Thanks for that Dude.
Trains Newswire and Sticky above have articles stating CN plans to add 105 mi. of doubletrack in 2019, 75 of it between Edmonton and Winnipeg. I hope they stick to it and don't let large shareholders keep them from doing it.
Here's what I have been able to find so far, but from the map CN put out there should be a few more new/lengthened sidings in BC. Mileages are between the published locations in timetables and bulletins.
- Welby to Spy Hill, SK. 7.1 miles. Extends previous Welby to Latimer double track, with crossovers at Welby.
- Waldron to Cana, SK (just east of Melville). 9.1 miles. Crossovers at Cariati (was this formerly Cana East?).
- Artland to Chauvin, SK. 11.4 miles, with crossovers halfway through at the new controlled location of Nielsen.
- Wainwright to Fabyan, AB. 4.9 miles. One crossover at Wainwright West.
- Tofield to Lindbrook, AB. 7.3 miles.
- Carvel to Spruce Grove, AB. 12 miles, with crossovers at both ends. This connected two existing double track sections, making continuous double track from Edmonton to Wabamun.
- Swan Landing, AB got a second long siding and additional yard tracks. This is the junction between the mainline and the branchline to Grande Prairie.
- Vavenby, BC siding lengthened from 6400' to 15450'.
- New 12900' siding at Payne, BC. This is on the Telkwa Sub, between Endako and Smithers, BC.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
You could have 20 main tracks from end to end and it won't make a lick of difference when it comes to the real killer - terminal congestion.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
Thanks SD70Dude. Nice to see progress being made. And I see today that there is another newswire story about more CN double tracking construction between Wpg-Edm this year.
dwill49965 Hello - can anyone provide an update on the status of all these expansion projects? Did they all get completed on time and does anyone know if they have significantly reduced bottlenecks?
Hello - can anyone provide an update on the status of all these expansion projects? Did they all get completed on time and does anyone know if they have significantly reduced bottlenecks?
I believe the Western Canada siding and double track projects have all been completed, not sure about yard improvements. Will have a look at the bulletins next time I am at work and post a list soon. The additional track is helping, but things are still congested.
Also of note, it appears that work has begun to re-open the hump at Walker Yard in Edmonton. Going to be a big job, hope they see it through.
matthewsaggie Using the stimulis funds pased during the Obama administration, NCDOT has restored all tbe double track between Greensboro and Charlotte taken up by the Southern. This additional capacity is what has allowed the addition of the third and soon to be fourth Piedmonts in each direction.
Using the stimulis funds pased during the Obama administration, NCDOT has restored all tbe double track between Greensboro and Charlotte taken up by the Southern. This additional capacity is what has allowed the addition of the third and soon to be fourth Piedmonts in each direction.
DeggestyMac, about 50 years ago, the Southern reduced its double track line between Washington and Atlanta to roughly 10 miles single and 10 miles double track. I think the same thing was done to the Cincinnati-Oakdale double track in the same time frame. I amy have missed it, but I have not seen anything about restoring the double track that was taken up.
I amy have missed it, but I have not seen anything about restoring the double track that was taken up.
That kind of thinking struck the B&O in the early 60's and was implemented between Sherwood, OH and Pine Jct., IN with CTC as the manner of operation. It remained that way until CSX announced the CR acquisition plan when construction commenced to make the line at least double track all the way with some areas of triple track all operated by CTC.
Similar plant rationalization was applied between Philadelphia and Baltimore as well as on the Old Main Line between Baltimore and Point of Rocks. In these instances sidings were used instead of double track.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I was unaware of that, but not surprised. To think that they managed to figure it out without computers and consultants. Bless their hearts!
Mac, about 50 years ago, the Southern reduced its double track line between Washington and Atlanta to roughly 10 miles single and 10 miles double track. I think the same thing was done to the Cincinnati-Oakdale double track in the same time frame.
Johnny
blue streak 1 Quesstion for our dispatching experts. If any RR wants to run extra long trains both ways that will not fit in sidings can a RR be dispatched if it had about 40 miles of double track followed by about 40 miles of single track and 40 miles of double track and so on ? Realize ruling grades and topography would be complicating factors. How easy would it be to dispatch fleets of extra long trains to meet on the double track sections? How much would trains be slowed by the tail end charlies clearing the single track ? Also realize effective power to weight ratio would have to be nearly identical.
Quesstion for our dispatching experts. If any RR wants to run extra long trains both ways that will not fit in sidings can a RR be dispatched if it had about 40 miles of double track followed by about 40 miles of single track and 40 miles of double track and so on ?
Realize ruling grades and topography would be complicating factors.
How easy would it be to dispatch fleets of extra long trains to meet on the double track sections? How much would trains be slowed by the tail end charlies clearing the single track ?
Also realize effective power to weight ratio would have to be nearly identical.
Streak,
I have worked as a dispatcher but not on the kind of line you describe so this answer is largely theoretical.
Your description is incomplete in that you do not say anything about number and length of intermediate short sidings, so I will make the simplifying, and probably unrealistic, assumption that there are none.
Assuming more or less flat ground and a reasonable power to weight ratio, your 40 mile segments are about an hour travel time. If you want to fleet trains, that will gobble up another 8-10 miles to allow following trains to run on clear blocks, so allow about 15 minutes for each addtional train in a fleet. Assuming single trains and one east then one west your capacity is one train per hour, or 24 per day, 12 each way. Fleeting two or three trains would increase capacity at some cost in velocity, so you would not get the full multiple due to lost velocity.
A much better arrangement would be 10 miles single, ten miles double. Your travel time between stations is now nominal 15 minutes. That gives you a theoretical capacity of 4 trains per hour AND the amount of second track is identical. This would be much easier to dispatch and should generate less train delay than the other.
Either way the key issue is combined running and clearing time. Each arrangement would be best with diverging switches good for 40 MPH or better. A two mile long train at 40 MPH will take a bit less than four minutes to clear any particular point.
Mac
About 2/3 of grading between Spruce Grove and Carvel has been completed, and they are starting to put panel track in at crossings, temporarily closing one at a time, mostly at night:
http://www.stonyplain.com/Town-Services/Roads-and-Infrastructure/Construction-Updates/CN-Twinning.htm
And now they are starting to talk about really planning for the future, this NewsWire article also contains a updated map:
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/07/25-cn-envisions-slowly-double-tracking-main-line-from-edmonton-to-winnipeg
On my way home today, noticed four sticks of welded rail were dropped this week in Burlington, WI, I'm presuming they are either for the expansion of Nestle siding, or replacement of the curve rail in town.........
Randy Vos
"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings
"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV
SD70Dude.. I'm guessin you work for CN.. you appear to know everything there is to know about CN right of way and ops..
380000 ties and 90 miles of rail over the whole province is a drop in the bucket as well.
ONE (1) new siding in northern Ontario! My goodness, they've solved that line's capacity problem!
Seriously though, it would take about a dozen more to make a good start on solving that line's capacity problems, which are entirely caused by running long, over-siding trains.
The local NIMBYs have been complaining about the new Milton Intermodal Terminal project for some time already, perhaps the "temporary" improvements at BIT are a result of this?
Program includes track and intermodal projects to boost capacity and improve efficiency across the province
TORONTO, July 11, 2018 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- CN (TSX:CNR) (NYSE:CNI) said today it plans to invest approximately $315 million in Ontario in 2018 to expand and strengthen the company’s rail network across the province.
Planned expansion projects include:
Maintenance program highlights include:
CN is supposed to be starting a project to extend Nestle siding into Burlington, WI, soon, they are also paying to reconfigure some streets so they can close one railroad crossing.........
Newswire article with a map:
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/06/05-canadian-national-pledges-to-stay-ahead-of-traffic-growth
Here is a CN merchandise train with some healthy cuts of boxcars. It is a long one.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4PYGRu-hXxA
Thank you all for your insight. Here's another article discussing in somewhat better detail the new sidings and siding extensions on the various corridors in Western Canada along with new purchases: http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/05/17-operations-improve-on-canadian-national-as-traffic-growth-resumes?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=News0_TRN_180521_000000_%20Sub&utm_content=&spMailingID=34378674&spUserID=MTE2ODA0MTUwMTc2S0&spJobID=1282430516&spReportId=MTI4MjQzMDUxNgS2.
In looking at this a previous article posted, it mentioned that a siding north of Kamloops was going to be expanded to 12,000, so I will assume it is in BC. Since I know the Clearwater and Albreda Subdivisions quite well, two that I can probably eliminate due to constraints with cliffs along the North Thompson River are Boulder and Exlou, both on the Clearwater Sub. That leaves the following sidings under 12,000 feet:
For ones along the Prince Rupert Corridor, of which three are subject to siding extensions, this could be any of the following 17 (going from east to west):
Never really went into this much research on the sidings less 12,000 feet on the Prince Rupert, but 17 is quite a few to be so short CN's huge trains. Also, this couldn't come at a better time with a new ocean carrier calling into Prince Rupert and expected many more containers for trains (also mentioned in article).
I think it is interesting how CN is ordering many new boxcars and one comment on the article was surprised by CN doing this. Many of CN's mixed freights contain tons of boxcars all over their systems. I am glad as I love boxcars as part of rolling stock. UP also uses boxcars quite extensively as well. Less so for BNSF and CP.
Coming south out of Pokegama Yard in WI, where CN makes the climb out of the Duluth basin to Chicago, they have double track going in from just after the Amnicon River bridge to the siding at Gun Club Road at Hawthorn, WI. As of yesterday the right of way was graded and most of the rail and ties were down. There are several locations where one crossing gate has yet to be moved out of the way of the new track. The new track is laid to the east of the existing main, so should be the northbound (downhill) track while the existing main becomes the southbound (uphill) track. CN puts on quite a show in the Duluth area going both ways. The housing industry must be doing okay. I saw a solid train of empty centerbeams heading north to Canada for more loads, as well as a doublestack and two manifests in the space of an hour, as well as a UP manifest heading south on trackage rights.
I asked this question a couple of days ago on a couple on Canadian lists and got quite a few replies.
There are confirmed reports that Waldron to Cana (10 miles) on the Rivers sub is currently being done. When this is done they are supposed to do from Bailey (end of 2 trks) to Fenwood, west of Melville on the Watrous sub.
From end of 2 Trks at Welby,SK to Spy Hill on the Rivers sub. 8 miles.
Rumours of Rivers to Stenberg. (started in the 1980's)
Spruce Grove to Carvel is being done now as reported.
Artland to Chauvin and Wainwright to Fabyan on the Wainwright sub rumoured to being done.
I think that is most of them.
Work began in mid-April on the Spruce Grove-Carvel, AB double track segment. Brush clearing has been completed and grading has started.
I know of one in Hawthorne, WI as per this photo from railpictures.net: http://railpictures.net/photo/655812/.
I also believe the double-tracking east of Melville, SK is on the verge of commencing, but I don't for sure. I will see if I can find some more articles.
There was an article last week from the News Wire that compared CN's current troubles to that of BNSF in 2013 and 2014 when they faced a boom of commodities. This article also address briefly addresses siding extensions, including two that are known (the Spruce Grove to Carvel 12 mile segment and double-track section going southeast from Melville). They also surprisingly talk about a siding extension north of Kamloops, which sounds like it will be on the Clearwater Sub. Sadly, they don't specify other sidings extensions in BC, Alberta, and Saskatchewan: http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/04/12-cns-capacity-problems-echo-bnsfs-woes-of-2013-14?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=News0_TRN_180416_000000_Final&utm_content=&spMailingID=33901974&spUserID=MTE2ODA0MTUwMTc2S0&spJobID=1261918967&spReportId=MTI2MTkxODk2NwS2.
There is actually a lot of information in the article. I have to go through more of it for further comment.
30-40 trains a day sounds right to me.
As it is currently single track trains do not normally stop in the Stony Plain-Spruce Grove area. That will not change with double tracking as all the crossings will still be there.
Of course trains occasionally break down and have to stop. But this is the case everywhere, and not a significant concern here.
The firefighters are probably counting every single time they had to wait at a crossing, even for fast-moving trains.
I am sure the daycare staff and parents know about the nearby railroad. I personally would be more concerned about the traffic on 50 St as a threat to the kids.
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