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Trial set over UP engineer's request to bring service dog to work

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 3:54 PM

Will the animal climb cab steps on its own?  That first step is a big one from ground level, or from ground level at the edge of the ballast.

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Posted by selector on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 3:47 PM

The organization that must respond has to make a case for 'bonafide operational requirement.'  For service personnel in the Canadian military, the bottom line when such rulings go before the courts is whether the person can be placed as a sentry to guard a military or government establishment without food, drink, or other eventually necessaries (yes, that's a legal and correct term...necessaries), including medications, for extended periods in all kinds of weather.  Think if a Type 1 diabetic who requires at the very least a replenishment of insulin if he/she has a pump, or who needs regular injections, or recourse to meals.  This may not be practicable or even possible during an insurrection or other emergency where the person's terms of service and job description require them to proceed as directed and to stand guard for many hours, without relief.

Similarly, what restriction on an engineer's stated duties and terms of employment are there when a dog is permitted in the cab?  What unacceptable liabilities will underwriters have to accept, or the public, or the employer if the dog is deemed essential by judgement, and that such requirements are deemed to be reasonable and enforceable?

If one develops a condition that precludes that bottom line of standing guard at a gate, or along a fenceline, for hours without rest or reprieve, Canadian service personnel's cases go before a medical board. They are almost universally designated as unsuitable for service in any capacity, at which they are released from their current terms of service.  This is supported on the basis of 'equity in service' where all service personnel are required to be able to serve at least in this very limited, but essential, capacity, other restrictions, limitations (including medical), and other impediments of a more temporary or lesser degree notwithstanding.  

So, UPRR will have to generate a convincing a robust argument that having even a well-trained and highly necessary animal in the cab of an operating engineer is going to be a detriment, perhaps even a danger, to the engineer, his crew, and/or to the public.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 3:41 PM

zugmann
 
BaltACD
How is it that he worked as a Conductor without need for the therapy animal. but now that he is an engineer he needs the animal. 

There is a lot more mental stress on that side of the cab.  And that's not even factoring in all the PSR-EHH BS that is in play. 

If you can't emotionally handle the stress of 'promotion' to the other side of the engine it is time to look for another form of work - within or without your present employer.

Personally, I don't see how a 'support animal' will assist the person to make correct decisions at the proper times in the operation of a locomotive and the train which it will be hauling.

I suspect this situation has been created by the 'mandatory promotion' provisions that were written into the contracts that apply to Conductors in the 1990's and 21st Century.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 3:30 PM

BaltACD
How is it that he worked as a Conductor without need for the therapy animal. but now that he is an engineer he needs the animal.

There is a lot more mental stress on that side of the cab.  And that's not even factoring in all the PSR-EHH BS that is in play. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 3:24 PM

tree68
We talk a lot here about vetting potential crew members.  Would this fellow pass the initial vetting as a new hire? 

I understand the PTSD thing and sympathize with it.  But at some point we need to ask if we want someone whose condition calls for a service/support animal at the controls of a 15,000 foot train of crude oil... 

Harsh, I know.

How is it that he worked as a Conductor without need for the therapy animal. but now that he is an engineer he needs the animal.

Why aren't effective treatments being developed for PTSD, rather changing all the surroundings around a individual with PTSD.

PTSD individuals need treatment and therapy to allow them to function in society as it exists rather than to change everything in society.  

VA personnel heed to be enhanced with more therapists with more training and more funding to assist the multitude of servicemen whose service placed them in the positions that generate PTSD.  Private helthcare plans need to cover PTSD, not just brush it aside as most do these days.

Healthcare needs to be all about HEALTH, not about profit.

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Posted by adkrr64 on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 2:51 PM

caldreamer
Under ADA he is allowd to have a therapy dog with him at work/  He will win his case aaginst UP.

Not sure the ADA applies here. Railroads have their own federal regulatory regime, and and it could be that FRA regulations (however they might pertain to this situation) would supercede the ADA (I am no lawyer and do not know for sure one way or the other). ADA has been around for some 30 years and the RRs have not had to make locomtive cabs accessible to wheel chairs yet.

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 2:42 PM

What happens if the other person in the cab has a severe dog allergy? Serious question as I know people with dog allergies.

With respect to service versus therapy dogs, service dogs typically get a lot more training than therapy dogs and this are allowed in places where therapy dogs can be excluded.

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Posted by caldreamer on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 2:05 PM

Under ADA he is allowd to have a therapy dog with him at work/  He will win his case aaginst UP.

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 1:26 PM

Dogs go to the vet all the time...it shouldn't be a problem!Big Smile

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 1:08 PM

We talk a lot here about vetting potential crew members.  Would this fellow pass the initial vetting as a new hire? 

I understand the PTSD thing and sympathize with it.  But at some point we need to ask if we want someone whose condition calls for a service/support animal at the controls of a 15,000 foot train of crude oil... 

Harsh, I know.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 12:19 PM

steve-in-kville
Maybe this varies from state to state, but a service dog can go about anywhere, but the other can be asked to leave? Could be wrong there. BTW- I can't find the link to this article.
 

Here is link

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/sep/07/dog-at-work-suit-heads-to-trial/?latest

Fear of unknown possible ramifications of allowing an animal on a train by UP  may be the reason for denying request. But I expect they will loose this case. Typical management fear of change and setting precients. 

 

 

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 11:37 AM

charlie hebdo

Obviously some folks here are fans of the politics of resentment. 

 

Not at all.  What alphas said and what I concur with is in too many cases it seems to be the nature of some to abuse a priviledge when that priviledge is extended. 

And as far as I know the admission of service and therapy dogs to business establishments is a priviledge, not a right.  Most places extend the priviledge gladly because it's the right thing to do and it's good for business as well. 

By the way, I'm all in favor of that UP engineer having his therapy dog on board.  Why not?  Animals as "train crew" used to be an old railroad tradition.  Dogs, cats, parrots, ducks, and bunny rabbits used to be quite common as pets of the train crews.  

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 10:11 AM
I have a therapy turtle. Don't judge.

Regards - Steve

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 9:45 AM

charlie hebdo

Obviously some folks here are fans of the politics of resentment. 

 

Not at all.  I'm all for service dogs.  I'm all for companion/therapy dogs once there are standardized certifications.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 9:34 AM

Obviously some folks here are fans of the politics of resentment. 

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Posted by adkrr64 on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 8:53 AM

alphas
It is heavily abused and that's why various states are cracking down on it.

Yeah, the therapy chickens, iguanas, et. al. raised a few eyebrows.

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Posted by alphas on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 7:45 AM

In some states anyone can get a pet named as a "companion".     Allows you to have a pet in otherwise non-pet places.     It is heavily abused and that's why various states are cracking down on it.

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 7:15 AM

steve-in-kville
Maybe this varies from state to state, but a service dog can go about anywhere, but the other can be asked to leave? Could be wrong there. BTW- I can't find the link to this article. 

Pretty much correct.  Service dogs have papers, many "therapy" or "companion" dogs don't.

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 7:08 AM
Maybe this varies from state to state, but a service dog can go about anywhere, but the other can be asked to leave? Could be wrong there. BTW- I can't find the link to this article.

Regards - Steve

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 6:43 AM

They refer mostly to the same usage.   Service dogs are trained to assist folks with a diagnosed disability. Therapy dogs are a subset used for people with a diagnosed mental health condition in which a companion dog reduces anxiety. 

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 6:15 AM
Didn't read the article yet, but a "service dog" or "therapy dog." I think there is a difference.

Regards - Steve

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Trial set over UP engineer's request to bring service dog to work
Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, September 8, 2020 9:33 PM

[The subject line is the NEWSWire topic in today's newswire.]

As a vet and railfan; I found this one to be a potential game changer in todays railroad world.

 The subject was hired and working as a full employee of UPRR in NLR Ar. Was also a member of the Army(Ark) National Guard.  Leaves active UPR employment to go on a deployment for 5 years. While on deployment he suffers 'injuries' culmanating in his diagnosis of PTSD and also a'brain injury'(?) and his medical discharge. 

     Returns to work at UPR where he is re-hired, and works without any 'special work needs,requests'(?). 

        At some point he is promoted from conductor to engineer.  and then suffers 'issues' around his PTSD disgnosis/ military diagnoses(?). A Therepist recomends that he get a 'service dog' to help him cope with the issues around his service injuries.  That is, apparently, the point at which , the UPR 'denied his request' to have his service dog at work (?)

  So then the employee has no other route than to file a lawsuit, under The Americans with Disabilities Act, and the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.

 Amore detailed account is in the TRAINS NEWSWire, and the linked article from The Arkansas Gazette article.   Looks like one of thiose things that whatever way it is decided in Court; it will potentially, have wide ramifications. 

 

 

 

 


 

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