ChuckCobleigh (8-19):
It is understood UP is rerouting some traffic out of both Los Angeles and West Colton Yard up the Coast Line to Eugene, Portland, and Seattle. Much of UP‘s Coast Line (Los Angeles-Bay Area, except the Metrolink portion) is Automatic Block Signals (ABS) only, and a mixture of medium (6000-feet) and short (3000-feet) sidings. The problem UP encountered a long time ago is that so many passenger-type trains use the line that an agreement or order is in place that UP trains cannot leave a switch locked in open position when entering or leaving a siding, as done elsewhere, like in the Midwest, etc., where no passenger or commuter trains share the tracks. Open switches are understood to be on warrants for those lines. But, it was too disruptive for passenger and commuter trains to slow down (as with yellow signals) and stop for open switches somewhere (“somewhere”) beyond a red signal. I have no idea how UP handles that under adverse reroute situations, if an extra crewmember rides a caboose, a roadway vehicle follows the train, etc. to realign switches. All that must be giving the operating planners ulcers, as well as the accountants.
Take care,
K.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
SFbrkmnSome westbound traffic was being tied down in sidings as far east as KS on Panhandle Sub.
Yeah, you can hold only so much at Barstow and Victorville, or Belen, etc.
On a related thought, how much UP traffic north out of LA is now using the Coast Route? Since it looks like the Palmdale cutoff will be out of service for a few more days, that route should pick up a little of the slack, as I would guess daytime movements through Soledad Canyon would be dicey because of Metrolink traffic.
Some westbound traffic was being tied down in sidings as far east as KS on Panhandle Sub. With low traffic Thursday, four Wellington crews deadheaded home together on the North Bay9. This was more like no train Thur instead of the normal no train Tue
K. P. Harrier Today, Friday, August 19, 2016, Amtrak No. 3 bypassed Cajon Pass and went via Mojave and Metrolink’s Soledad Canyon.
Today, Friday, August 19, 2016, Amtrak No. 3 bypassed Cajon Pass and went via Mojave and Metrolink’s Soledad Canyon.
Probably faster than wading through the BNSF backlog and easier than changing plans back to the standard route at this point. Just a guess.
BNSF slight update tonight to indicate that it will be a while before they clear the backlog. Also, I noticed earlier that I-15 north and south had been reopened.
On Tuesday, August 16th, 2016 at 1:45 p.m. Central Time, BNSF reported a track outage caused by wildfires impacting our Cajon Subdivision, which runs between San Bernardino and Barstow, California. This location impacts traffic to and from the Southern California On-Dock (SCOD), Los Angeles and San Bernardino facilities.Main Tracks 2 and 3 were both restored as of 7:50 p.m. Central Time on Wednesday, August 17th, 2016. Main Track 1 currently remains out of service. The estimated time for opening has not been determined. The wildfires continue to pose an ongoing threat, and with winds expected to increase later today, BNSF is working closely with fire officials to ensure safe operations through this area.BNSF will continue to provide you with additional information as it becomes available. While trains are moving again through the Cajon Pass, the 24 hour service outage has created a substantial backlog of traffic that will take time to clear. Customers may experience delays of 36 to 48 hours on shipments moving through this corridor.
If the image will post, there is one shot showing the roof of McD's on fire...
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This may take a little longer to fix ... Photos on: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-blue-cut-fire-20160816-snap-story.html
Looks like the important part of the golden arches is fine...
Depending on how "sterilizing" the fire was, expect major flooding in this area when the winter rains come.
BNSF now reporting two tracks open.
On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 7:28 p.m. Central Time, BNSF reported a track outage caused by wildfires impacting our Cajon Subdivision, which runs between San Bernardino and Barstow, California. This location impacts traffic to and from the Southern California On-Dock (SCOD), Los Angeles and San Bernardino facilities.Main Track 1 will remain out of service. Main Tracks 2 and 3 were both restored as of 5:50 p.m. PDT on Wednesday, August 17th, 2016. Continued recovery efforts will be subject to wildfire activity in the affected areas.BNSF will continue to provide you with additional information as it becomes available. Customers may experience delays of 36 to 48 hours on shipments moving through this corridor.
See news release here at TRAINS NEWS site for later info.
I saw an image (but don't remember where) of a railroad bridge that appeared to be of other than wood construction, but had settled significantly. It wasn't the one that burned along highway 101. There were hard hats in attendance. It was clear no trains would be crossing it in the immediate future.
There are images online of a burned McD's sign, and the Summit Inn has succumbed as well.
UP B&B certainly cannot catch a break. First the Brazos bridge and now this !
There are four tracks and four damaged bridges. Is it one bridge per track or are there track(s) that are usable?
At this point, I think it is a safe bet that not so many UP trucks as usual will be parked in the Tehachapi Fairfield Inn parking lot for a few days, at least when the smoke mostly clears.
Just a guess. Gonna be some busy folks in the pass for the next week or two. MC is right on the "stuff is on the way" comment, if past experience is any indicator.
A final thought is a suspicion that contingency plans for bridge losses are on the shelf and ready to go when needed. Just an idle thought from an engineering point of view.
A Source … and another Fire …
A source understands UP lost one bridge and BNSF lost three because of the fire.
Probably related, but another nearby fire started this afternoon in the Phelan area (pronounced FEE-lan and NOT the traditional FAY-len). K.P. envisions the two fires probably meeting each other tonight.
The above photo was shot in Pinon Hills in about the M.P. 442 area on UP’s ex-SP Palmdale Cutoff in Southern California.
In my reply to ChuckCobleigh earlier today, in the top photo, it appears ONLY two vertically slightly slanted I-beams held up the center part of that bridge. Cutting corners about 50 years ago is going to cost the bridge’s owner a nice some of money now.
The whole area remains closed, and may not reopen for a while. The fast moving fire was MORE OF A FIRE than has sunk in to most of us (or the Press) yet …
At this point it is not clear exactly what kinds of bridges that BNSF lost, but my sneaky suspicion is that they were old wooden ones. That sank down UP bridge has TWO spans while the two BNSF bridges in that Alray area had one span each. The explanation for that is Route 66 up till 1969 (when it was replaced by a rerouted I-15) was a four lane highway with a center cleared area with bridge piers. Old BNSF Bridges (AT&SF back then) were half-landfilled in, and just single spans were left. SP’s bridge was of a modern type; hence, leaving a second span was no problem. NOW, however, UP might ("might") just replace that two-span bridge with a single span too. K.P. will be all eyes on that one.
narig01 (8-17)
That is a good question. If McDonald’s didn’t make it maybe the CHP scale offices didn’t either. That should be one thing I will check whenever I can get out that way. But, here is another one! I wonder if the railroad security modules survived; you know, those floodlighted trailer-like buildings below I-15 and by the tracks at Cajon?
Catch you all later,
Assume the "treehouse' colony bit the dust as well ...Spent many a meal at that McDonalds when it was somewhat new.
Timber deck/ballast decking can get replaced in short order as long as the steel isn't hurt. Thankfully, per Santa Fe practice, the open deck structures are long gone as opposed to the BN practice which was never as aggressive. You can bet whatever is needed is already coming mui-pronto.
K. P. Harrier The fire area is basically my turf, but all roads into the area are presently closed off, including the I-15 Freeway. Below is an excellent link with photos (Press-Enterprise, pe.com), the first two involves railroading in the pass. The first one is believed to be at CP WALKER. http://www.pe.com/articles/brush-810732-tuesday-freeway.html Reports are sketchy at best, but it is questionable if the McDonalds fast food restaurant near Highway 138 and I-15 survived.
The fire area is basically my turf, but all roads into the area are presently closed off, including the I-15 Freeway.
Below is an excellent link with photos (Press-Enterprise, pe.com), the first two involves railroading in the pass. The first one is believed to be at CP WALKER.
http://www.pe.com/articles/brush-810732-tuesday-freeway.html
Reports are sketchy at best, but it is questionable if the McDonalds fast food restaurant near Highway 138 and I-15 survived.
Here's a map from earlier today, before they got even 4% containment:
caldreamer As far as I kno wthere are only 2 ways for trains to get into the LA area. Fron the east over Cajon pass, which is now blocked. Or over the Donner summit and through the San Juaquin Valley over the Tehechapei pass. BNSF and UP could reroute trains this way to keep traffic moving. Given it is the long way around, but atleast traffic will get into and out of LA.
As far as I kno wthere are only 2 ways for trains to get into the LA area. Fron the east over Cajon pass, which is now blocked. Or over the Donner summit and through the San Juaquin Valley over the Tehechapei pass. BNSF and UP could reroute trains this way to keep traffic moving. Given it is the long way around, but atleast traffic will get into and out of LA.
One possibility that could involve a ballet involving an extra set of engines and crew that could be done by BNSF would be to come west from Barstow to Mohave, cut the engines from the front (north end) of the train and then put the extra set on the rear (south end) and then go into LA on the Metrolink Palmdale route. That would no doubt involve a pilot engineer qualified on that stretch, which is an additional complication.
My educated guess is that the normal level of BNSF traffic Barstow/Bakersfield probably would make that a real squeeze and not worth it for the two days or so of probable delays they are otherwise looking at.
Another option for BNSF could be diverting from the TransCon over the Peavine to Phoenix and then down to the Sunset Route and back into SoCal.
Or the easy thing to do: hold the trains until the smoke clears.
Sure wish I had the Maalox rights in Fort Worth right now.
beaulieuFinally the bridge that burned is on the UP line up to Summit.
The picture linked to looks like a part of "Big Thunder Mountain" at Disneyland.
BNSF is detouring via UP's Sunset Route. UP's ZLADV went via Saugus and then will go via Donner. UP is planning on three trains up the Coast Line today. Finally the bridge that burned is on the UP line up to Summit.
Destroyed UP Bridge
Johnny
K.P., good to see that you are still safe. Pray for the good work and safety of the firefighters.
Here is a Twitter link of some pics and video. One of those shows a close up of the burned RR bridge. Never thought it could get that hot!
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azrail (8-17):
Amtrak No. 3 was rerouted today, and traveled from Barstow to Mojave, then south to Los Angeles via Soledad Canyon and Sylmar. It had a pilot. BNSF might do that too for a superhot train, and UP from the LA&SL might too, but there are too many Metrolink’s closer to Los Angeles that makes a widespread reroute effort impractical.
David1005 (8-17):
That “long steel single track bridge” that bucked (early-on in the picture gallery that Northwest linked for us) was likely shot from the closed I-15 or its embankment. That bridge is that background one in the first photo of my earlier post.
ChuckCobleigh (8-17)
I tend to agree … Cat!
Take care all,
azrail I have heard that the famed Summit Inn has burned down. The question is, how is BNSF rerouting its trains in and out of LA with the pass closed?
I have heard that the famed Summit Inn has burned down.
The question is, how is BNSF rerouting its trains in and out of LA with the pass closed?
I don't think that there is a suitable reroute strategy. For the moment, it sounds like they are holding trains.
From the BNSF website:
BNSF is currently experiencing an operational impact due to track outage, caused by wildfires in Cajon, California. Cajon, California is approximately 20 miles Northwest of San Bernardino, California. This location impacts traffic to and from the Southern California On-Dock (SCOD), Los Angeles, and San Bernardino facilities. The estimated time for opening for the main tracks has not been determined.BNSF will continue to provide you with additional information as it becomes available. Customers may experience delays of 36 to 48 hours on shipments moving through this corridor.
K. P. HarrierLucky dog (or is it a cat?)
One of the pictures in the LA Times picture gallery mentioned in Northwest's post would suggest cat.
This morning fire map shows fire has burned from Keenbrook to east of Summit.
http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/photos/CABDF/2016-08-16-1443-Bluecut-Fire/picts/2016_08_17-08.22.45.133-CDT.pdf
Photo shows long steel single track bridge buckled from heat. Photo may have been taken from 138.
See picture gallery down the page:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-blue-cut-fire-20160816-snap-story.html
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