Flangeway Danger to the Public

[Murphy Siding]

Euclid

 

SD70Dude

We have enough problems with derailments caused by obstructed flangeways. Good luck convincing the railroads and regulators to deliberately put stuff in them.

 

 

 

According to the product claims, the purpose and benefit of the flangeway fillers is two-fold:

 

1. To eliminate the flangeway hazard to the public using the crossing.

2. To eliminate the flangeway ice and debris obstruction hazard to trains.   

 

 

And make the buyer irresistible to members of the opposite sex!

[rdamon]

Yes, but is it known to the State of California to cause cancer?

[tree68]

BaltACD

Makers of products claim many things that their products don't deliver.

Hey - it sounds good on paper!

[BaltACD]

Euclid

 

SD70Dude

We have enough problems with derailments caused by obstructed flangeways. Good luck convincing the railroads and regulators to deliberately put stuff in them. 

According to the product claims, the purpose and benefit of the flangeway fillers is two-fold: 

1. To eliminate the flangeway hazard to the public using the crossing.

2. To eliminate the flangeway ice and debris obstruction hazard to trains.   

Makers of products claim many things that their products don't deliver.

[Euclid]

SD70Dude

We have enough problems with derailments caused by obstructed flangeways. Good luck convincing the railroads and regulators to deliberately put stuff in them.

 

According to the product claims, the purpose and benefit of the flangeway fillers is two-fold:

 

1. To eliminate the flangeway hazard to the public using the crossing.

2. To eliminate the flangeway ice and debris obstruction hazard to trains.   

 

[charlie hebdo]

There are numerous flangeway filler designs out there from different companies all over the world. The hazards are just an excuse to spend nothing and do nothing. Here are just a few. 

https://www.nap.edu/read/22800/chapter/5

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2020/0063374.html

https://www.environmental-expert.com/products/flangeway-filler-strip-126618

 

[SD70Dude]

Overmod

tree68

Two threads on this aren't enough?

Previous experience with Euclid and his predecessor Bucky have taught you that little? 

I'm still waiting for 'Terex' to join the chat......

We have enough problems with derailments caused by obstructed flangeways.  Good luck convincing the railroads and regulators to deliberately put stuff in them.

[Overmod]

What I meant is that extraordinary care, discipline, and 'situational awareness' are necessary wherever flanging is necessary to clear packed snow and ice out of 'flange clearance' areas, likely complicated because of the need in unimproved crossing flangeways - almost a what-is-not-forbidden-is-mandatory thing.  And this likely being the case for a particular line until ALL its crossings have been fully 'top-fillered'...

Either very precise location or very careful vigilance is needed as even one 'miss' involves potentially huge consequences.  Not so much in absolute safety, but in rapid-response costs to 'remediate' what gets torn up or torn out if there is one little slip...

[Euclid]

Overmod

This is a cute treatise but it fails to address the #1 issue with flangeway fillers since the Lord proposed them to Noah: what about flanger operation?

Maybe I misunderstand your point, but to my knowledge, flangers have no ability to run through a grade crossing and clean out the flangeways.  Flangers are intended to cut snow below the cut bottom of a snow plow pass which is maybe 3-6” above the top of the rail.  Then a flanger is run to cut more snow out to a lower elevation to about 3-5” below the tops of the rails.  The flanger blade is notched out at each rail location so it can cut below the top of the rail elevation along the outside of the rails and in between them. 

While snow plows can pass right over a grade crossing just like on the rest of the track, flangers must be raised in order to pass over a grade crossing.  Otherwise, it will snag the crossing planks and tear them out or it will derail the flanger and probably the locomotive pushing it. 

This is why there is a flanger sign posted on both sides of every grade crossing.  It is to tell the flanger operator to raise the blade to clear the height of the crossing.  Flangers must also be raised for other features such as switches, railroad crossings (diamonds), guard rails and tie spacing timbers on bridges and trestles, and anything else that is built up higher than the tops of the ties. 

But to the point of flangeway fillers or railseals interfering with ice removal, I have read the manufacturer’s claims that flangeway fillers and railseals actually eliminate the ice accumulation problem with grade crossing flangeways.  I detail this in the last paragraph of the first post here. 

So, I conclude that both railseals with their very shallow flangeway and flangeway fillers with no flangeway at all actually solve the icing problem that is the reason for the extremely wide and deep flangeways in the first place.   

So instead of viewing this as the flangeway filler or railseal merely offering a smaller or practically non-existent version of the current giant flangeway; it is actually that the filler or seal make the smaller flangeway possible by their ability to exclude ice and snow buildup without resorting to a giant flangeway to give more capacity to hold ice and snow. 

[Overmod]

tree68

Two threads on this aren't enough?

Previous experience with Euclid and his predecessor Bucky have taught you that little? 

He has done very good critical thinking about the risks to power chairs; that alone makes this thread distinctively relevant as a thread...

[Overmod]

This is a cute treatise but it fails to address the #1 issue with flangeway fillers since the Lord proposed them to Noah: what about flanger operation?

About the best I have come up with in a great deal of time is very precise GPS beaconing that can raise and lower flanger cutters at these crossings, for example via a high-accuracy  version of that grade-crossing location app that has now disappeared; or some kind of ramp analogous to those used for some kind of steam-locomotive water scoop that trip retract when encountered ... I don't agree with automatic re-extension but professionals may laugh at me for that.

I also toyed with the idea of a relatively large-diameter sectional wheel, in place of a straight flanger cutter, that would break up and expel ice from the gap, but just press down full-height elastomer fillers -- didn't some sleet cutters work a comparable way?  In constant running these would dress the gauge face of the rail continuously and by extension even 'pickable' facing points without throwing them open...

[adkrr64]

tree68

Two threads on this aren't enough?

If two threads are good, three must be better...

[tree68]

Two threads on this aren't enough?

[Euclid]

Railroad Grade Crossing Flangeway Dangers

 

WHEEL CHAIRS & MOBILITY SCOOTERS:

The primary hazard is getting the wider wheels pressed into flangeways so tightly that they cannot be withdrawn.  Then if the person riding in the device is unable to leave it due to a physical disability, they may be struck by a train unless help arrives in time. 

The problem can be avoided if the user crosses perpendicular to the track, however, lapses in that requirement are inevitable since the devices have zero turn attributes and the user is accustomed to using this ability for navigating various obstructions.  They will be far more accustomed to impulsive sharp turns than they are to the admonition to cross grade crossings at right angles; especially when the need to do so is completely unapparent without practical experience. 

Also, the lead wheels are typically on casters, and even a slight range of zero-turn application will immediately turn the casters at right-angles to the direction of travel.  If this happens as the casters are about to cross a flangeway, it aligns the casters to drop into the flangeway. 

Also, the casters are easily unintentionally rotated by minor obstructions in the path of travel.  Since the flangeway is a major obstruction to a caster, the flangeway alone poses the risk of accidentally rotating the caster ninety-degrees so its wheel is parallel to the flangeway, which the wheel then can easily drop into.  If that happens, the wheel may become stuck against withdrawal.  This is a fatal danger that can come as a complete surprise.

 

BICYCLES:

Compared to users of wheelchairs, bicyclists typically are not confined to the bicycle due to a disability.  They are also typically traveling much faster than wheelchair uses; and have wheels narrower and larger diameter than the leading wheels of wheel chairs and mobility scooters.

The primary danger with bicycles passing over grade crossings is a crossing flangeways being at an oblique angle to the bicycle line of travel.  Then the wheels might drop into the flangeway and cause the bicycle to abruptly veer off course, thus causing it to tip over.  When it tips over, the rider can be thrown against the ground and injured.  Another result is that a wheel that drops into a flangeway can suddenly bind against forward movement.  In that case, it can stop the bicycle and catapult the rider off head-first into the ground ahead.  

So, compared to users of wheelchairs and mobility scooters, the danger to bicyclists is not getting struck by a train.  The danger to bicyclists is instead being thrown off the bicycle at considerable speed.     

 

PEDESTRIANS:

The danger to pedestrians is the risk of stepping on the rail, getting a foot stuck in the flangeway, or being injured by dropping a foot into the flangeway.  Stepping on the rail is a fall hazard almost completely unrecognized outside of the industry.  The general public sees no danger in stepping on the rail.  They may even try to balance as they walk on the rail for sport.  But the railroad industry has a rule that forbids stepping on a rail.  For the fall hazard to really kick in, one needs to have snow packed into their tread pattern of their boots and then step on a polished rail head.

Dropping a foot into a flangeway could result in ankle injury, and is best prevented by having enough illumination to see the flangeway, since pedestrians have time to see it and avoid stepping into it.

The second problem with dropping a foot into a flangeway is having it wedge in to the extent that it cannot be pulled out.  This is most critical if a person in such a predicament cannot untie the boot or shoe, or otherwise remove their foot from the lodged footwear.  If this occurs, the problem is the same as a disabled person with a flangeway-stuck wheeled device being unable to escape the devise to a safe position to avoid being struck by a train. 

 

SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM:

All of these dangers could be mitigated with shallower flangeways.  A flangeway 2.5 inches wide by 1.5 inches deep would solve all of the problems except for the following:  For the problem of bicyclists having their wheels caused to veer off course and tipping over the bicycle; the only site design solution would be flangeways that are completely filled normally, but deflect to accept the flanges of passing trains.  For the problem of pedestrians stepping on the rail, there is no solution that can be implemented by changes in crossing features.

 

SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM SECONDARY BENEFIT TO THE RAILROADS:

This industry seems to prefer flangeways that are far larger than the minimum suggested above of 2.5” wide by 1.5” deep.  The largest size is about 4” wide by 7” deep; or 7.5 times larger in cross section.  The objective of the large flangeway seems to be to provide better drainage, and to also provide a larger volume to hold more packed snow and other debris.  The ability to hold more of these obstructions increases the interval between flangeway cleaning to clear snow, ice, and debris. 

However, the flangeway filler eliminates flangeway, so there is none to be filled with snow, ice, or debris.  Likewise, the railseal presents a shallow flangeway made of elastomer that will flex if ice builds up to the point of contacting the wheel flanges.  When that happens, the floor of the flangeway will flex and break the bond of ice as the wheel flanges shatter the ice and expel it from the flangeway. 

So the flangeway is self-cleaning with a railseal, and thus there is no need for a deep, wide flangeway to provide a large volume capacity to hold debris to reduce the frequency of cleanout.  Both the railseal and the flangeway filler are extruded elastomer.  The extrusions contain hollow voids.  So even if ice accumulates below the elastomer railseal or flangeway filler, the railcar flanges are still able to compress these devices, so they can deflect due to their flexible nature and the ability to take up the compression by collapsing their hollow voids.