Would like to flip the title.. " BNSF engines on foreign lines " On The CSX A&WP sub south of Atlanta there will be as many as 28 - 30 BNSF units a day on the BNSF intermodal haulage trains on CSX. CSX manifests only have 2 locos.
Only very ocasionaly will there be a csx unit on a BNSF train. BNSF has 4 of their locos on each intermodal. Three always running with 4th in standby ? The three seem to be needed on the CSX Lineville sub ( LaGrange - Birmingham ) to meet schedule.
Deggesty rockymidlandrr BaltACD Paul_D_North_Jr Mookie I thought NS didn't have DPUs ? Or maybe just a few for run-throughs like this ? I don't believe they're used a lot on the home rails - correct, or not ? - Paul North. Can't speak to NS directly, CSX's last several orders of new locomotives have been equipped for DPU. Selectively CSX has been training crews on specific territories on the use of DPU. CSX has had to install a number of 'radio repeaters' to permit the use of DPU's as they require reliable communications between the control unit and the distributed units and many of the territories where DPU is intended to be used do not have the proper 'line of sight' to create reliable end to end radio communications. I suspect NS may be undertaking the same process. I wish that were the case with CSX. My subdivision has been running DP 5-6 years now, long before it started hitting the mainlines (I work on a coal loading subdivision with a top speed of 25mph that feeds the mainline). They were going to do things right with having classes for all Engineers to be trained on it, had an Engineer already selected to teach these classes and sent him to learn directly from GE. Then Jacksonville or Atlanta stepped in, they sent the Engineer back to running trains, cancelled all classes, started running DP trains on the mainlines and figure it out on your own or we'll charge you for delaying a train. The cancellation of the classes strikes me as being penny wise and pound foolish. Was any instruction as to handling DP distributed?
rockymidlandrr BaltACD Paul_D_North_Jr Mookie I thought NS didn't have DPUs ? Or maybe just a few for run-throughs like this ? I don't believe they're used a lot on the home rails - correct, or not ? - Paul North. Can't speak to NS directly, CSX's last several orders of new locomotives have been equipped for DPU. Selectively CSX has been training crews on specific territories on the use of DPU. CSX has had to install a number of 'radio repeaters' to permit the use of DPU's as they require reliable communications between the control unit and the distributed units and many of the territories where DPU is intended to be used do not have the proper 'line of sight' to create reliable end to end radio communications. I suspect NS may be undertaking the same process. I wish that were the case with CSX. My subdivision has been running DP 5-6 years now, long before it started hitting the mainlines (I work on a coal loading subdivision with a top speed of 25mph that feeds the mainline). They were going to do things right with having classes for all Engineers to be trained on it, had an Engineer already selected to teach these classes and sent him to learn directly from GE. Then Jacksonville or Atlanta stepped in, they sent the Engineer back to running trains, cancelled all classes, started running DP trains on the mainlines and figure it out on your own or we'll charge you for delaying a train.
BaltACD Paul_D_North_Jr Mookie I thought NS didn't have DPUs ? Or maybe just a few for run-throughs like this ? I don't believe they're used a lot on the home rails - correct, or not ? - Paul North. Can't speak to NS directly, CSX's last several orders of new locomotives have been equipped for DPU. Selectively CSX has been training crews on specific territories on the use of DPU. CSX has had to install a number of 'radio repeaters' to permit the use of DPU's as they require reliable communications between the control unit and the distributed units and many of the territories where DPU is intended to be used do not have the proper 'line of sight' to create reliable end to end radio communications. I suspect NS may be undertaking the same process.
Paul_D_North_Jr Mookie I thought NS didn't have DPUs ? Or maybe just a few for run-throughs like this ? I don't believe they're used a lot on the home rails - correct, or not ? - Paul North.
Mookie
I thought NS didn't have DPUs ? Or maybe just a few for run-throughs like this ? I don't believe they're used a lot on the home rails - correct, or not ?
- Paul North.
Can't speak to NS directly, CSX's last several orders of new locomotives have been equipped for DPU. Selectively CSX has been training crews on specific territories on the use of DPU. CSX has had to install a number of 'radio repeaters' to permit the use of DPU's as they require reliable communications between the control unit and the distributed units and many of the territories where DPU is intended to be used do not have the proper 'line of sight' to create reliable end to end radio communications. I suspect NS may be undertaking the same process.
I wish that were the case with CSX. My subdivision has been running DP 5-6 years now, long before it started hitting the mainlines (I work on a coal loading subdivision with a top speed of 25mph that feeds the mainline). They were going to do things right with having classes for all Engineers to be trained on it, had an Engineer already selected to teach these classes and sent him to learn directly from GE. Then Jacksonville or Atlanta stepped in, they sent the Engineer back to running trains, cancelled all classes, started running DP trains on the mainlines and figure it out on your own or we'll charge you for delaying a train.
The cancellation of the classes strikes me as being penny wise and pound foolish. Was any instruction as to handling DP distributed?
Nope!! It had to be learned amongst ourselves without any company help. There are still plenty of folks on the mainline trains who still do not know how to set it up or knock it down if they needed to.
tree68 jeffhergert The attendent call button is marked with a telephone hand set. I've tried using that on our Polar Express trips. Have yet to have anyone show up with hot chocolate and a cookie...
jeffhergert The attendent call button is marked with a telephone hand set.
I've tried using that on our Polar Express trips. Have yet to have anyone show up with hot chocolate and a cookie...
UP #1988 Katy and 1982 MoPac were open for public inspection and had UP crews on board to answer questions. The 'Attendant Call' button was noticed, and the UP Engineer in the cab, responded that pushing it would bring the on-board stewardess with coffee and catering. The ladies that had asked that question seemed taken aback, but responded; how nice of the railroad to provide that service for the crews....
Johnny
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Having to try to deal with computers and modern cars, I have come to the conclusion that I'm just iconically illiterate.
I still laugh when I think about the first time about 50 years ago that I saw the symbol for handicapped accessible (the stick figure in a wheelchair). I thought it meant restroom.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
jeffhergertThe attendent call button is marked with a telephone hand set.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
OvermodPresumably the 'fairly standard' depiction of a lit headlight, which is kinda sorta the shape of a parabolic sealed-beam lamp with little dashes for the rays coming out of it. Presumably this has a little picture with the appropriate end of the engine next to it, probably with an arrow (or in some of the newer 'semantic' representations, a little pointing-finger hand) to a little dot that shows where the physical light is supposed to be installed.
It's the jellyfish symbol. You probably have at least one in your car. My truck warns of single blue jellyfish and double green ones.
Jellyfish attacking the front of the engine from a direct, head on course for forward headlights, attacking rear for rear ones. Then another knob has jellyfish launching an assault on the engine from the ground for ditchlights (and again a rear assault for those lights).
OvermodI don't know what GE's 'multicultural' representation of the control that gets lights to blink is going to be. I'd expect two little circles on a picture of the front of the engine, where the ditch lights are, one dark and the other showing those little dashes. And that opens up the question whether you 'ought' to have one control that puts the ditch lights on and another that modifies the blinking once they are on, or whether you have one control that puts the ditch lights on steady and another that puts them on blinking, each independent of the other
I believe it is: ((O)) for flashing and ☼ for steady if I remember right.
Most of our engines, you have a switch to turn the ditchlights off, steady on (if the headlight is on bright) or flashing (headlight doesn't matter), and another switch to determine long hood or short hood end. Also a button to activate the flashing for 30 seconds. Of course the horn also activates 30 seconds of flashing no matter the setting.
Some older engines used the reverser to determine which end the ditchlights activate.
Keep in mind that a lot of this is railroad-specific and even locomotive model specific. Some roads/engines the ditchlights come on with the bright headlights automatically. Others have complete independent control of the ditchlights. So you can leave the headlight on dim and keep the ditchlights on.
It's really not a big deal. Most of the switches are in the standard places, and labels aren't even needed. It's just amusing.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
The attendent call button is marked with a telephone hand set.
jeffhergertI imagine with the growth of cell/smart phones, eventually we'll have people who won't recognize the symbol.
The "Save" icon on many menu bars is a 3.5" floppy disc. When was the last time you used a 3.5" floppy disc?
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Overmod Paul_D_North_Jr That's pretty funny ! Would like to see what that looks like sometime. Presumably the 'fairly standard' depiction of a lit headlight, which is kinda sorta the shape of a parabolic sealed-beam lamp with little dashes for the rays coming out of it. Presumably this has a little picture with the appropriate end of the engine next to it, probably with an arrow (or in some of the newer 'semantic' representations, a little pointing-finger hand) to a little dot that shows where the physical light is supposed to be installed. I don't know what GE's 'multicultural' representation of the control that gets lights to blink is going to be. I'd expect two little circles on a picture of the front of the engine, where the ditch lights are, one dark and the other showing those little dashes. And that opens up the question whether you 'ought' to have one control that puts the ditch lights on and another that modifies the blinking once they are on, or whether you have one control that puts the ditch lights on steady and another that puts them on blinking, each independent of the other. And figuring this out from pictograms of the usual Euro type, without recourse to a manual that often seems to have been written by an ambitious ESL student, is not likely to be as simple as the bright folks who designed the semantics probably think it is. I have maintained for many years that it does little harm to put actual English labels under the pictograms to explain what they mean. Or at least provide some sort of explanation that an operator understands and can access, like the little pull-out reference slip on Olivetti ET typewriters. OCD graphic designers don't much care for this, apparently thinking that if only you adopt their way of looking at the world you won't have any trouble comprehending their visual syntax. IBM design engineers had much the same attitude designing error-code systems and 'MAPs' for minicomputers. BTW -- what was the Spanish notation on the incomprehensible switch? I can try translating it...
Paul_D_North_Jr That's pretty funny ! Would like to see what that looks like sometime.
Presumably the 'fairly standard' depiction of a lit headlight, which is kinda sorta the shape of a parabolic sealed-beam lamp with little dashes for the rays coming out of it. Presumably this has a little picture with the appropriate end of the engine next to it, probably with an arrow (or in some of the newer 'semantic' representations, a little pointing-finger hand) to a little dot that shows where the physical light is supposed to be installed.
I don't know what GE's 'multicultural' representation of the control that gets lights to blink is going to be. I'd expect two little circles on a picture of the front of the engine, where the ditch lights are, one dark and the other showing those little dashes. And that opens up the question whether you 'ought' to have one control that puts the ditch lights on and another that modifies the blinking once they are on, or whether you have one control that puts the ditch lights on steady and another that puts them on blinking, each independent of the other. And figuring this out from pictograms of the usual Euro type, without recourse to a manual that often seems to have been written by an ambitious ESL student, is not likely to be as simple as the bright folks who designed the semantics probably think it is.
I have maintained for many years that it does little harm to put actual English labels under the pictograms to explain what they mean. Or at least provide some sort of explanation that an operator understands and can access, like the little pull-out reference slip on Olivetti ET typewriters. OCD graphic designers don't much care for this, apparently thinking that if only you adopt their way of looking at the world you won't have any trouble comprehending their visual syntax. IBM design engineers had much the same attitude designing error-code systems and 'MAPs' for minicomputers.
BTW -- what was the Spanish notation on the incomprehensible switch? I can try translating it...
As to the ditch light flashing switch, ours (with the exception of some old SP engines) don't flash. The attendent call button is marked with a telephone hand set. I imagine with the growth of cell/smart phones, eventually we'll have people who won't recognize the symbol.
Jeff
During one of my trips up to the Horseshoe Curve I saw and photographed a UP engine on an eastbound train. I also see a lot of foreign power on the csx running on trains through town. Foreign power is a common practice these days.
Paul_D_North_JrThat's pretty funny ! Would like to see what that looks like sometime.
I suppose that's better than an old locomotive, after several cab repaints, in which a switch might be labelled simply "D" (for ditch lights)...
Most of our coaches are from Canadian sources and include plenty of bi-lingual labels. There's some French evident in our RS18u's, but it's not universal.
Paul_D_North_Jr zugmann . . . Takes a couple seconds to figure out which jellyfish attacking the engine switches I need to turn on to get the correct headlights/ditchlights. . . . That's pretty funny ! Would like to see what that looks like sometime. - Paul North.
zugmann . . . Takes a couple seconds to figure out which jellyfish attacking the engine switches I need to turn on to get the correct headlights/ditchlights. . . .
That's pretty funny ! Would like to see what that looks like sometime.
Zug makes it sound like a Pac-Man game, almost. It does sound like some recent automobiles and their control labeling, designed to inspire a "what the heck is that supposed to mean?" response, I guess. Makes driving some rental cars a real adventure.
zugmann jeffhergert There was one that was in Spanish only and not in a standard location. I have no idea what it was for, only that it was off. Jeff Can't be any worse than the pict-o-gram knobs and buttons on the newest Aces and Gevos. Takes a couple seconds to figure out which jellyfish attacking the engine switches I need to turn on to get the correct headlights/ditchlights. And while figuring that out, the engine starts screaming at you because you dare had the reverser thrown without throttling up after 0.000000003 seconds! An eternity by biblical proportions!
jeffhergert There was one that was in Spanish only and not in a standard location. I have no idea what it was for, only that it was off. Jeff
Can't be any worse than the pict-o-gram knobs and buttons on the newest Aces and Gevos. Takes a couple seconds to figure out which jellyfish attacking the engine switches I need to turn on to get the correct headlights/ditchlights.
And while figuring that out, the engine starts screaming at you because you dare had the reverser thrown without throttling up after 0.000000003 seconds! An eternity by biblical proportions!
Then there's the ones that start ringing the alarm bell because the reverser isn't centered, but won't give you, or recognize if it does, the alarm silence button on the computer screen.
The worst was a CP engine that would immediately shut down after centering the reverser. If you didn't, the alerter would need acknowledging every 15 seconds. Even when the independent was applied, which usually suspends the alerter feature. Did I mention it was during the winter with temps around 0 and with the shut down of the engine, the heat also shuts off? It was a long 3 hours stopped at a broken rail.
Speaking of Canadian engines, I think all the CN engines I've been on are marked in French and English. I'm not so sure of CP engines, but I may be seeing some only used in the US. Those that see service in Canada are easy to tell. They have either a hot plate and tea kettle or a microwave oven, I've seen a few with both. They also have a stretcher for emergencies.
I know the CN has freight cars with the English spelling of Canadian National on one side, the French spelling on the other.
Not quite germane, but: when my wife and I were traveling across Canada on VIA, we noticed that in Quebec, the announcements were first in French and then in English; in the other provinces, they were first in English and then in French.
samfp1943 My question is: knowing the legislated need for the Canadians to "have to" use both French and English on their freight cars, does that practice also find itslf used on the Cab Controls of their locomotives?
It was certainly true of the safety control systems in the F40s -- I was looking at a picture of the Faiveley bearing-overheat panel and it's fully bilingual. With, I thought, a reasonable attempt to put 'French first' as indicated by Bill 101.
I'd expect non-pictogram controls to be bilingually labeled.
Sam: CP & CN both have been thru here. CN - I have 40 numbers and CP about 1/2 of that. So they are at least in the area.
jeffhergert As of a few years and upgrades ago, DP units no longer have to be "family." Foreign line engines can now be recognized by the home railroad's engines for DP purposes. Today, I had a couple of really foreign engines, two Ferromex engines. Consecutively numbered to boot and they weren't new ones being delivered. They came up north on an empty grain train. I only got to run them around the wye to get the UP engine on the front of the consist for cab signal/ATC purposes. (Then I find the UP engine once started has a fountain of water leaking from the radiator site glass and the bottom inlet valve is broken. The diesel house was able to fix it so the leak was stopped.) Most things were marked in both English and Spanish. A few only in English, a few only in Spanish. Luckily those in Spanish only were on switches that are standard to all models no matter the owner. There was one that was in Spanish only and not in a standard location. I have no idea what it was for, only that it was off. Jeff
As of a few years and upgrades ago, DP units no longer have to be "family." Foreign line engines can now be recognized by the home railroad's engines for DP purposes.
Today, I had a couple of really foreign engines, two Ferromex engines. Consecutively numbered to boot and they weren't new ones being delivered. They came up north on an empty grain train. I only got to run them around the wye to get the UP engine on the front of the consist for cab signal/ATC purposes. (Then I find the UP engine once started has a fountain of water leaking from the radiator site glass and the bottom inlet valve is broken. The diesel house was able to fix it so the leak was stopped.) Most things were marked in both English and Spanish. A few only in English, a few only in Spanish. Luckily those in Spanish only were on switches that are standard to all models no matter the owner. There was one that was in Spanish only and not in a standard location. I have no idea what it was for, only that it was off.
Here in Soth Central Ks. we will see occasionally, Canadian Pacific units on some BNSF trains. Those generally run at least, second out, on head ends.
My question is: knowing the legislated need for the Canadians to "have to" use both French and English on their freight cars, does that practice also find itslf used on the Cab Controls of their locomotives?
I have not seen any Canadian National locomotives out here, as yet. Union Pacific power is usually running after the BNSF head end power. There is a 'wind turbine blade' train that seems to cycle through this area that operates with all UPR Power, most of the times I've seen it. The NS Road Railer Trains that operated through here always seemed to have NS power, before they were discontiued between Alliance Tx and KC.
Try getting on Susquehanna 142 - Chinese...
jeffhergertThere was one that was in Spanish only and not in a standard location. I have no idea what it was for, only that it was off. Jeff
Jeff - we used to see Ferromex every so often - & always on a grain train.
But it has been awhile and either they are running at really odd times, or just not coming thru here any more.
But another question: We keep seeing a container train - mostly JB Hunt, but with some other names sprinkled in - also UPS. Is this the "infamous" JB Hunt train that people talk about or is that a train that is only Hunt?
NS DPUs - Seems like there are a few, based on some limited research this morning:
At least all 20 of the "Heritage" units - both EMD SD70ACe and GE ES44AC, per:
http://www.nsdash9.com/heritage.html
http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/8000.html
Also the other SD70ACe's, ES40DC's, and some C40-9W's:
http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/1000.html
http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/7500.html
Some (18 ?) of the D9-44CW's: http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/8889.html
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,2952015
Some other instances:
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/02/02-ns-long-train
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,3609492
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,2367665
And! Once again I learned something!
I do know that every time we see a coal train thru here it has a DPU or 2. Beyond that...
Thank you, gentlemen!
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