Killed while cleaning his gun was, I've heard, in the first news releases about the death of Ernest Hemingway. People couldn't accept it otherwise.
About the movie "The Train" honestly, who that follows this forum hasn't seen it? It's what turned me on to European trains and I've had a European layout since 1967. Not the same one but still.
duplicate post, sorry.
In all the combat footage I've seen of planes strafing trains I've never seen a boiler explosion due to machine gun fire. Typically what you do see is steam shooting out of the smokestack, I'm assuming from the flues being punctured and all that boiler pressure finding a nice, easy outlet.
Of course, I can't say boiler explosions due to strafing never happened, in fact there's an instance of a British locomotive exploding just as the German plane strafing it passed overhead, wrecking the airplane and killing the pilot. I believe I referenced the incident in a previous post. Possibly the German plane, a Focke-Wulf FW190, was cannon-armed, which would have done more damage than an American .50 cal. Browning would have done.
Hawker Tempests and Typhoons, great airplanes! Designed as fighters and not ground attack aircraft they still performed the latter role outstandingly.
I believe there are a few (very few) Tempests and Typhoons in museums, but no flying examples to my knowledge.
54's most likely correct, everyone on this Forum has probably seen "The Train," and probably more than once! But if you haven't, do so! Best railroad film ever!
About the P-47- my Uncle Francis flew them and attacked trains in France and Germany. He said that he would shoot at them and steam would blow out, but never did say if it was leaking from bullet holes or if it was explosions. He was up in the air and didn't hang around. He would make a pass over them to allow the crew to escape but that was only in France. He retired as a Light Colonel in 1967 or thereabouts. We visited him when I was a kid at Westover AFB in Westfield, MA in 1963 during an open house day. There were B-47s taking off, a B-36 that was no longer active but was there as an exhibit and he had an F-86 as his personal transport. He also owned a 1962 Lincoln Continental that made a big impression on my 8 year old self. I've since owned two of 'em.
The Germans, especially as the war lingered on, used A LOT of Forced/Slave labor.. Who knows if the crews of the trains were German.....or French or Eastern European.
Whenever i see video of trains being shot up in France, in 1944, in preparation for D-day, i always wonder if it was the husband of some poor French Lady that was getting killed or hurt.
The allies wanted to cripple the axis oil supply. An article mention the costly air raids on the Ploesti oil fields and refineries were ordered because attacking rail yards was ineffective.
The aricle stated that the Germans used their massive supply of forced labor to quickly repair rail yards.
The company that manufactured Mooney aircraft went bankrupt, locked up, dismissed all employees. Sad.
That is sad, Mooney's a proud old name in General Aviation. They built good planes, many still flying decades after they left the factory.
Mooney went bankrupt in 2008; sat until 2013 when Henan Meijing (nominally a 'real-estate firm') bought them. In 2017 they took on a big chunk of Uber Elevate a day after their then-CEO quit.
I notice that the English-language site for Henan Meijing appears to be down, too, so I think this is not something that reflects poor Mooney International finishing the last waltz.
I'd dearly love to quote the old Mooney bumper-sticker version of the old ...do it... joke. But on this forum it might be "misunderstood". They were fine and great, and I have no particular doubt some version of them will be recapitalized and appear again 'under new ownership' if necessary.
It might be interesting to see how US business and private plane makers are doing. My hunch is they can't compete with overseas manufacturing.
I found a discussion of Mooney on a site called AvWeb, I was looking for additional information on Mooney.
The news story, plus reader's comments. I don't know enough about the subject to say whether they're right or wrong, they'll just have to speak for themselves.
It is interesting though.
https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/mooney-shut-down-employees-furloughed/
In the S.Pac, the 380th and 90th B/G's would switch back and forth between the Texico/Shell/Standard refineries and the rail yards in the Saigon area as well as rail bridges north east of the city. Shipping was mostly done in by US submarines and the Japanese had to rely on rail.
The back cover of the December 2019 issue of Flying just arrived with a full page ad for Mooney Aircraft on the back cover.
No trains here but vintage warbirds? Oh yeah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwrIf_5gEEM
The building of war fish - Liberty & Victory Ships and more -
Materials supplied by trains
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUm6xjXq3MU
A mobilization and training of manpower and the building of facilites that I doubt we will ever see again.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I spent several months aboard a Liberty ship one summer while in USAF (yes, I am a Shellback). It was reconfigured (slightly) as a research vessel.
The round bottom was wonderful in big waves (not). And I understand they had the undesirable habit of breaking apart at a certain frame - I think it was due to being built in two halves and being joined there.
Real speed demons, too. Eleven knots at 88 turns of the triple expansion steam reciprocating engine. And if she was doing that, the whole ship felt it...
But, they did what they were designed to do - haul cargo in mass quantities.
The ship I was on is now razor blades (or fenders on your new Rolls Kanardly).
One highlight of the trip, however, was a rushed trip out of Samoa to serve as a backup recovery ship for Apollo 13. There was an alternate landing site, and had they used that we would have been front and center on the recovery.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68The ship I was on is now razor blades (or fenders on your new Rolls Kanardly).
The John W. Brown is still operable and is docked in the Port of Baltimore. The Brown was constructed in the Bethlehem Steel Shipyard in the Fairfield section of Baltimore in 1942. Keel laid July 28, 1942 - In Service Sept. 19, 1942. Removed from service Nov. 19, 1946.
Acouple of things...
54's vintage warbirds! Oh boy, that was like a visit with old friends! The lead footage is pretty unusual, it was shot in the Middle East, except for Lawrence of Arabia pretty much a forgotten front. Great shots of those Bristol fighters and Martinsydes!
We had the thrill of seeing the Liberty Ship John W. Brown passing under the Chesapeake Bay Bridge a few years ago while we were across it. Outbound on one of their occasional Bay cruises. A float on that ship is on our "one of these days" list.
Yes, some of the first Libertys did break in two during rough seas. The design flaw was noted and quickly corrected. In one of his interviews with US Army historians Hermann Goering said the German high command knew they were in deep trouble when they found out how fast those Liberty Ships were being turned out. As Goering said, "We were amazed! It takes us six months to build a Rhine river steamer!"
He also said he flat-out knew the war was lost when the first P-51's showed up over Berlin.
After the war, the Granville S Hall was used during atom bomb testing in the Pacific. It had a large "bird bath" mounted on the foremast to catch fallout, and a washdown system to clear said fallout from the rest of the ship. That got tested while I was aboard as well (in the very early 1970's).
When I was on her, the bird bath was gone. A helipad had been added forward at some point, upon which was built a shelter for inflating weather balloons, which is why I was on board. The balloon tracker was on top of that shelter, meaning I scaled the thing daily to set it up for the day's run. Great fun in rolling seas...
I recall when the John Brown was a school ship for future merchant mariners, tied up in Brooklyn. It came to Toronto on its way to a shipyard in Ohio to get some work done on the hull and I went for a cruise on it for an afternoon. You could tour the engine room but only on its upper levels. You could not go down to where the crankshaft was turning but you sure got a good view of that triple-expansion engine. The original electrical system of the ship was only 24 volts as I recall. There was a diesel generator in a deckhouse on the afterdeck to operate modern navigational equipment. The ship's lighting was still on 24 volts but I could be wrong about that.
The upper level of the forward hold was accessible and there were bunks and bathrooms from when it was used as a school ship. You could look way down into the lower levels of the hold as they were covered in heavy plexiglass and way down were several 6 x 6 trucks and a few Jeeps. Below the main deckhouse was a fully equipped machine shop and crew's quarters. The steam-powered deck winches were all functional.
The bridge was accessible and the forward view was terrible as there's only 3 small forward-facing windows. The ship is now controlled from a flying bridge on the upper weather deck with a canvas awning. It was sure no luxury liner, but it did lead to the building of Victory ships which were a vast improvement and the idea with them was that they would have commercial value after the war. In the 1970s in Norfolk, you would see them on occasion tied up at the piers. I don't know if any are left today.
54light15the idea with them was that they would have commercial value after the war. In the 1970s in Norfolk, you would see them on occasion tied up at the piers.
I have to wonder how many of them were tied up off Haverstraw or wherever as part of the Hudson River reserve fleet.
Flintlock76 Yes, some of the first Libertys did break in two during rough seas. The design flaw was noted and quickly corrected.
Yes, some of the first Libertys did break in two during rough seas. The design flaw was noted and quickly corrected.
The flaw was that the welded steel had a brittle transition temperature about the freezing point of water, i.e. the ships' hulls fractured in freezing weather. Investigation into the cause of the failures was headed by Earl Parker, who was also instrumental in the development of the theory of dislocations in metal grains (plastic deformation as opposed to elastic deformation).
Remember hearing about the Liberty Ship problem in my intro to Engineering Materials course at Cal - one of the professors was some guy named Earl Parker.
He (Goering) also said he flat-out knew the war was lost when the first P-51's showed up over Berlin.
Reminds of a WW2 story about a Mustang and Spitfire pilot arguing about what was the better fighter. The Mustang pilot challenged the Spitfire pilot to a dogfight - over Berlin.
I remember them tied up in the Hudson, also in Suisun bay in California. But they did show up at the navy base in Norfolk now and then.
P-51 vs Sptifire? That would be something to see! Much as I love the Spit, I would have to give the edge to the Mustang.
Surviving Liberty Ships? There's four.
John W. Brown in Baltimore.
Jeramiah O'Brian in San Francisco.
Albert M. Boe. sold in 1964 and renamed "Star of Kodiak," now the headquarters of Trident Seafoods in Kodiak, AK.
Arthur M. Huddell, sold to Greece in 2008 and now a museum ship in Piraeus.
Surviving Victory Ships
American Victory in Tampa.
Lane Victory in Los Angeles.
Red Oak Victory in Richmond CA.
Spitfire versus a P-51? Well, the late Captain Eric Brown, distinguished British test pilot, flew them both, liked them both, but given the choice would have gone with the Spitfire, although being British he did admit toward a bit of favoritism towards the Spit.
When you come down to it, the victor in a dogfight, all things being equal, is going to be the better pilot and tactician.
By the way, Captain Brown's estimation of the Me-109, he test flew a G model, was it was a good fighter, not a great fighter, but it still could be a dangerous opponent in capable hands.
As long as we're on the subject, the late Frank Tallman comparing the P-51 to the F4U Corsair said that up to around 12,000 feet they were pretty much equal, but above 12,000 in his opinion the Corsair had the edge. He also admitted to a bit of prejudice toward the Corsair since he was a Naval Aviator.
Refreshing honesty!
Re: P-51 vs Spifire, one huge advantage that the P-51 had over the Spit was range, there was no way that a Spitfire could fly to Berlin and back.
One interesting tidbit about the P-51, the laminar flow airfoil was picked for two reasons, one being a better L/D ratio (more range & higher speed), the second in having a high critical Mach number. The later was of great importance in a power dive as pursuing plnes would go into a Mach tuck when the airflow over the wing went transonic. The Grumman Hellcat would go into a Mach tuck at Mach 0.75.
One interesting YouTube Channel is 'Gregs Airplanes and Automobiles' where in Greg disects and explains many of the design considerations that were applied to WW II aircraft from all parties.
A example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqiG9VHuBbM
One of the reasons that Liberty Ships were built with VTE engines instead of steam turbines was to deal with the expected shortage of experienced ship's engineers that would be manning these ships.
Does anybody know the fate of the "Cliffs Victory"? It was rebuilt into the oddest-looking ore boat I've ever seen on the Great Lakes.
Erik_Mag Flintlock76 Yes, some of the first Libertys did break in two during rough seas. The design flaw was noted and quickly corrected. The flaw was that the welded steel had a brittle transition temperature about the freezing point of water, i.e. the ships' hulls fractured in freezing weather. Investigation into the cause of the failures was headed by Earl Parker, who was also instrumental in the development of the theory of dislocations in metal grains (plastic deformation as opposed to elastic deformation).
What was the fix that eliminated 'cold embrittlement' of the weld?
BaltACD Erik_Mag Flintlock76 Yes, some of the first Libertys did break in two during rough seas. The design flaw was noted and quickly corrected. The flaw was that the welded steel had a brittle transition temperature about the freezing point of water, i.e. the ships' hulls fractured in freezing weather. Investigation into the cause of the failures was headed by Earl Parker, who was also instrumental in the development of the theory of dislocations in metal grains (plastic deformation as opposed to elastic deformation). What was the fix that eliminated 'cold embrittlement' of the weld?
It wasn't that hard. Re-enforcement of the hulls and a re-design of the hatch assemblys (where a some of the cracks started) took care of the problem. Also, many of those early Liberty Ships were overloaded, which didn't help matters.
Great P-51 vs. Me-109 video you posted Balt! A much better use of my time rather than watching a dopey sitcom!
I have to go back and look at this more carefully. In the alternate reality I remember, the problem with the brittle transition getting into the steel was connected with the HAZ in some way. I didn't know much about principles of practical welding then so didn't appreciate what the specific fix was -- but the impression was that the welding was where the propagation started, and that at least in early stages the cracking would propagate along the deflicted HAZ seam.
Naturally this was out of published sources, not firsthand exposure to authorities with distinctive competence directly, but I do wonder whether changes to the welding were not the most significant 'fix'.
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