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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, May 20, 2016 7:16 AM

And of course we must include the the United States Navy's first aircraft carrier, USS Langley (CV-1, AV-3), which was rebuilt from the collier USS Jupiter (AC-3).

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, May 19, 2016 3:37 PM

And, there was Collier's Magazine, which was NOT published for the coal-mining industry.

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, May 19, 2016 3:23 PM

And another set of Collyer Brothers.

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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, May 19, 2016 1:23 PM

Also there was a famous Collyer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAod169FADM&t=20m50s

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, May 19, 2016 7:57 AM

And, a collier is also a ship that is used to carry coal.

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Posted by schlimm on Thursday, May 19, 2016 7:42 AM

wjstix

 

 
Cotton Belt MP104
This “story” (Roman chariot to Thiokol boosters) I had seen before, but like the tomikawaTT explanation. What concerned me was, what is a colliery? As the “mine cart gauge” would HINT at what a colliery is ……I had to look it up to see: a coal mine and the buildings and equipment associated with it……why “don’t da word got an “A” in it”????....is coal called COLL in England?
 

 

 
According to Webster's, coal was spelled "col" in Middle English (English between the Norman Conquest and Shakespeare). If you know someone with the family name "Collier", one or more of their ancestors were British coal miners.
 

Right.  When coal was still mined in the UK, the mines and facilities were called "collieries."

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, May 18, 2016 2:19 PM

Cotton Belt MP104
This “story” (Roman chariot to Thiokol boosters) I had seen before, but like the tomikawaTT explanation. What concerned me was, what is a colliery? As the “mine cart gauge” would HINT at what a colliery is ……I had to look it up to see: a coal mine and the buildings and equipment associated with it……why “don’t da word got an “A” in it”????....is coal called COLL in England?
 

 
According to Webster's, coal was spelled "col" in Middle English (English between the Norman Conquest and Shakespeare). If you know someone with the family name "Collier", one or more of their ancestors were British coal miners.
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Posted by Falcon48 on Monday, May 16, 2016 8:56 PM

CMStPnP

The original post is a myth and has zero to do with railway gauge.    It ignores the development of railways in this and other countries where railways were first built in multiple gauge sizes and some even had wooden vs iron rails, etc.     I believe standard guage was settled on for the purpose of interchanging rail cars and cargo and the gauge that was selected was the most common size in use at the time although on this last point I am not sure how the standard gauge was selected.    Certainly had nothing to do with the Romans or horses for that matter.

 

One of the best discussions of the origins of standard gauge and why it came to be dominant in Britain and the U.S. is in George Hilton's "American Narrow Gauge Railroads",   see pp.3-6 and 24-32.  This is a monumental and authoritative work that's a "must read" for anyone who wants to understand the business of 19th century railroading (not just narrow gauges).  Your comments are generally consistent with Hilton's conclusions.    

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Posted by wanswheel on Monday, May 9, 2016 11:10 AM

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, May 9, 2016 7:24 AM

The statue of Washington currently being discussed was commissioned by Congress, although the style was left up to the sculptor.  When the statue was unveiled, the esteemed Members Of Congress sought to have it blown up, until the parliamentarian ruled that such a practice was not permitted.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:37 PM

Deggesty, I didn't think anyone would mind, as I said you could walk right up to it (it was in the foyer of Independence Hall at the time, but I'm sure you know that) and just about everyone was touching it.

Besides, before I rapped it I made sure no-one was looking!

It WAS a thrill, let me tell you! 

By the way, here's something everyone can try if you get the chance.  If you ever visit a Civil War or Revolutionary War site and there's any bronze artillery pieces on outdoor display, take a stick or something hard plastic like a pen and rap one of those cannons on the muzzle.  It'll ring like a bell too!  Back in those days that was one way the inspectors would check for the soundness of the casting.

Only works on bronze guns though.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, May 8, 2016 7:09 PM

To Firelock:I also had an opportunity to "ring" the Liberty Bell--and restrained myself lest someone wring my neck for touching it.

To Carl: I thought no one was now allowed to walk up to the top of the Washington Monument--I rode the elevator up and walked down in 1969 .

 

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, May 8, 2016 4:21 PM

Firelock76
I imagine the days of wandering through the building un-escorted are LONG gone.

I wandered around the capitol for a bit on a whirlwind trip to DC in early 1970 - all by myself.  Climbed all 444(?) steps to the to the top of the Washington Monument (the elevator was being used for some sort of movie shoot), and zipped through all three halls of the Smithsonian on that visit, too.  

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, May 8, 2016 3:32 PM

I haven't been to the Capitol in a long time, at least since the 70's, and I imagine the days of wandering through the building un-escorted are LONG gone.

I've seen that "what the hell..." statue of Washington myself, I think it's in the Smithsonian now, but still in a basement gallery.

Talk about changes, when I first saw the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia in the late 60's you could walk right up to it and touch it.  No more, it's in it's own pavilion next to Independence Hall and roped off, don't even THINK of touching it now!

I even got to ring the Bell after a fashion.  I gave the edge a slight rap with my knuckles with my ear close to it.  "BONGGGGGG..." Had a nice tone to it, even with the crack.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, May 8, 2016 2:23 PM

As to that statue of George Washington, I have seen it--buried in the depths of the Capitol: I saw it when it was possible to wander around inside the building all by oneself, without benefit of a guide. I also saw the bier that held President Lincoln's body (I understand that it is still used from time to time), and I rode both Senate subways. The only time anyone said anything to me was when I was told to sit down in the visitors' gallery in the House of Representatives.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, May 8, 2016 1:54 PM

"Good enough for the Romans" may have been a more pervasive philosphy 200 years ago than you might suspect.

Back in those days if you went to college or a university, and remember only the elites went to college, you got an education that was heavy on classical studies, i.e. ancient Greece and especially ancient Rome, how brilliant and advanced they were and how worthy of emulation.  You learned their histories and also their languages.  I can't help but think this must have had some effect on decision making at the time, among other things like art and architecture.  Ever see that ridiculous statue of George Washington in a Roman toga? 

Hey, around the time of the Civil War someone thought it'd be cool to outfit artillerymen with a short sword that was almost a dead-ringer for a Roman gladius.  BOTH the Union and Confederate armies!

Those cannon-cockers who got them didn't think they were so cool, they "lost" them as soon as they could get their hands on a Colt or Remington revolver!

As an aside, when General Lee became president of Washington College after the war he scrapped most of the classical curriculum and replaced it with practical subjects like engineering, mathematics, agriculture and the various sciences, things the students could use to rebuilt the war-ravaged South.

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, May 8, 2016 1:42 PM

CMStPnP
The original post is a myth and has zero to do with railway gauge.

Yeah - but it's fun...  Big Smile

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, May 8, 2016 11:33 AM

The original post is a myth and has zero to do with railway gauge.    It ignores the development of railways in this and other countries where railways were first built in multiple gauge sizes and some even had wooden vs iron rails, etc.     I believe standard guage was settled on for the purpose of interchanging rail cars and cargo and the gauge that was selected was the most common size in use at the time although on this last point I am not sure how the standard gauge was selected.    Certainly had nothing to do with the Romans or horses for that matter.

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Posted by BR60103 on Saturday, May 7, 2016 8:59 PM

A post by Trevor Hodge, classical scholar and rail enthusiast

 

http://www.grijalvo.com/A_Trevor_Hodge/Roman_roads_gauge.htm

 

 

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Posted by Cotton Belt MP104 on Thursday, May 5, 2016 7:24 PM
to one and all CHECK this OUT http://www.thejournal.co.uk/news/north-east-news/river-tyne-200-year-old-5325105 thanks to richg1998 for the "find" endmrw0505161923
The ONE the ONLY/ Paragould, Arkansas/ Est. 1883 / formerly called The Crossing/ a portmanteau/ JW Paramore (Cotton Belt RR) Jay Gould (MoPac)/crossed at our town/ None other, NOWHERE in the world
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Posted by BOB WITHORN on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 8:12 AM
So it was kind-a like we do outdoor model RRs. Sort of 22.5:1 or 25:1 or 32:1 or something. I figure it was giant aliens that set the guage.
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Posted by 54light15 on Monday, April 18, 2016 8:55 AM

Insultedhay Iay amhay. Inhay Odayay Ihay otewray. (now if I could only do it with a Scottish accent, I'd be all set.) 

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Posted by RME on Saturday, April 16, 2016 10:43 AM

54light15
All that latin talk ust-jay ire-tays ee-may out-hay.

Opstay owingshay usyay utway ayay igpay ouyay areyay.  (use W's if so inclined...)

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Posted by RME on Saturday, April 16, 2016 10:40 AM

Semper Vaporo
Wheels originally were like a pulley with a groove around the middle of the tread, (or flanges on both sides) to fit on the logs used as rails. That "track" was "60 inches on center".

No, originally wheels were ... well, flat wagon wheels, like any other road-vehicle wheels, and the flanges were on the flat 'plateways' that were laid to provide a smooth and level surface just under the (relatively thin) treads of those wheels.

Whether it would make sense to measure the 'gauge' of a plateway anywhere except between the external 'flange' faces -- which, after all, is the control dimension of effective 'gauge' in that application -- would be up to whoever was installing or managing a system at a particular colliery or wherever, and I do not have any hard information on specifics.  (I think there is at least one paper in the Transactions of the Newcomen Society that takes this subject up, though.)

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Saturday, April 16, 2016 10:17 AM

RME
 
tomikawaTT
So, why was that colliery using that gauge? GOOD question.

When you shift the flanges to the inside of the wheels, with clearance, and measure over those to get gauge, it's not as surprising that you get an odd fraction.

The two-horse-chariot is a fun meme, but it shouldn't be thought of as actual industrial history.

Most anything else with some sort of spacing is measured "Center to Center" (studs in a wall are usually "16-inch on center").

Wheels originally were like a pully with a groove around the middle of the tread, (or flanges on both sides) to fit on the logs used as rails.  That "track" was "60 inches on center".

When it was understood that the outside flanges were a major cause of derailments if the wheels are rigid to one axle, they were removed and then the only measurement of any meaning was the "gauge" (or inside of rail to inside of rail).  Thus the dimention was 4' 8.5".

 

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, April 16, 2016 10:12 AM

Ja, genau!

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Posted by 54light15 on Saturday, April 16, 2016 9:16 AM

All that latin talk ust-jay ire-tays ee-may out-hay.

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Posted by Cotton Belt MP104 on Friday, April 15, 2016 10:24 PM
This “story” (Roman chariot to Thiokol boosters) I had seen before, but like the tomikawaTT explanation. What concerned me was, what is a colliery? As the “mine cart gauge” would HINT at what a colliery is ……I had to look it up to see: a coal mine and the buildings and equipment associated with it……why “don’t da word got an “A” in it”????....is coal called COLL in England?
The ONE the ONLY/ Paragould, Arkansas/ Est. 1883 / formerly called The Crossing/ a portmanteau/ JW Paramore (Cotton Belt RR) Jay Gould (MoPac)/crossed at our town/ None other, NOWHERE in the world

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