I've not seen any recent updates on the Emporia sub 2MT project although a poster elsewhere said the Gladstone-Bazar new MT was due to be cut in 'soon'.
Over on the northern transcon BNSF and its contractors worked through December; the bridge superstructure is being finished. The lake drawdown in winter may help construction but recent PNW storms may have had an impact. Perhaps our occasional local poster BK has more info.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
The first 'Cars' movie is a ode to what happens when a US route gets replaced by a Interstate and how small towns that dpended on the US route get affected.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Shadow the Cats owner Hell can you imagine trying to build from scratch the interstate highway system today. The nimby and banana crowds would have it tied up in court for decades.
Hell can you imagine trying to build from scratch the interstate highway system today. The nimby and banana crowds would have it tied up in court for decades.
There is a very large debate ongoing about how to best handle I-81 through downtown Syracuse. The road is elevated now - there is talk of removing that, sending through traffic around the existing bypass, and going to surface streets along the route.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
When I lived in Sacramento in the late 80s and early 90s, the airport was relatively lightly used. It was northwest of town in the country, somewhat along the Sacramento River. With the prevailing wind, traffic would take off and land primarily on a north-south axis, flying straight over the meandering river. As the area grew, houses sprang up on both sides of the river - expensive houses. Real estate with dockable riverfront was highly coveted. The occasional overflight of a regional airline aircraft was a mild nuisance and living on the river was pleasant.
Then Southwest Airlines came to town and decided to make Sacramento a somewhat regional hub of sorts. Tan-and-orange-liveried 737s were the largest planes in and out of SMF and the flight frequency was way up. Many of the Southwest planes were not the turbofan model but the original 737-200 model, so the roar was much louder than the whine of today's turbofan-equipped models.
Needless to say, all heck broke lose with wealthy river-front dwellers demanding to shut down and move the airport, etc. It didn't matter that the airport was there first and they bought land and built their homes under the flight path. They did not want those planes nearby.
They did not carry the day, but there was a lot of sturm und drang. Not in their backyard.
(38.6930772, -121.5873071)
https://www.angelfire.com/dc/douglasjets/Southwest200photos.html
Shadow the Cats ownerHell can you imagine trying to build from scratch the interstate highway system today. The nimby and banana crowds would have it tied up in court for decades.
Did you ever stop to think that the manner in which the Interstate system was rammed through certain locations is the prime reason for the creation of the nimby, banana movements. For every action there is a reaction.
Mike, thanks for keeping us (me) informed about the Southern Transcon.
I was a Party Chief (Transitman) when Santa Fe constructed the Williams - Crookton line change in 1959-1960. Things were much different then. We were able to build this 44 mile line through the basalt, limestone and volcanic rock starting 9-01-1959 and running the first train (#19 The Chief) 12-19-1960.
The contractor, Morrison-Knudsen, worked two nine hour shifts six day a week and the equipment was serviced or moved to the next site during the six hours that the equipment operators were resting.
Today you could not even determine how many permits might be required in the 15 months we took to complete this relocation.
In lieu of recent linkable photos and other details, here is a BNSF PR piece on the Emporia sub second MT project: http://www.bnsf.com/news-media/railtalk/service/emporia.html
From posts on The Other railfan site progress is happening on the Ellinor-Bazar segment and may be close to completion. Likewise ROW work between Aikman and Matfield Green is ongoing; the new bridge over KS-177 would be a good measure.
Contractor work on other segments should be starting but I've yet to find any details.
Just discovered the BNSF website for the Sandpoint Junction Connector project:
https://keepsandpointrolling.com/
Some other good construction photos, including the new bridge over Bridge Street.
Also keeping my 'eyes open' for extension of Boyer siding, as today's longer trains need a place to stage for the current single track bottleneck over the lake. When the new bridge is complete the old bridge will be refurbished, thus extending the bottleneck a little longer.
Bruce Kelly Here are some fairly recent views of the progress at Sandpoint. There will also be a smaller bridge added where the line crosses the mouth of Sand Creek. https://railpictures.net/photo/768657/ https://railpictures.net/photo/768653/ https://railpictures.net/photo/768569/ Very interesting photos. BNSF is using for the most part same number of 6 pilings per bent but they appear larger diameter. Noted that the spans are going to be longer but all do not seem to be the same length ? Any way probably will have a much higher cooper rating ?
Here are some fairly recent views of the progress at Sandpoint. There will also be a smaller bridge added where the line crosses the mouth of Sand Creek.
https://railpictures.net/photo/768657/
https://railpictures.net/photo/768653/
https://railpictures.net/photo/768569/
Very interesting photos. BNSF is using for the most part same number of 6 pilings per bent but they appear larger diameter. Noted that the spans are going to be longer but all do not seem to be the same length ? Any way probably will have a much higher cooper rating ?
Shadow the Cats owner My hubby and I ran into a couple friends of ours yesterday. One of them is a MOW worker for the BNSF. He has been told after the bridge in Sandpoint ID is built I guess that is their current big project then they have 2 projects here in the Midwest. 1st off is double tracking the Missouri River crossing. The next one is replacing the Mississippi river crossing at Fort Madison with something that may not even have to be opened for barge traffic. From looking at videos of that bridge I do not see how they could do it short of realignment of the mainline into and out of Fort Madison.
My hubby and I ran into a couple friends of ours yesterday. One of them is a MOW worker for the BNSF. He has been told after the bridge in Sandpoint ID is built I guess that is their current big project then they have 2 projects here in the Midwest. 1st off is double tracking the Missouri River crossing. The next one is replacing the Mississippi river crossing at Fort Madison with something that may not even have to be opened for barge traffic. From looking at videos of that bridge I do not see how they could do it short of realignment of the mainline into and out of Fort Madison.
I always wondered if BNSF would eventually replace the swing span at Ft. Madison with a fixed span.
Shadow the Cats owner From looking at videos of that bridge I do not see how they could do it short of realignment of the mainline into and out of Fort Madison. Add
Having been there, and actually walking out onto the swing span pier supports, I am suggesting that the current swingspan passage is much nearer to Fort Madison than is necessary. If the proposed new higher bridge, without a movable passage way, was higher nearer to the Illinois side then the higher elevation could be achieved by raising the gradient, for the most part, in Illinois where there is little development. Yes, there would likely be some additional eastward gradient but it could be achieved mostly on the new bridge, and minimal in the City of Fort Madison. And no, I am not a bridge engineer, just an old surveyor type.
It sure is an interesting construction. From the west it appears the bridge is hung right off the bluff, while from the east there is a lengthy and very large fill over the flood plain ramping up to the height of the bluff.
I am always amazed at the ingenuity, expertise and intelligence exhibited by the engineers from hundreds of years ago who designed and constructed these amazing structures without the benefit of computers, Autocad, hydraulic cranes and other modern tools and equipment.
kgbw49One single track gap on the Southern Transcon that it would be interesting to watch them close is getting a second bridge over the Missouri River at Sibley, MO. That will be a big dollar project on the dollar scale of double tracking Abo Canyon.
The Sibley bridge is a complex issue that has grown due to UP trackage rights but is not as busy as, for example, the Gallup Sub.
At one time Santa Fe had a gauntlant track arrangement on this bridge but gave it up more than 70 years ago. Perhaps infrastructure funds will be allocated here; but first the Feds must approve any design over the Missouri River
It would appear that one major tunnel maintenance headache that is common in many northern tunnels in less-arid regions is the impact of water.
In other locales, there is ground water in the strata above a tunnel that will want to seep in to the tunnel. There then is the freeze-thaw cycle of more northern climates that can then play havoc with a tunnel and all that water that wants to seep in.
It appears that with this Seligman Tunnel, the groundwater factor and its negative impact on a tunnel is not in play, or at least greatly minimized by the desert climate. Since they can fit doublestacks through the bore on both tracks at the same time, and probably have minimal maintenance issues, BNSF can employ their capital to other projects.
One single track gap on the Southern Transcon that it would be interesting to watch them close is getting a second bridge over the Missouri River at Sibley, MO. That will be a big dollar project on the dollar scale of double tracking Abo Canyon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt9IkA_VMqc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFhjsfcnxSw
PNWRMNM SD60MAC9500 Yes clearance isn't an issue. Though being a short tunnel at approx 400' in length figure daylight it and get rid of another maintenance item. What is the maintenance cost per year? What is the capital investment to daylight? What is the return on investment? Does it meet the BNSF's hurdle rate? Are there other projects that return more? If so fund them first! That is the financial way to say if it aint broke dont fix it. Mac
SD60MAC9500 Yes clearance isn't an issue. Though being a short tunnel at approx 400' in length figure daylight it and get rid of another maintenance item.
What is the maintenance cost per year? What is the capital investment to daylight? What is the return on investment? Does it meet the BNSF's hurdle rate? Are there other projects that return more? If so fund them first!
That is the financial way to say if it aint broke dont fix it.
Mac
You are right. I also imagine geology plays a role as well in determining the feasibility of removal or not.
SD60MAC9500Yes clearance isn't an issue. Though being a short tunnel at approx 400' in length figure daylight it and get rid of another maintenance item.
MikeF90 SD60MAC9500 While we're talking about potential works to the ST. Any plans to daylight Nelson Tunnel on the Seligman Sub? Not sure why they would need to. This video shows double stacks rolling safely through it:
SD60MAC9500 While we're talking about potential works to the ST. Any plans to daylight Nelson Tunnel on the Seligman Sub?
Not sure why they would need to. This video shows double stacks rolling safely through it:
Yes clearance isn't an issue. Though being a short tunnel at approx 400' in length figure daylight it and get rid of another maintenance item.
Only reason to do it on purpose would be to add a 3rd track, but they may just do a bypass like Tehachapi.
SD60MAC9500While we're talking about potential works to the ST. Any plans to daylight Nelson Tunnel on the Seligman Sub?
While we're talking about potential works to the ST. Any plans to daylight Nelson Tunnel on the Seligman Sub?
[quote user="diningcar"]
One would think if they had planned on eliminating the natural crossover they would not have needed the Truxton project.
I suggest that the two have minimal relationship. They are more than 300 miles apart. After I originally had other ideas, I believe the Truxton Flyover was created to eliminate gradient issues for eastward trains departing Needles. There was a gradual climb toward Kingman using the 1920's south track construction and this gradual climb continued to Truxton. From Truxton the south track on toward the Yampai summit had a more adverse grade. By creating the Flyover to the lesser north track grade the need for locomotive power deparing Needles would permit the trains to make the run all the way to Belen where power could be added or subtracted.
"...Shorter version: I suggest with the cost of new locomotives, and the desire to maintain speed up to 70 mph for designated trains, BNSF was looking for a way to preplan the power needed between Needles (perhaps Barstow) and Belen..."
[ highlighted quote per dc.]
rdamon At Barstow they may be crossed over as they leave. There are 50 MPH xovers at many locations but leaving yards at crew change locations Barstow, Needles, Winslow and Belen creates options where trains must stop. MikeF90 rdamon One would think if they had planned on eliminating the natural crossover they would not have needed the Truxton project. Just so there is no confusion, the Frost flyover was built to improve access for westbounds to main #3, the original steep 3% grade MT west from Summit. Now that the third track has been built main #3 may be used a little less, but .... traffic conflict happens. So with Truxton, can we assume that Westbounds will now be left hand running when they enter the Cajon Sub? Guess I am confused why they would add a flyover then take one out .. :)
At Barstow they may be crossed over as they leave. There are 50 MPH xovers at many locations but leaving yards at crew change locations Barstow, Needles, Winslow and Belen creates options where trains must stop.
MikeF90 rdamon One would think if they had planned on eliminating the natural crossover they would not have needed the Truxton project. Just so there is no confusion, the Frost flyover was built to improve access for westbounds to main #3, the original steep 3% grade MT west from Summit. Now that the third track has been built main #3 may be used a little less, but .... traffic conflict happens.
rdamon One would think if they had planned on eliminating the natural crossover they would not have needed the Truxton project.
Just so there is no confusion, the Frost flyover was built to improve access for westbounds to main #3, the original steep 3% grade MT west from Summit. Now that the third track has been built main #3 may be used a little less, but .... traffic conflict happens.
So with Truxton, can we assume that Westbounds will now be left hand running when they enter the Cajon Sub?
Guess I am confused why they would add a flyover then take one out .. :)
rdamonOne would think if they had planned on eliminating the natural crossover they would not have needed the Truxton project.
Shorter version: I suggest with the cost of new locomotives, and the desire to maintain speed up to 70 mph for designated trains, BNSF was looking for a way to preplan the power needed between Needles (perhaps Barstow) and Belen.
kgbw49That would then bring conjecture as to whether they replace it with a flyover similar to the one in Arizona or whether they use crossovers.
IMO permitting or land acquisition wouldn't be too bad in SB county high desert. Flyover much closer to Barstow yard, terrain looks promising, hmm. Future third track, ehh we'll see. Much lower cost of movable frog high speed crossovers for the win . Of course I could be wrong - justification for the Truxton flyover is still baffling.
On another cost saving speculation, Mulvane KS area trackage looks like the result of decades of false starts and perhaps wierd internal politics. After adding a second track east of CP East Jct, five CPs could be replaced by two high speed turnouts where the Emporia sub north track crosses the Ark City sub. Or maybe a flyover .....
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