or 60 with a tiny pension payment that you can't live on. Presume the railroads do it for the same reason. Also the physical demands of the job favor the younger age groups vs the older age groups. The Army toyed with higher enlistment ages during the post 2003 wars. I think the first time enlistment age rose from 35 max to 45 max. They ran into medical issues with those in their 40's with hairline bone fractures from a sudden increase in activity from a former sedentary life. Also hip and lower back medical issues as well from backpack weights, older muscle groups and joints not as accepting of abuse. I think the Military is back at max age of 35 or 30 now, forget which but they have abandoned over 40 for a first time enlistment as not realistic.
The age limits for recruiting for the military is so you can put in enough time to earn a decent pension before you retire vs being put out on the street at 55 or 60 with a tiny pension payment that you can't live on. Presume the railroads do it for the same reason. Also the physical demands of the job favor the younger age groups vs the older age groups. The Army toyed with higher enlistment ages during the post 2003 wars. I think the first time enlistment age rose from 35 max to 45 max. They ran into medical issues with those in their 40's with hairline bone fractures from a sudden increase in activity from a former sedentary life. Also hip and lower back medical issues as well from backpack weights, older muscle groups and joints not as accepting of abuse. I think the Military is back at max age of 35 or 30 now, forget which but they have abandoned over 40 for a first time enlistment as not realistic.
The railroads USED to have an age limit. I recently worked with a guy who's 68 and hired out about 5 or 6 years ago. I know there were others who've hired out post 60. None had previous railroad experience. Most are gone, victims of past slow downs and furloughs.
Railroad Retirement may have had something to do with it, the time needed to become vested has been shortened, but it may have been more of a physical thing. Before the late 1960s/early 1970s you couldn't hire out if you needed to wear eye glasses at any age. If your eye sight deteriorated that you needed them once you were working , that was OK.
Some union contracts called for mandatory retirement on the last day of your birth month when you turned 70.
It seems like people aren't aging the same. More people are more fit longer then in years past. The job still has it's physical demands, but some have changed. I think the biggest for us, and not all railroads allow it, is only being able to get on or off moving equipment at 4 mph or less. It used to be allowed, expected, at much higher speeds. That has a lot of impact on the body. Which is why it was not allowed for some time.
jeffhergertI can't argue about the working conditions, especially with the PSR mindset that all the worker bees need to work all the time. But when it comes to pay, there aren't many places that still pay as good as the class ones. Even some of the regionals and short lines pay good.
Maybe around where you live, but here, it isn't that hard, esp with conductors. And with the step rate BS, it's even worse. But even the pay isn't worth half the aggravation anymore.
jeffhergert I only threw in the coal train example to show that UP doesn't just pick up business the BNSF doesn't want. You're rationale sounds like a "sour grapes" attitude, "Well, we (BNSF) didn't want that business anyway." I'm not sure I buy that. Jeff
I only threw in the coal train example to show that UP doesn't just pick up business the BNSF doesn't want. You're rationale sounds like a "sour grapes" attitude, "Well, we (BNSF) didn't want that business anyway." I'm not sure I buy that.
I agree UP doesn't just pick up business BNSF doesn't want. Rationally I wouldn't say it's sour grapes. I'll put a few things into perspective.
SWIFT was never a priority for BNSF. That priority went to JBH, Schneider, and other who's contracts came with much higher volume commitments, better graduated rate increases, etc.. SWIFT IM's major lane is the I-5 Corridor from Southern California to Portland, OR. BNSF plays second fiddle to UP in this lane. Even though both have slow transit times compared to OTR due to terrain, etc.. The UP routing is faster, and enjoys less mileage between the two C1's. BNSF recognizes this. Nor has BNSF shown any interest in expanding current IM serivce in this lane.
SWIFT traffic in routes BNSF dominates-LA-CHI, CHI-SEA-PTL is much lower in volume compared to JBH, Schneider, etc. BNSF didn't put up a fight to retain the contract. They gave the terms as is. More of a take it or leave it situation. SWIFT went to UP for a few reasons; Traffic is growing in the Texas-West Coast market, as well UP's better I-5 corridor, and Texas routes to the West Coast. SWIFT wants to grow it's IM traffic and sees UP as a way to do this. However they will be competing for capacity with HUB Group UP's prime IM contract. UP has also stated it will not create any new train starts. It will increase train length even further.
When I said pruning it's IM network I looked at a few things. One was not renewing the HMM contract last year which UP now handles. Now they're letting the SWIFT contract expire. Freight has alot of dynamics. Reviewing whether a contract is worth keeping based on a multitude of factors can lead to decisions such as we no longer want to, or can serivce it.
tree68He was assigned to do some work, I believe for a demonstration of some sort, at GM's Tech Center in Warren. As he told the story, when his crew went to plug something into an outlet, they were informed that it was a union function, so they'd need the appropriate craft to do the task...
I have to say the Tech Center was pretty cool and that was the first I saw a 3D printer in operation back in 1993-94. Used to print parts for concept cars long before the technology was generally known to the public.
CSSHEGEWISCH The situation described inthe GM/UAW example would be similar to operating personnel being assigned to shopcraft positions instead of being laid off. That isn't likely to happen anytime soon since it would require negotiations among several unions.
The situation described inthe GM/UAW example would be similar to operating personnel being assigned to shopcraft positions instead of being laid off. That isn't likely to happen anytime soon since it would require negotiations among several unions.
My late father worked for GM at their Michigan Proving Grounds. Most GMPG jobs were non-union.
He was assigned to do some work, I believe for a demonstration of some sort, at GM's Tech Center in Warren. As he told the story, when his crew went to plug something into an outlet, they were informed that it was a union function, so they'd need the appropriate craft to do the task...
That was fifty years ago...
jeffhergertI can't argue about the working conditions, especially with the PSR mindset that all the worker bees need to work all the time. But when it comes to pay, there aren't many places that still pay as good as the class ones. Even some of the regionals and short lines pay good. What's keeping people away from coming back when recalled or not hiring out in the first place is the attitude of furloughing people at the drop of a hat. By the time they get someone "fully" trained, they furlough them because the extreme need has subsided. Instead of temporarily putting helpers on certain assignments that could really use an extra person, they cut them off. Expecting that they will come back when really needed again. I was always told years ago, expect to be furloughed the first 5 or 6 years. As time went past, the lengths of time cut off would become shorter. That was back when most new hires were within a few years out of high school and didn't have established a family to support. (35 was the age limit for hiring out with no railroad experience, 45 with railroad experience. Depending on craft being hired for.) Now they want to hire family people, with a few years of either college or work experience, because they tend to be more stable. That conflicts with someone who could weather a furlough by picking up small jobs here or there. If you find a decent job, do you leave it hoping you can hang on the railroad or stay with it and tell the railroad good bye? Jeff
The propensity to layoff or furlough people is an issue for the Union / Management contract agreement. GM did OK with their guarantees of full or almost full employment for assembly line UAW employees when car manufacturing got slow they would offer them jobs in facilities maintenence, auto convention setup and breakdown, office relocation services, etc. I am not sure that the defined railroad crafts would be flexible enough for that type of deal but it's really up to the Union to try it. UAW seemed happy with it. I thought Amtrak had something like that to protect Long Distance train employees but I have only heard of it in these forums.....have no clue what the Amtrak contracts provide.
zugmann Even if they get new business - who is going to move it? With many companies paying higher wages (and having 100% better working hours)- it's going to be tough to get new conductors. They have a hard enough time hiring trainees here, and even harder time keeping them from quitting right away. Railroad wages (and def'n working conditions) are not keeping up.
Even if they get new business - who is going to move it?
With many companies paying higher wages (and having 100% better working hours)- it's going to be tough to get new conductors.
They have a hard enough time hiring trainees here, and even harder time keeping them from quitting right away. Railroad wages (and def'n working conditions) are not keeping up.
I can't argue about the working conditions, especially with the PSR mindset that all the worker bees need to work all the time. But when it comes to pay, there aren't many places that still pay as good as the class ones. Even some of the regionals and short lines pay good.
What's keeping people away from coming back when recalled or not hiring out in the first place is the attitude of furloughing people at the drop of a hat. By the time they get someone "fully" trained, they furlough them because the extreme need has subsided. Instead of temporarily putting helpers on certain assignments that could really use an extra person, they cut them off. Expecting that they will come back when really needed again.
I was always told years ago, expect to be furloughed the first 5 or 6 years. As time went past, the lengths of time cut off would become shorter. That was back when most new hires were within a few years out of high school and didn't have established a family to support. (35 was the age limit for hiring out with no railroad experience, 45 with railroad experience. Depending on craft being hired for.) Now they want to hire family people, with a few years of either college or work experience, because they tend to be more stable. That conflicts with someone who could weather a furlough by picking up small jobs here or there. If you find a decent job, do you leave it hoping you can hang on the railroad or stay with it and tell the railroad good bye?
SD60MAC9500 jeffhergert SD60MAC9500 I agree about Swift. I think BNSF is pruning its IM network by dumping low paying contracts as they come up for expiration. They have the top dogs JBH and Schneider. Since BNSF has benefitted from UP's practices and attitude for many years, I don't think they are pruning their tree. There has been talk going around that we need to start regaining business. There have been some changes made the last year or so, but just when it seems that real change is beginning they come up with some new cost cutting measure. One step forward, two steps back. I'd like to think that maybe Omaha has finally realized that they need more business. They may have finally realized that they can't squeeze more pennies out of each dollar, so they need to bring in more dollars. If an e-mail sent to management is true, this may be the case. Around the first part of last year BNSF offered the UP 8 coal contracts. They were having trouble servicing those contracts due to capacity constraights. UP said they wouldn't take them at the price BNSF negotiated for them. Many, including local management, thought that was short sighted as our traffic was way down at the time. This was before Covid started affecting traffic levels. Jeff I was speaking specifically about their intermodal network. I should've said that instead of using an acronym.
jeffhergert SD60MAC9500 I agree about Swift. I think BNSF is pruning its IM network by dumping low paying contracts as they come up for expiration. They have the top dogs JBH and Schneider. Since BNSF has benefitted from UP's practices and attitude for many years, I don't think they are pruning their tree. There has been talk going around that we need to start regaining business. There have been some changes made the last year or so, but just when it seems that real change is beginning they come up with some new cost cutting measure. One step forward, two steps back. I'd like to think that maybe Omaha has finally realized that they need more business. They may have finally realized that they can't squeeze more pennies out of each dollar, so they need to bring in more dollars. If an e-mail sent to management is true, this may be the case. Around the first part of last year BNSF offered the UP 8 coal contracts. They were having trouble servicing those contracts due to capacity constraights. UP said they wouldn't take them at the price BNSF negotiated for them. Many, including local management, thought that was short sighted as our traffic was way down at the time. This was before Covid started affecting traffic levels. Jeff
SD60MAC9500 I agree about Swift. I think BNSF is pruning its IM network by dumping low paying contracts as they come up for expiration. They have the top dogs JBH and Schneider.
I agree about Swift. I think BNSF is pruning its IM network by dumping low paying contracts as they come up for expiration. They have the top dogs JBH and Schneider.
Since BNSF has benefitted from UP's practices and attitude for many years, I don't think they are pruning their tree. There has been talk going around that we need to start regaining business. There have been some changes made the last year or so, but just when it seems that real change is beginning they come up with some new cost cutting measure. One step forward, two steps back.
I'd like to think that maybe Omaha has finally realized that they need more business. They may have finally realized that they can't squeeze more pennies out of each dollar, so they need to bring in more dollars. If an e-mail sent to management is true, this may be the case.
Around the first part of last year BNSF offered the UP 8 coal contracts. They were having trouble servicing those contracts due to capacity constraights. UP said they wouldn't take them at the price BNSF negotiated for them. Many, including local management, thought that was short sighted as our traffic was way down at the time. This was before Covid started affecting traffic levels.
I was speaking specifically about their intermodal network. I should've said that instead of using an acronym.
CMStPnP SD60MAC9500 I agree about Swift. I think BNSF is pruning its IM network by dumping low paying contracts as they come up for expiration. They have the top dogs JBH and Schneider. I think that would be smart, if that what was going on but......why not accomodate both? Is there a finite limit of traffic BNSF can handle?
I think that would be smart, if that what was going on but......why not accomodate both? Is there a finite limit of traffic BNSF can handle?
Swift was never a big contract for BNSF. It might be about capacity. However if BNSF is looking to increase margins on the IM side of its business then letting it jettison was the right choice. This future available capacity could now be filled with more; Estes, ABF, YRC, JBH, Schneider, and/or Amazon business which brings more to the bottom line.
Around the first part of last year BNSF offered the UP 8 coal contracts. They were having trouble servicing those contracts due to capacity constraights. UP said they wouldn't take them at the price BNSF negotiated for them. Many, including local management, thought that was short sighted as our traffic was way down at the time.
Well, UP might have been right. BNSF could then turn around back to the client and state they offered the contract to a competitor and it was declined. Wouldn't that be a good opening renegotiating position?
I've done that before myself. I was told I was not working hard enough at selling something and offered to sell the item for $1 for anyone that wanted it within 45 days of the offer. Nobody took it because the product I was selling sucked. Lots of lookers though. I could then go back to the supplier of the product with the scenario and say.........look, nobody would buy it for $1. Which stopped the accusations I was not trying hard enough and realization there wasn't a market.
There are finite limits to the traffic any carrier can handle given the physical plant and employment level they staff the physical plant with.
Carriers do not make those limits public.
CMStPnP
You should save your snide responses for someone that cares. I certaintly don't! You appear to have a compulsion to levy a personal attack against me or anyone that you disagree with!!!!!!
A compulsion to attack someone that you have never met and don't know anything about is sick!!!!!
BaltACDI was trying to keep my explanation simple.
And you did. HOS is a real pain to track when you get into the weeds. Used to be that we showed up, ran trains, and were done. Now, if we help out by sweeping out the station between trips or at the end of the day, it's "co-mingled service" and has to be recorded. There's talk of having to record dead-head time from our assigned terminal, even if we drove to the work location (an hour away) from home - in the other direction.
BaltACD When I was working, we frequently used the 'respite' 4 hour provision for crews working between Connellsvill and New Castle, PA. They would operate a train from Connellsville (Home Terminal) to New Castle in 6 hours or less - take the 4 hour respite and go back on duty to operate at train from New Castle back to Connellsville.
Great real world example.
tree68It is possible to pause the clock - we do it on a regular basis. Occasionally we'll have a trip that has an early departure from Utica. The trip is two hours, plus prep time, and the crew may handle things like servicing the train and doing their runaround on arrival at Thendara. Once that's done, they mark off for at least four hours off the property before returning to duty for the trip back to Utica. If they stayed on duty, they wouldn't be able to finish the return trip.
Occasionally we'll have a trip that has an early departure from Utica. The trip is two hours, plus prep time, and the crew may handle things like servicing the train and doing their runaround on arrival at Thendara.
Once that's done, they mark off for at least four hours off the property before returning to duty for the trip back to Utica. If they stayed on duty, they wouldn't be able to finish the return trip.
I was trying to keep my explanation simple. When I was working, we frequently used the 'respite' 4 hour provision for crews working between Connellsvill and New Castle, PA. They would operate a train from Connellsville (Home Terminal) to New Castle in 6 hours or less - take the 4 hour respite and go back on duty to operate at train from New Castle back to Connellsville.
SD60MAC9500I agree about Swift. I think BNSF is pruning its IM network by dumping low paying contracts as they come up for expiration. They have the top dogs JBH and Schneider.
It is possible to pause the clock - we do it on a regular basis.
Shadow the Cats ownerThe ELB is the latest change in the HOS regulation mandatory for trucks older than 2000. However the biggest problem with the HOS regulation isn't the ELB itself it's the freaking clock. For all of us not driving an OTR truck and working this is what the clock is like. The second you feet left the door of your house bang it's started now you have a grand total of 14 hours to get everything done work commuting everything else for the day. The second you hit 14 hours outside your home your car sends a signal to your police department in our case your running illegal and subject to arrest. Nothing is able to stop this timer from counting down to zero. That in a nutshell is what these drivers are working under. The only thing that stops the clock is sleeping for 10 hours straight.
Same as the railroad HOS - just on the railroad the clock starts with the crews official 'on duty' time and the clock clicks down for 12 hours. If the crew doesn't make their destination within the 12 hour period - they are 'on the law' and cannot legally move the train from where it stopped at 12 hours. A Relief Crew must be called to board the train where it stopped 'on the law' and complete its movement to its destination. The original crew may get separate transportation form their train to their destination or they may wait for the Relief Crew to arrive and use the Relief Crew's transportation means to destination. The time difference between the crew's HOS time and their final relief time is termed 'Limbo Time'. There is a monthly limit of 30 hours on a crew member's cumulative Limbo Time. Upon marking off crew members are to get 10 hours UNDISTURBED rest, if the crew accrued Limbo Time, that amount of time is added to the undisturbed rest time. ie. if the crew marked off with a hour of Limbo Time they would get 11 hours undisturbed time. Crews cannot be called to report for duty during the undisturbed time. The normal call is two hours, ie. a crew can be called at 11 AM to report On Duty at 1 PM (certain local agreements may have different provisions). While crew members don't have individual ELB's the Dispatching System (CADS) performs the same function concerning policing the Hours of Service.
There are further aspects of the railroad Hours of Service laws that are too lengthy to try to explain. Of course, the railroads are not depending upon Interstate Rest Area's to provide the location for their crews to obtain the legal rest period as iis the OTR industry.
Jeff,
Thanks for your insights. Your writing skills are amongst the best on these forums. It's like you might have been an English teacher or English major before taking up railroading.
The ELB is the latest change in the HOS regulation mandatory for trucks older than 2000. However the biggest problem with the HOS regulation isn't the ELB itself it's the freaking clock. For all of us not driving an OTR truck and working this is what the clock is like. The second you feet left the door of your house bang it's started now you have a grand total of 14 hours to get everything done work commuting everything else for the day. The second you hit 14 hours outside your home your car sends a signal to your police department in our case your running illegal and subject to arrest. Nothing is able to stop this timer from counting down to zero. That in a nutshell is what these drivers are working under. The only thing that stops the clock is sleeping for 10 hours straight.
JPS1 Train length has increased 16 percent. OK! What is the frequency distribution of the increase in train lengths? What is the mean, median, and standard deviation of the array? I can only offer anecdotal evidence. There 16 percent includes locals and probably yard to yard transfers. Those bring the length down. I used to think a manifest 9000 ft and over was a big train. Now that's almost a "baby" train. It's normal now to see most manifests 12000 to 15000 ft. They double up coal trains in fits and starts. You see a lot of double upped trains, than you see a handful. Accidents have increased. OK! What is the accident rate per train mile? Or ton mile? I would say the incident rate has risen. That is, more undesired emergencies either from a dynamiter in the train or train make up leading to busted knuckles and pulled out drawbars. I read our recrew report. It's written by managers in dispatching, and most of the trains with the knuckles or drawbars are the supersized manifests, which usually block a route for any other train to get by them. A few lead to derailments, some major, most will never make the news. Locomotives have been idled. OK! What percentage of the fleet has been idled? I don't know off hand, but that information shouldn't be hard to find. I'm sure there are railfan sites that have that information. I do know that we're short on power. If a unit fails, and there seems to be an uptick in locomotive failures, or a unit is disqualifed from leading because of lack of cab signals or PTC it's hard to find a new one to replace it. One this morning had to turn their power (on a wye) but the new leader was found to have a crank case overpressure failure. It used to be fairly rare to hear that fault, but there's at least one in every recrew report now. I don't know if they've reopened their major diesel shop in North Little Rock. I've heard it may be partially reopened. I've also heard mechanics at intermediate facilities have been robbing parts off engines in storage to keep others running. Employee morale is down. OK! How is it measured? And what are the statistical outputs? Well, just about every field employee feels at least some animosity of what's going on. From the attendence policy designed to fire people, thereby reducing head count, to short staffing extra and pool boards. I recently, and not for the first time, had to wait for a conductor to be available. They keep the guaranteed boards short, often to the point that half the board is unavailable because of the Federal Requirement to be marked off for 48/72 hours because of working 6/7 starts without a 24 hour or more break between duty shifts. One engineer I deadheaded with said he didn't care if the place (the yard office) burned down while he was gone. That sentiment is more common than one would think. UP didn't make the number one (or number three depending on report cited) worst company to work for. I myself often will refer to the fact that you can't spell stupid without two key letters. (That saying was popular a few years back before morale got worse.) About two years into my career I had an opprotunity to go to the Iowa Interstate Railroad. I had been trying for years to get on with them. I hadn't renewed an application for quite awhile, but they still had the old ones and called me. We were in the process of buying a house, too far from the IAIS terminal, and I didn't want to back out and things were going pretty good where I was. That was a mistake I still kick myself for. I should've went then. I'd be in the top tier of seniority and could hold almost any job or terminal on the IAIS. The news media, along with a lot of other folks, jump on raw statistics without putting them in context. For someone who understands math and statistics, they are meaningless. Arthur Benjamin, who is a Professor of Mathematics at Harvey Mudd College, believes that every educated American should have two units of Algebra and two units of statistics. Algebra is a foundational math. And statistics is important because they show up in the media nearly every day. And more often than not they are misstated. It is important for people to see the flaws in the reporting of statistics. Or the absence thereof. I'm sure the news story is a bit slanted. They are talking to a union official after all, but the railroad's response is also slanted. That's normal, any group's representative is going to play up their version, down play any opponent's version. But much of what was said fairly reflects the average field employee's view. Jeff
Shadow the Cats owner SD60MAC9500 Shadow the Cats owner Well Swift going over to UP isn't the biggest shock in my eye's and here's why. Swift is run by the same group that controls Knight and a couple other companies. The Moyer family is known for 3 things in the OTR industry. First off is screwing up training so badly that the internet is full of memes of Swift screw ups that are legendary. 2nd is having some of the slowest trucks on the road. Swift literally in the 90s had to be threatened with a FMCSA shutdown to increase their speed from 56 mph. Yes they had them governed that slow. Lastly is being one of the lowest paying carriers in the freaking world. A driver there starts out at less than 30 cents a mile. I agree about Swift. I think BNSF is pruning its IM network by dumping low paying contracts as they come up for expiration. They have the top dogs JBH and Schneider. I have to laugh a couple weeks back I had a newly hired driver come into my office. He had done his training through Swift survived his year there and then jumped ship to us. His father is a driver here also but at the time we didn't have any openings. I have had some retirements in the last few weeks. The son comes up to me and said being here is like going to a five star hotel and restaurant all the time. He also said that Swift needs to have it's authority yanked over some of the things that they're doing over there. He's filing a whistle blower complaint with the FMCSA over their lack of training his trainer had been a OTR driver for 2 months total time from when he got his CDL and how Swift changes their drivers electronic logbooks after the drivers have turned them in so they can run them more.
SD60MAC9500 Shadow the Cats owner Well Swift going over to UP isn't the biggest shock in my eye's and here's why. Swift is run by the same group that controls Knight and a couple other companies. The Moyer family is known for 3 things in the OTR industry. First off is screwing up training so badly that the internet is full of memes of Swift screw ups that are legendary. 2nd is having some of the slowest trucks on the road. Swift literally in the 90s had to be threatened with a FMCSA shutdown to increase their speed from 56 mph. Yes they had them governed that slow. Lastly is being one of the lowest paying carriers in the freaking world. A driver there starts out at less than 30 cents a mile. I agree about Swift. I think BNSF is pruning its IM network by dumping low paying contracts as they come up for expiration. They have the top dogs JBH and Schneider.
Shadow the Cats owner Well Swift going over to UP isn't the biggest shock in my eye's and here's why. Swift is run by the same group that controls Knight and a couple other companies. The Moyer family is known for 3 things in the OTR industry. First off is screwing up training so badly that the internet is full of memes of Swift screw ups that are legendary. 2nd is having some of the slowest trucks on the road. Swift literally in the 90s had to be threatened with a FMCSA shutdown to increase their speed from 56 mph. Yes they had them governed that slow. Lastly is being one of the lowest paying carriers in the freaking world. A driver there starts out at less than 30 cents a mile.
Well Swift going over to UP isn't the biggest shock in my eye's and here's why. Swift is run by the same group that controls Knight and a couple other companies. The Moyer family is known for 3 things in the OTR industry. First off is screwing up training so badly that the internet is full of memes of Swift screw ups that are legendary. 2nd is having some of the slowest trucks on the road. Swift literally in the 90s had to be threatened with a FMCSA shutdown to increase their speed from 56 mph. Yes they had them governed that slow. Lastly is being one of the lowest paying carriers in the freaking world. A driver there starts out at less than 30 cents a mile.
I have to laugh a couple weeks back I had a newly hired driver come into my office. He had done his training through Swift survived his year there and then jumped ship to us. His father is a driver here also but at the time we didn't have any openings. I have had some retirements in the last few weeks. The son comes up to me and said being here is like going to a five star hotel and restaurant all the time. He also said that Swift needs to have it's authority yanked over some of the things that they're doing over there. He's filing a whistle blower complaint with the FMCSA over their lack of training his trainer had been a OTR driver for 2 months total time from when he got his CDL and how Swift changes their drivers electronic logbooks after the drivers have turned them in so they can run them more.
For the most part when I am making long distance trips it is my preference to start the trip in the 11 PM - Midnight range and drive through the night with a much reduced volume of traffic on the highways.
The one thing I notice when nature makes its call and I have to utilize a Interstate Rest Area - the Rest Area are FULL to overflowing with trucks - trucks that I presume are taking the time for the Electronic Log Book required rest periods. In view of the ELB rest requirements has the trucking industry interceded with the states and the federal governmnet to have the size and number of Rest Area's expanded as with the adoption of the ELB it seems that Rest Areas have become the designated 'motel' for truckers?
Once the sun come up, the Rest Areas return to being areas for the non-commercial traveling public, with few OTR rigs being sighted.
SD60MAC9500 Looks like UP is making the news in more ways than one...
Looks like UP is making the news in more ways than one...
Just surprised that UP is storing the engines where they can be seen by the public that then generates the questions of why they are there.
JPS1 If anyone believes certifications are unimportant, I dare you to jump into an airplane with a pilot that has not completed the requirements for at least a private pilot's license.
JPS1Admittedly, I played in the big leagues
On second thought........throwing in the towel on this discussion. Not my issue to fix, I am already past the finish line with 10 more years to work (optionally). :)
...
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CMStPnP If you have a rollover IRA that you control free and clear, individual stocks are the way to go. Easy to diversify enough with just 2-3 stock holdings, especially if they are reputible multi-national corporations like 3M, Proctor and Gamble, etc. Also, always have the dividend reinvestment option turned on.....at least that is what I do.
If you have a rollover IRA that you control free and clear, individual stocks are the way to go. Easy to diversify enough with just 2-3 stock holdings, especially if they are reputible multi-national corporations like 3M, Proctor and Gamble, etc. Also, always have the dividend reinvestment option turned on.....at least that is what I do.
My wife and I have all of our investments in Fidelity. Until three years ago, I managed them but now they do. We are considered "Wealth Management" clients. Mutual Funds have worked just fine for us. We can comfortably spend yearly more than we ever have, even more than while working.
CMStPnP It's all about diversification and spreading your risk. The MCI and Enron collapses hit home close. ... Easy to diversify enough with just 2-3 stock holdings, especially if they are reputible multi-national corporations
Hopefully one of those 3 stocks wasn't GM a dozen years ago. Most advice I have read suggests 10 or 20 deversified stocks (spread out in a number of industries). All companies should be researched, and reviewed periodically if change is needed. For those who don't want to closely follow the marked as an advocation, low fee index funds are recommended. (Google search: S&P 500)
SD60MAC9500SD60MAC9500 wrote the following post 10 hours ago: https://evanstonroundtable.com/2021/06/17/metra-announces-updated-pilot-schedule-for-union-pacific-north-line/
I wonder how much of the METRA commute is reverse commute, is it up to 50% now?
JPS1If you need help planning an investment strategy, seek out a Certified Financial Planner. They have passed a rigorous exam to become a CFP. Most importantly, they work on a fee basis. They don't sell anything.
JPS is caught up in certifications and like software certifications, professional certifications can mean nothing and you can end up with an absolute idiot. So be careful here. JPS is also wrong on CFP's not selling you anything as some work on commission. My Mother had a CFP with Wells Fargo that rode her portfolio down to 1/3 value in 2008 and recommended in 2008 she sell everything and invest in zero coupon CD's, she was on commission and liked to churn the account. Going with a CFP Fudiciary like those with Fisher Investments over someone on Commission does make sense though.....which I think is what JPS1 was aiming for here. Same goes with CPA's there are some idiot CPA's out there. Don't stop your research at the certification.
JPS1I’d bet you could master the basics with a bit of effort. Spend a little time on investing and take charge of your investment strategy.
Good plan. Motley Fool is a good service for $200 a year. Seems expensive but will pay for itself. Basically with a good CFP Fiduciary your making all the decisions yourself anyway and the CFP is just a coach to keep you out of trouble. Self education is good because you have to take responsibility here and be comfortable with where you put your money in order to be comfortable with the CFP. Though I will also say I do not have a CFP now and he is a hell of alot more saavy and smarter than any CFP I have interviewed myself. And I went through a lot of them. So for example if you make a large stock gain, your financial advisor should step up and tell you how to lock in the gain and diversify it so that you keep the majority of the gain with the future reinvestment and not blow it all on future high risk investments. Basically a coaching role. That is an example of how the relationship should work. If he/she says "buy gold".....run like hell as that should be your initiative or call with his or her input only after you laid out the decision.
Also set minimum performance objectives and let whomever the advisor is know that you will not accept returns below 7% averge annual. Even with down turns it should average out to 7% at a min over the years with the good years thrown in, though I will say I have been double digits growth every year but 2007-2008 slide. So 7% is a min that 80-90% should be able to meet.
https://evanstonroundtable.com/2021/06/17/metra-announces-updated-pilot-schedule-for-union-pacific-north-line/
JPS1When laying out an investment plan for retirement or any other objective, don't take the advice of anyone participating in these forums or any similar forums.
Safe advice.
The important thing is to save something. Many lose track of that basic tenet.
Reminds me of a cartoon. Older gentleman is obviously at a bank, applying for a loan. The caption reads something along the lines of "the car and boat are to attract a younger woman who can take care of me in my old age..."
jeffhergert I haven't decided yet for myself. If I do partake, it will be long term and a sense of ownership. Jeff
When laying out an investment plan for retirement or any other objective, don't take the advice of anyone participating in these forums or any similar forums.
If you need help planning an investment strategy, seek out a Certified Financial Planner. They have passed a rigorous exam to become a CFP. Most importantly, they work on a fee basis. They don't sell anything.
I have read your posts for years. You are a bright guy. Investing is not rocket science. I’d bet you could master the basics with a bit of effort. Spend a little time on investing and take charge of your investment strategy.
I have a cousin whose retirement was heavily invested in stocks. Shortly after he retired was when the stock market took a dive - that really set him back.
A minor part of my retirement savings is in the government's "Thrift Savings Plan." I stayed in the "G" category, which is basically government securities. Some folks have chosen to get into the riskier funds. I no longer contribute as I am now retired, but I still see modest gains from year to year.
It's about time for me to start taking money out of it, while I can enjoy it. It won't be much, but it'll be something.
kgbw49 9500, any idea how much business that is? No worries if you don't have that info - neither do I. Just thought I'd ask on the chance perhaps you might have some info.
9500, any idea how much business that is? No worries if you don't have that info - neither do I. Just thought I'd ask on the chance perhaps you might have some info.
No I don't have anything concrete. Swift only has a fleet of roughly 8,000 53' containers. So I imagine their intermodal division numbers pale in comparison to JBH or Schneider. Here's a link to their earnings report Q1 2021.
jeffhergert Maybe they're buying back stock to sell to the employees. Most of my coworkers are leery about taking them up on the offer. Especially those that do investing beyond their 401K. Partly because they think the current price is too high for the reality of things, partly because there is a restriction to hold it for a year before being able to sell. I do like the company match. They don't match agreement train and engine service employees' 401K contributions. I haven't decided yet for myself. If I do partake, it will be long term and a sense of ownership. I used to have stock via my 401K, but when I took the option of having Vanguard manage my account they promptly started selling off my shares. (It was a few years ago, right before the stock split and price started to go up again.) I don't have stock directly, but some of the funds I have might have UP stock. Jeff
Maybe they're buying back stock to sell to the employees.
Most of my coworkers are leery about taking them up on the offer. Especially those that do investing beyond their 401K. Partly because they think the current price is too high for the reality of things, partly because there is a restriction to hold it for a year before being able to sell.
I do like the company match. They don't match agreement train and engine service employees' 401K contributions.
I haven't decided yet for myself. If I do partake, it will be long term and a sense of ownership. I used to have stock via my 401K, but when I took the option of having Vanguard manage my account they promptly started selling off my shares. (It was a few years ago, right before the stock split and price started to go up again.) I don't have stock directly, but some of the funds I have might have UP stock.
Ask a decent financial analyst about investing in the company you work for. My advice is you should never do that beyond a very token amount. Vanguard did the right thing by selling off the shares. Having an indirect ownership via mutual funds is fine.
I have seen loads of people financially ruined that invested in the employee purchase programs of ENRON, MCI, EDS, etc. Even worse when they were laid off and it came time to sell the shares for funds (because they did not have an emergency fund) the stock was basically worthless or so depressed in value to not be worth selling. A lot of Cousins worked for AT&T and bought into their program heavily. Most have second jobs now in retirement because AT&T has done so crapily over time. It's all about diversification and spreading your risk.
The MCI and Enron collapses hit home close. Neighbors right on my street with familes lost their dream homes and had to move in with Parents again all heavily invested in Employee plan. Very sad.
I don't see that happening to UP but still it is a good investing rule of thumb to follow not to invest more than a token amount. Right now UP is attempting to reward long-term investors via the stock buy back and increasing the dividend payout. UP has a fairly high dividend per share payout. I believe it's $4.50 a share per year or higher.
BTW, if you have over $100k in a 401k it is a better strategy and you retain more in capital growth if you invest in a diversified portfolio of individual stocks vs a Mutual Fund or ETF. Mutual Funds and ETF's carry high fees sometimes whereas individual stocks not so much. Depends on if your plan allows this as well most do not allow individual stock investments because of idiot day traders and the fear that employees might squander all their savings via day trading.
So.. Just received word that Swift Intermodal has left BNSF and signed an exclusive contract with Union Pacific for domestic moves on it's western lanes. I'll update with more details later.
UPDATE:
The Swift Intermodal contract with BNSF terminates on Jan 1st 2022. UP will assume exclusive handling of Swift Intermodal business west of the Mississippi. Swift Intermodal will in additon be purchasing more 53' containers starting next year.
The Port of Long Beach has signed up with the Utah Inland Port as well. Good news here we can decongest the LA area a bit. Moving transloading and sorting further inland. Article here.
I really like these inland ports. One you can build a point to point train without switching/sorting near the ports. Get all the boxes on a train at the dock. Hustle them to Utah for sort/transload. Build trains for destinations get em' on the road without any intermediate work events. Think of these trains as long distance shuttles. However we still need a fix for the 60 mile drays from the ports to the Inland Empire.. Maybe we can use these new long distance shuttles to block swap traffic at the Inland Empire for transloading... Just a thought...
kgbw49Boy, oh boy, BaltACD, you sure called that one! Any other stock tips in your crystal ball?
Any other stock tips in your crystal ball?
Don't have enough familiarity any other corporations tendancies over time.
However, I suspect each corporation has their own pricepoint where they think they can access the investors they desire to attract. Not all corporations are seeking the same kinds of investors.
Boy, oh boy, BaltACD, you sure called that one!
kgbw49CSX closed yesterday 06/01/21 at $100.30.
And I see today (6/4/21) where CSX is announcing a split - 3 for 1.
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3703299-csx-to-execute-3-for-1-stock-split-in-the-form-of-stock-dividend?mail_subject=csx-csx-to-execute-3-for-1-stock-split-in-the-form-of-stock-dividend&utm_campaign=rta-stock-news&utm_content=link-2&utm_medium=email&utm_source=seeking_alpha
Corrected. Thanks Mike.
Their map shows it more west of Salt Lake City, just west of the airport. They are also talking about satellite facilities around the state. While the are inking a deal with Oakland, they are also supremely located at the convergence of lines to there, LA and Seattle/Portland.
https://inlandportauthority.utah.gov/maps/
Well it seems the proposed Utah Inland Port is moving forward. This will be located West of Salt Lake City. Article here. More information on the Utah Inland Port.
CSX closed yesterday 06/01/21 at $100.30.
jeffhergertMaybe they're buying back stock to sell to the employees. Most of my coworkers are leery about taking them up on the offer. Especially those that do investing beyond their 401K. Partly because they think the current price is too high for the reality of things, partly because there is a restriction to hold it for a year before being able to sell. I do like the company match. They don't match agreement train and engine service employees' 401K contributions. I haven't decided yet for myself. If I do partake, it will be long term and a sense of ownership. I used to have stock via my 401K, but when I took the option of having Vanguard manage my account they promptly started selling off my shares. (It was a few years ago, right before the stock split and price started to go up again.) I don't have stock directly, but some of the funds I have might have UP stock. Jeff
Back in the 70's Chessie System had a employee stock purchase plan that was done through payroll deductions. I ended up buying 200 shares. I also participated in the Dividend Reinvestment Program - subquently Chessie split the shares 3 for 1. As a result in 1990 I was alble to sell about 900 shares and use the proceeds for a $33K downpayment on my house.
Later on CSX also had some employee stock purchase plans which I participated in ouside of the 401K program. These shares also are in the dividend reinvestment program - it has been a while since I checked, but I have nearly 1K shares at present.
Historically CSX has wanted to maintain their share price in the $30 range, and in the past when the share prices have risen beyond $70 a share they have split. CSX is currently trading over $100 a share.
UP to implement employee stock program. Article here.
Jeff waiting to hear your input on this
https://www.up.com/cs/groups/public/@uprr/@investor/documents/investordocuments/pdf_unp_4q20_er_slides.pdf
Here is the UP 2020 Earnings Presentation.
See slides 3, 10 and 11 for some significant financial information.
Slide 3 - Capital investment has been declining steadily but seems to have settled at just under $3 billion. Inflation will always eat at a steady dollar amount. If inflation is 2%, after 5 years your are getting about 89.6% of the work accomplished compared to 5 years earlier.
Slide 10 - UP made $5.6 billion for 2020, but paid out $6.3 billion in dividends and share repurchases. That means they used debt for at least a portion of their share repurchases and At least a portion of their capital plan. Debt for capital investment is nit a bad thing if you can match the debt to the life of the asset being deployed. However, UP has not been retiring debt - they have been steadily incasing debt.
Slide 11 - UP debt was $8.607 billion in 2008, support by annual revenues of $17.118 billion. 12 years later, UP debt is $28.970 billion - an increase of 237% compared to 2008 - supported by revenues of $19.533 billion - an increase of 14% over 2008.
Two things support that position, it would seem.
1. UP has cut out expense cost to free up cash generated from revenue to support debt service.
2. Interest rates have been exceptionally low during that time period, so servicing the debt has been relatively inexpensive and "affordable" within their cash flow
That borrowing strategy will work until it doesn't. If they have to roll their debt maturities over at higher interest rates in the future, something in their financial strategy will have to be adjusted from the current strategy to free up cash to pay more in interest expense.
SD60MAC9500 UP accelerates share repurchase program. Article here.
UP accelerates share repurchase program. Article here.
China has just forced a reduction in iron ore prices...
The big problem is that Brazil hasn't recovered from the major failure of a dam adjacent to one of their iron ore mines and the country is suffering more than most from COVID-19.
But the quantities shipped are indeed in metrictonnes.
This is the report for April 2021
Pilbara Ports Authority has delivered a total monthly throughput of 60.6 million tonnes (Mt) for April 2021.
This throughput was a two per cent decrease compared to the same month in 2020.
The Port of Port Hedland achieved a monthly throughput of 45.8Mt of which 45.1Mt was iron ore exports. This was the same monthly throughput reported in March 2020.
Imports through the Port of Port Hedland totalled 186,000 tonnes, an increase of 29 per cent from the same month in 2020.
The Port of Dampier delivered a total monthly throughput of 13.8Mt, a decrease of nine per cent from March 2020.
Imports through the Port of Dampier totalled 39,000 tonnes, a decrease of 73 per cent from April 2020.
60 million tonnes per month is over 500 times the monthly shipments from Long Beach (but that is from two ports, Port Hedland and Dampier)
I couldn't find individual ship loads after a quick search.
But China is counting on Brazil returning to the market and forcing the price down from around $180 per tonne to around $50 per tonne. In the meantime may mines that couldn't operate at $50 per tonne are shipping ore. There is no point in adding capacity that would only pay at current iron ore prices because they won't last.
Peter
blue streak 1Since this number 120,000 tons is in Australia is that really 120,000 tonnes ( metric ) ? Also isn't all ocean shipping listed in tonnes ?
H-h-h-m-m-m, wonder how long this will last? Afghanistan has heavy Iron Ore deposits and is one of the key reasons they are building a railway system in that country. I wonder if China has moved in yet to snap up those contracts?
Since this number 120,000 tons is in Australia is that really 120,000 tonnes ( metric ) ? Also isn't all ocean shipping listed in tonnes ?
SD60MAC9500 BaltACD SD60MAC9500 Back in December of 2020 UP started shipping iron ore for export to the Port of Long Beach again. The ore is being shipped in trains of about 150-160 cars for export to China. Loads orginate in Southern Utah not sure what mine though. I'm curirous as too how they are shipping iron ore in aluminum hoppers. I wonder if they had their interiors coated to prevent cross corrosion of the aluminum. Any insight into this would be appreciated. Not sure that I have ever seen a more inefficient manner being used to load a bulk commodity into ocean going vessels. The volume is not there for them to invest in ship loaders. Plus this contract is not long term.
BaltACD SD60MAC9500 Back in December of 2020 UP started shipping iron ore for export to the Port of Long Beach again. The ore is being shipped in trains of about 150-160 cars for export to China. Loads orginate in Southern Utah not sure what mine though. I'm curirous as too how they are shipping iron ore in aluminum hoppers. I wonder if they had their interiors coated to prevent cross corrosion of the aluminum. Any insight into this would be appreciated. Not sure that I have ever seen a more inefficient manner being used to load a bulk commodity into ocean going vessels.
SD60MAC9500 Back in December of 2020 UP started shipping iron ore for export to the Port of Long Beach again. The ore is being shipped in trains of about 150-160 cars for export to China. Loads orginate in Southern Utah not sure what mine though. I'm curirous as too how they are shipping iron ore in aluminum hoppers. I wonder if they had their interiors coated to prevent cross corrosion of the aluminum. Any insight into this would be appreciated.
Not sure that I have ever seen a more inefficient manner being used to load a bulk commodity into ocean going vessels.
The volume is not there for them to invest in ship loaders. Plus this contract is not long term.
That is pretty clear...
120 000 tons a MONTH.
Ships leave Port Hedland in Western Australia with 120 000 tons aboard, I think.
They have been leaving with 60 000 tons since the port was first open.
The ships must be carrying something else as well as iron ore....
https://www.grantcountybeat.com/news/news-articles/65108-train-derails-near-lordsburg
Sometimes it pays to have your own RoW..
The report that a bridge collapse caused the derailment is in error. Another site Iowa train derailment: Sibley evacuation order remains in place (desmoinesregister.com) said the report of a bridge collapse, also issued by a congressmen for the area, was in error. The congressmen's office says the bridge was destroyed by the derailment.
The only bridge that seems to be involved appears to be standing to me. It doesn't appear that there was a water course where the worst of the derailment is located. There appears to be at least one car derailed still on the bridge.
A day before there was a derailment at Albert Lea MN that also involved hazardous materials. Officials: Albert Lea train derailment spilled 40,000 gallons of hydrochloric acid | KAALTV.com
I brought home an empty grain train Sunday destined for a Minnesota elevator. Instead of going north via Mason City as planned, it was rerouted, taking the "scenic" route via Chicago.
UP derailment due to bridge collaspe. Is UP negleting its bridge PM ? Several UP bridge fires seem to indicate that fire danger not being cleared around wooden bridges ? Now we have this bridge collaspe It will be interesting to determine the reason for the bridge collaspe. Did train cause collaspe by derailing on bridge or did it collaspe under the weight of locos and / or train ?
Bridge collapse causes train derailment near Sibley, Iowa | KMEG (siouxlandnews.com)
Convicted One Perhaps they were concerned that if they didn't find a revenue back-haul, someone was likely to suggest they start hauling hides?
Perhaps they were concerned that if they didn't find a revenue back-haul, someone was likely to suggest they start hauling hides?
Now that you mention it... Oh, never mind.
SD60MAC9500 Ship loader is a rather nebulous term. This is, y' know, the people's Republik of Kalifornia. Where a truck or piece of construction equipment built prior to 2009 does not exist and cannot be used. The answer, though is not to buy a fleet of Terex 60 ton haul trucks at huge expense when ordinary highway equipment will do the job and be marketable if the operation goes belly up. Even at twice as namy trips this would be cheaper. Those haul trucks are useless in applications such as copper minng where the hot number is the Lieberr 305 ton capacity model. Just think, it can haul 5 of those Tonka toys to the dump. Very little market for them if this doesn't work. A conveyor would be great but the cranes are already there and needed to put equipment in the holds to move material to trim the ship and level it . So the dump box is likely the best option there. It is not the pinnacle of efficiency but it works. I would not have wasted the money on those haul trucks when twice as many Macks at half the cost would do at least as good a job. BaltACD SD60MAC9500 Back in December of 2020 UP started shipping iron ore for export to the Port of Long Beach again. The ore is being shipped in trains of about 150-160 cars for export to China. Loads orginate in Southern Utah not sure what mine though. I'm curirous as too how they are shipping iron ore in aluminum hoppers. I wonder if they had their interiors coated to prevent cross corrosion of the aluminum. Any insight into this would be appreciated. Not sure that I have ever seen a more inefficient manner being used to load a bulk commodity into ocean going vessels. The volume is not there for them to invest in ship loaders. Plus this contract is not long term.
Ship loader is a rather nebulous term. This is, y' know, the people's Republik of Kalifornia. Where a truck or piece of construction equipment built prior to 2009 does not exist and cannot be used. The answer, though is not to buy a fleet of Terex 60 ton haul trucks at huge expense when ordinary highway equipment will do the job and be marketable if the operation goes belly up. Even at twice as namy trips this would be cheaper. Those haul trucks are useless in applications such as copper minng where the hot number is the Lieberr 305 ton capacity model. Just think, it can haul 5 of those Tonka toys to the dump. Very little market for them if this doesn't work. A conveyor would be great but the cranes are already there and needed to put equipment in the holds to move material to trim the ship and level it . So the dump box is likely the best option there. It is not the pinnacle of efficiency but it works. I would not have wasted the money on those haul trucks when twice as many Macks at half the cost would do at least as good a job.
MidlandMike SD60MAC9500 Back in December of 2020 UP started shipping iron ore for export to the Port of Long Beach again. The ore is being shipped in trains of about 150-160 cars for export to China. Loads orginate in Southern Utah not sure what mine though... It's coming from Iron Mountain, near Cedar, Utah. It's been an on again, off again project, so I can see why they have not built ore dedicated loading facilities yet. https://utahrails.net/utahrails/iron-mountain-railroads.php
SD60MAC9500 Back in December of 2020 UP started shipping iron ore for export to the Port of Long Beach again. The ore is being shipped in trains of about 150-160 cars for export to China. Loads orginate in Southern Utah not sure what mine though...
It's coming from Iron Mountain, near Cedar, Utah. It's been an on again, off again project, so I can see why they have not built ore dedicated loading facilities yet.
https://utahrails.net/utahrails/iron-mountain-railroads.php
Thanks Mike. I should've known the ore is coming from the Iron Mountain District. Alot of high grade magnetite in the area.
BaltACD SD60MAC9500 UP is currently in the process of completing a transload facility inside it's Global 4 (G4) Logistics Park in Joleit, IL. Completion is scheduled for Q4 21. The facility will create a backhaul of Midwestern Grains loaded into ISO containers for export to the West Coast. This is a great idea as trains can be filled out at point of origin instead of creating a work event down the road. Maybe UP is finally waking up, but time will tell.. News article here Photo Credit UP Don't know that I follow their logic. Are storage silo's going to be constructed to facilitate the transloading? Is the farmer going to deal with the transloading facility or will they continue to deal with their 'local elevator' and then the elevator deals with the transload facility. Or is the idea to bring in a Unit Train from a local elevator and then transload the contents of the Unit Train into ocean boxes. Article mentions 50K boxes a year or 136 per day. Is that 20 foot or 40 foot international boxes?
SD60MAC9500 UP is currently in the process of completing a transload facility inside it's Global 4 (G4) Logistics Park in Joleit, IL. Completion is scheduled for Q4 21. The facility will create a backhaul of Midwestern Grains loaded into ISO containers for export to the West Coast. This is a great idea as trains can be filled out at point of origin instead of creating a work event down the road. Maybe UP is finally waking up, but time will tell.. News article here Photo Credit UP
News article here
Photo Credit UP
Don't know that I follow their logic. Are storage silo's going to be constructed to facilitate the transloading? Is the farmer going to deal with the transloading facility or will they continue to deal with their 'local elevator' and then the elevator deals with the transload facility. Or is the idea to bring in a Unit Train from a local elevator and then transload the contents of the Unit Train into ocean boxes.
Article mentions 50K boxes a year or 136 per day. Is that 20 foot or 40 foot international boxes?
No the farmer isn't going to deal with anyone but an elevator which functions as a bonded warehouse. The farmer might ship substandard product and there is no remedy since it only discovered in China or other destination. The bonded warehouse , as the term implies is bonded to insure that it actually has the goods of the named quality. Thus the consignee may have some recourse if the there is a dispute. In addition , just how many checks do you think they want to write for one cargo? Figuratively speaking of course since the cargo is paid for with a letter of credit. The buyer has the right to have an inspector but should he have to inspect 1250 containers or view one or two piles of grain at the elevator and spot check a bit. We're not talking the Saturday farmers market here, this is international commerce. You need a wake up call.
Several grain elevators in Northern Il have been shipping soybeans to Japan in 20 ft containers for years. Was a big uptick when Global 3 was up and running. They had been taking them to Chicago before it opened and took them to Chicago after it "closed"
SD60MAC9500Back in December of 2020 UP started shipping iron ore for export to the Port of Long Beach again. The ore is being shipped in trains of about 150-160 cars for export to China. Loads orginate in Southern Utah not sure what mine though...
Have been watching some farming videos - they are using augers to transload seed and fertilizer from storage bins to trucks and from trucks to the seeding equipment.
While I am certain that particular equipment is inadequate to handle something with the weight of iron ore - certainly - the best and brightest can devise and build a more efficient and high volume pieces of equipment than what this video showed for ship loading. The equipment being used to tranload from the rail cars to the storage piles are much more efficient.
How much tonnage is being loaded on the ships? How long are the ships in port to facilitate loading? Ships cost their owners money - waiting or sailing.
Back in the day of the Export Coal Boom of the early 1980's. CSX had more tonnage to load than the Curtis Bay Coal pier was able to handle with it's ship loader - routinely dumping between 50K & 60K tons a 24 hour day. During that period of time the Scow Loader only had sufficient business for one 8 hour shift per week. CSX contracted with a local outfit to provide scows and tow boats to load the scows at Curtis Bay and float them across the harbor to the former Western Maryland Import Ore Pier - where the Ore Pier equipment would dig coal out of the scows and transload it to a waiting coal hauler. This operation permitted the loading of two additional vessels per week above the number of vessels that Curtis Bay was handling on the ship loader.
BaltACDNot sure that I have ever seen a more inefficient manner being used to load a bulk commodity into ocean going vessels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhwvXIOkoBY
There must be some reason why that method of using dump trucks and large shallow dump is in use.
I don't think there's a major galvanic-corrosion issue between aluminum and iron ore. You may be thinking of thermite, which is chemical rather than electrochemical, and requires a considerable endotherm to get started unless there is a large surface area between aluminum and iron oxide...
SD60MAC9500 Maybe UP is finally waking up, but time will tell..
jeffhergert Grain has already been moving in containers. I always thought it was some kind of specialty grain product, the train lists only have so much room for names of the loads. It doesn't seem the most efficient way to move a bulk commodity. OTOH, smaller grain facilities that can't load unit trains or even has rail service might be able to use containers. Jeff
Grain has already been moving in containers. I always thought it was some kind of specialty grain product, the train lists only have so much room for names of the loads. It doesn't seem the most efficient way to move a bulk commodity.
OTOH, smaller grain facilities that can't load unit trains or even has rail service might be able to use containers.
Yes those are specialty grain products a fast growing market segment. Which is the target and smaller volume shippers as you noted, though also receivers of low volume. The nice thing about the G4 transload it kills two birds with one stone. The farmer can haul more net grain with his lighter tare hopper bottom. Companies like Maersk, MSC, APL, etc. get faster turn-around, and gets a backhaul. A win-win for everyone involved.
SD60MAC9500Back in December of 2020 UP started shipping iron ore for export to the Port of Long Beach again. The ore is being shipped in trains of about 150-160 cars for export to China. Loads orginate in Southern Utah not sure what mine though. I'm curirous as too how they are shipping iron ore in aluminum hoppers. I wonder if they had their interiors coated to prevent cross corrosion of the aluminum. Any insight into this would be appreciated.
FWIW, our aluminum sulphur cars aren't lined either (the steel ones were).
Back in December of 2020 UP started shipping iron ore for export to the Port of Long Beach again. The ore is being shipped in trains of about 150-160 cars for export to China. Loads orginate in Southern Utah not sure what mine though. I'm curirous as too how they are shipping iron ore in aluminum hoppers. I wonder if they had their interiors coated to prevent cross corrosion of the aluminum. Any insight into this would be appreciated.
So it seems UP has made an annoucement some of us have been waiting for. UP will finally open a intermodal ramp at West Colton albeit a small one to begin with. If the traffic base grows I imagine UP will push classification to Roseville and convert West Colton into an IM ramp. Maybe UP is starting to wake up or somebody is prodding them to get into growing traffic... Either way these annoucements are great news first G4 transload. Now West Colton. Article here.
BaltACD charlie hebdo "Regional producers and processors will be able to transport their product by truck to Global IV, where it will be transloaded into intermodal marine containers for shipment by rail to West Coast ports, then loaded onto ocean carriers and shipped to overseas markets." Which begs the question - why aren't Regional producers and processors able to load international containers on their own and deliver them to the intermodal terminal for furtherance.
charlie hebdo "Regional producers and processors will be able to transport their product by truck to Global IV, where it will be transloaded into intermodal marine containers for shipment by rail to West Coast ports, then loaded onto ocean carriers and shipped to overseas markets."
Which begs the question - why aren't Regional producers and processors able to load international containers on their own and deliver them to the intermodal terminal for furtherance.
A 40' Container has a combined chassis and box tare weight in a range of 15K-15.3K lbs. A hopper trailer for hauling grain has a tare weight range of 7.5K-10K lbs. The farmer can haul more net grain to the terminal at a cheaper rate. Cutting the amount of trips as well.
Maersk, MSC or whoever owns the box. Gets higher utilization due to the box not straying away from the terminal and being held captive at a farmer/co-ops silo. This is a win-win for everyone, and I would not be surprised to see this replicated throughout the rest of the industry.
charlie hebdo"Regional producers and processors will be able to transport their product by truck to Global IV, where it will be transloaded into intermodal marine containers for shipment by rail to West Coast ports, then loaded onto ocean carriers and shipped to overseas markets."
"Regional producers and processors will be able to transport their product by truck to Global IV, where it will be transloaded into intermodal marine containers for shipment by rail to West Coast ports, then loaded onto ocean carriers and shipped to overseas markets."
SD60MAC9500UP is currently in the process of completing a transload facility inside it's Global 4 (G4) Logistics Park in Joleit, IL. Completion is scheduled for Q4 21. The facility will create a backhaul of Midwestern Grains loaded into ISO containers for export to the West Coast. This is a great idea as trains can be filled out at point of origin instead of creating a work event down the road. Maybe UP is finally waking up, but time will tell.. News article here Photo Credit UP
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