Just saw on the Weather Channel. Gates were up at crossing.
http://fox13now.com/2017/01/24/caught-on-video-uta-frontrunner-train-crashes-into-fedex-truck/
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
richg1998 Just saw on the Weather Channel. Gates were up at crossing. http://fox13now.com/2017/01/24/caught-on-video-uta-frontrunner-train-crashes-into-fedex-truck/ Rich
Truck was a FedEx contractor rig. You can bet this will be one to be settled by lawyers. At least there were no really serious injuries, reported.
Article seems to state that the crossing protection had been taken out of service by a UTA signalman account of continuous activation account of an ice storm.
The question then becomes, what sort of protection the signalman set up with the traffic controller to have trains stop and flag the crossing, or if the train involved overlooked the stop and flag order. Either way UTA is on the hook.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I encountered a malfunction crossing once.. downtown Toronto.. The train would come through and THEN the lights and crossing arm would come down. Was like that for days until I called CN myself to tell them about it. Since then I always look carefully both ways before crossing because I don't want to be dead right.
Just watching the WC again. The gates came down after the train was gone and the truck cab was sideways.
rich
One of my signal maintainer friends tells me heavy rain, snow and ice can wreak havoc with the track circuits.
Norm
I was also wondering if the pickup truck parked near the equipment box is the MOW crew.
Google train hits fedex truck. Not the first time but apparently not the drivers fault.
Norm48327 One of my signal maintainer friends tells me heavy rain, snow and ice can wreak havoc with the track circuits.
Not to mention the salt used to combat said snow and ice...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I would think those problems would short the circuit and cause false activation, which is mainly a nuisance. That was apparently what was happening sporadically, so (maybe) the company took the signals out of service. But then, if that is so, the signals failed to activate which is deadly. If the signals had been taken out of service, I assume they failed to activate because they had been taken out of service, and not because of water, ice, snow, and salt conditions.
EuclidI would think those problems would short the circuit and cause false activation, which is mainly a nuisance.
And you'd be right. The flip side is adjusting the sensitivity to account for the reduced resistance between the rails and not detecting trains when things dry out.
tree68 Euclid I would think those problems would short the circuit and cause false activation, which is mainly a nuisance. And you'd be right. The flip side is adjusting the sensitivity to account for the reduced resistance between the rails and not detecting trains when things dry out.
Euclid I would think those problems would short the circuit and cause false activation, which is mainly a nuisance.
Maybe that is what happened. That sounds like rather risky business.
Euclid tree68 Euclid And you'd be right. The flip side is adjusting the sensitivity to account for the reduced resistance between the rails and not detecting trains when things dry out. Maybe that is what happened. That sounds like rather risky business.
tree68 Euclid And you'd be right. The flip side is adjusting the sensitivity to account for the reduced resistance between the rails and not detecting trains when things dry out.
Euclid
Didn't anybody READ the article?
I read it. I was looking for what you said about it.
BaltACD Article seems to state that the crossing protection had been taken out of service by a UTA signalman account of continuous activation account of an ice storm.
How does the article seem to state that?
Quote from the link:
“According to UTA, a preliminary investigation shows the crossing gates were up and the flashing lights and bells that normally indicate a train is approaching were not active.
"In the event of a power outage or lack of signal, crossing gates are programmed to default to the “down and active” position as a safety precaution. Preliminary information indicates the gates were affected by the severe ice and snow conditions at the time and were in the default “down and active” position, as they are programmed. After an employee responded to the location, the gates moved to the up position. The agency has never had an accident like this before, and UTA is investigating why and how it happened to ensure it doesn’t occur again," UTA wrote in a statement released Tuesday.”
Whatever this report is trying to say, according to the video, the gates were up when the crash happened, then came down afterward, and then went up again before the video ended. I don’t understand the point you made about the employee taking the signals out of service.
Euclid (1-24):
The article said, “After an employee responded to the location, the gates moved to the up position.” BaltACD said, the “Article SEEMS to state that the crossing protection had been taken out of service” …I personally interpret what the article said just as BaltACD did. In that light, my assessment of the situation is that someone didn’t do their job correctly or got mixed up.
To All:
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Euclid I don’t understand the point you made about the employee taking the signals out of service.
It's simple - a signal maintainer can easily shut off the crossing protection from within the "hut." This was at issue a few years back when a car (full of kids, I think) went through a crossing and go hit by an oncoming train. The maintainer had allegedly de-activated the crossing and had forgotten to re-activate it.
If the misbehaving crossing was tying up traffic badly, he may have been trying to clear that.
What seems to have happened here is that a maintainer deactivated the crossing protection without coordinating it with the dispatcher, who would have issued alternative instructions (stop and flag, etc) to any trains that would be using the crossing. Or the DS didn't pass along the information, or the crew ignored it.
The maintainer may not have been aware of the imminent arrival of a train, so did not plan accordingly.
We don't know, and won't until we're told.
To clarify: When I said, “I don’t understand the point you [Balt] made about the employee taking the signals out of service,” I meant I do not understand how he infers that from the article. I do understand how taking the signals out of service is done, if that was done.
The issue here is claiming what the article “seems to state” versus what would have merely been possible in the incident.
In the second paragraph, “Preliminary information” is ambiguous. Perhaps it means prior to the train arrival. But “Preliminary investigation” is used in the preceding paragraph, and it apparently refers to prior to knowing the full story.
In any case, the phrase, “After an employee responded to the location” says nothing about what the employee did while at the location.”
So when Balt says, “Article seems to state that the crossing protection had been taken out of service by a UTA signalman,” I don’t see anything in the article that seems to state that. It is just one possibility that is apparently allowed by the article.
Also there is nothing in the article that says or seems to say that the signalman deactivated the crossing protection, let alone doing so without coordinating it with the dispatcher; or that the dispatcher may have failed to pass it along to the crew; or that the crew may have ignored the information.
The bottom line is that the crossing signal failed to do its job, whoever was at fault. Fortunately no one was hurt.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
It seems that some Posters are 'out in the weeds' on this one. IMHO
To Balt's credit; Having recently retired and still pretty aware of the policies of his railroad's territory [ and most probably, generally, applicable across the board in the Industry]. I think his point was that the only railroad workers allowed to make adjustment or alteration in the operation of 'Crossing Protections' are those whose designated jobs are Signal Maintainers. (?) Therefore his point is it was a Signal Maintainer who made the changes in the non-performing highway-rail crossing in question that was involved in the collision of the truck and the UTA Train.
The morning news contained a video of the scene that was different from the onboard camera reported in the posted video. That video was taken from a point away from the crossing and clearly showed both autos and trucks moving across the UTA tracks. In fact, that same video showed another FedEx truck had just cleared the track[going away from the crossing] moments before the other FedEx truck was hit. It seemed fairly obvious there was an operatonal malfunction at the time of the collision with the train; based on that video.
I still stand by my first post: You can bet this one will wind up in some legal action for remedy. Seems as if UTA was sort of "hung out to dry" by the statement quoted in the OP's posted article.
{ Generally, Most companies, will try to avoid having an un attributed statement made at the seen of an accident; They have professional accident investigators who will go to the scene of an incident to investigate, and make sure 'RULES' will be followed, and also be their 'spokesperson' to make media statements for attribution. Which does not seem to be the case at this scene?}
I am pretty sure that that the signal maintainer received a report that the signals were false activating. So he went to the crossing to check, and found them to be false activated, but then they became unactivated as they should be with no train present. So he left the site. Then when the train arrived, the signals failed to activate.
The article seems to state this scenario. But we won't know for sure until the investigation conclusion is released.
Further information:
http://fox13now.com/2017/01/24/uta-frontrunner-crashes-into-fedex-truck/
I was quite surprised to see this video pop up on The Weather Channel about three hours after it happened. They are also a news channel at times. It hit the news quite fast. They showed it a number of times during the day and evening.
Of all the snow here in Buffalo NY this has never happned that the crossing gates malfuntioned due to the snow
EuclidBut we won't know for sure until the investigation conclusion is released.
No deaths, no injuries - no publiclly disclosed investigation results.
I share in your frustrations Balt. (my skin was crawling when I saw the video)
I have to wonder if some of the problem is also the difference between the common carrier railroad culture and the transit culture (rank amateurs IMHO). NO RAILROADER worth his or her salt would walk away from a defect like that until there was well defined protection against a known defect. FRA and RTD have collided here in Denver well before it got that tragic.
For those having trouble viewing the video of the incident, this link works on my computer and might work on yours.
https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2017/jan/25/passenger-train-in-utah-slams-into-truck-at-high-speed-video
There are two FED EX trucks in the video, Does any one know if the truck that the officer was following was struck in addition to the double bottom truck coming toward the camera? I would love to know what the driver said when he got out of his truck.
Electroliner 1935 There are two FED EX trucks in the video, Does any one know if the truck that the officer was following was struck in addition to the double bottom truck coming toward the camera? I would love to know what the driver said when he got out of his truck.
First: I do not think you could reproduce those words here.
Second: I would guess the next step would be to find his/her suitcase with some clean clothes to change into.
Had a co-worker/driver who was hit on the rear corner of his empty trailer in south Memphis by the City of N.O. at a crossing [ that had just activated as he was going over it ]. {Train was moving faster than the speed the crossing was set for}... His truck and trailer performed 3 flat spins in the road. WE (several of the driver's co-workers) had to tell the cops what happened...The driver was normally tongue-tied, and after this it took him hours to regain his composure.
Here is some interesting information that may not be in all versions of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2aUzFhHqBM
The video begins with the signals un-activated.
At 0:19, the train strikes the truck.
At 0:30, the train passes out of the video to the right.
At 0:49, the signals begin activation just as a person is seen opening the door the signal bungalow on the right and exiting the bungalow. The person immediately re-enters the bungalow, and within a few more seconds, the person emerges again.
At about 1:35, the person re-enters the bungalow, and the video shortly ends.
Therefore, it appears that the signal maintainer was in the signal bungalow with the door closed, and the signal un-activated, prior to, and during the collision.
All of this does not prove what caused the failure to activate, but it does lend a bit of context to the scenario. It seems to place the signal maintainer inside of the signal bungalow precisely when the failure to activate occurred. Then the maintainer exited the bungalow, saw the wreckage, and immediately went back into the bungalow, and immediately thereafter, the signals activated for the first time.
We'll know for sure when the appropriate authorities issue their reports.
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